From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 1 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 001 In this issue: eskrima: Gilbey/Smith's nonsense. eskrima: Hock Hochheim eskrima: Sharpened nails eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 eskrima: parkinson's/kk/drunken/chinese new yr/jailhouse rock/movie trivia eskrima: longnails eskrima: Jailhouse Rock eskrima: Jailhouse Rock eskrima: Re: Gehagen misquote eskrima: fma insrtuctors eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 eskrima: gathering moss eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 eskrima: FMA and Trapping Re: eskrima: Hock Hochheim .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:40:28 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Gilbey/Smith's nonsense. >I saw the passage in Gilbey/Smith's book too. That demo did not go down like >that. I was standing next to Guru Dan, Larry Hartsell, and Tim Tackett at the >'87 Smokey Mountain Camp. Hartsell introduced Tim Gehagen to Dan. Tim showed >Dan the near side grapevine and far side headlock from the all-fours position. >He gave a lecture on wrestling too. That passage in the book is BS. Of course it's horseshit and splinters. Those books were a collection of half-truths, traveller's tales, and "do you think they're stupid enough to swallow THAT?!?". Smith is the ostensible writer, but I have also been told by Usually Reliable Sources(tm) that a lot of others put their own stuff into the mix. There seems to have been just enough plausible stuff in there to keep the casual reader from putting the book back on the shelf. ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:10:35 EST Subject: eskrima: Hock Hochheim Greetings, I was curious if anyone on this list has knowledge of Hock Hochheim and his books, videos, seminars, organizations, etc. I know little about him, but have seen the recent article he wrote on the 10 sins of knife fighting in several magazines. It seemed as though he took a number of "cheap shots" at some of the other knife fighting instructors out there. (one of whom is a friend of mine) Anyone have any pros or cons to share. I'd just like to know more about him and his organizations. Thanks, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:13:14 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Sharpened nails At 07:30 PM 12/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >From: >Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 20:40:40 EST >Subject: eskrima: Re: thumbnail > >Tenrec writes; > ><< > The long, hardened and sharpened thumbnail is still popular in Metro > Manila, mainly among the "street boys": jeepney barkers, "istambays", > "rugby boys", etc. > >> > >So what's in the stuff they use to harden their nail(s)? > >Regards, >Travis Sharpened nails can be found in legends and modern days in china. I've read of people who like to keep the nails of the index and middle finger long and sharp. They wear some kind of guard to keep from breaking the nails. Diet. Thats what makes them hard. Augument your diet with dulse, and spirulina. Gelatines capsules make them hard too. Thumbnail sounds interesting. The unfortunate part of having long nails on your other fingers is you cant really form a fist that good. It digs into your skin. There were guys in china that would make a concoction with venom in it. You take it daily and when you want to fight, just lick your fingernails and scratch your opponent. There would be enough in your bodily fluids to cause some harm to anyone you happen to scratch. Imagine all that venom in your body fluids. Use your imagination, but that could make ones life a living hell. Turiyan ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:12:07 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 In a message dated 98-12-30 19:32:45 EST, you write: << This is such an intersting concept--can we get more on this? For footholds we're looking at, what, knee, pubic bridge (wings of the pelvic girdle?), shoulders/chest/throat/neck, head, back? >> Yep, and anything else tender that you can think of stepping on or grab onto to hoist yourself up. >I'm asking before experimenting...this sounds like something difficult to drill safely. (Note I say "drill".) Drill? Drill? Man all you had to do to get loads of practice with this technique was to walk into any bathroom in my old highschool. Marc Animal MacYoung ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:15:36 -0500 Subject: eskrima: parkinson's/kk/drunken/chinese new yr/jailhouse rock/movie trivia Holiday greetings to one and all, Due to the newborn baby and work, I've been catching up with issues of ED. On Parkinson's disease (V5 #395): Bill Lowery wrote that Parkinson's is caused by a drop in serotonin and not getting repeated hits to the head. Hello Bill, is it just me or is it when Parkinson's is mentioned, most people have a knee-jerk reaction and say, "He was into boxing?" Maybe people who are genetically pre-disposed to getting Parkinson's somehow end up boxing What are the odds? I do not know the percentage of people suffering from Parkinson's who are and are not boxers, but from what I've read and heard, it seems there is some link between getting hit in the head and Parkinson's. I do not think that the actor Michael J. Fox has been getting hit in the head and from what you posted, it seems I stand corrected. On Krabi Krabong q. from Joe/Japan: Hello Joe, I think the only commercially available video on Thai weapons is distributed exclusively through NYC's BLT Supplies. At least until the Dog Brothers come out with their second series whenever that is ;-) Not sure if this vid's content qualifies as KK, maybe Salty Dog or anyone who has seen the vid can comment? Muay Thai Vol V 92015 Thai Knives & Pole Fighting Techniques Demonstration 42 mins - -Thai Knife Praying Ceremony - -Thai Pole Praying Ceremony - -Thai Knife vs. Knife Ceremony - -Thai Double Knives vs. Knife Demonstration - -Thai Pole Vs. Pole Demonstration - -Thai Knives Group Fighting Techniques Demonstration I believe it's $34.95 + s/h. BLT Supplies Inc. 77 Mulberry St NY, NY 10013 USA Tel (212) 732-8388 Fax (212) 385-2860 email: BLTSUPPLY1@aol.com On the hiding your art/drunken style & "we have that too" threads (various recent issues): Please correct me if I'm wrong. One of my buddies who was learning Fu Jow from Wai Hong/NYC at the time told me there was no such thing as Drunken Style. Suddenly after Jackie Chan's movie DRUNKEN MASTER came out circa 1977, and it was a big hit, most of the CMA styles said, "We have that too" If what he said is true, life does imitate art. However, he has been known to bull$hit me once in awhile. I know wushu is now the official martial art of China and that one of the forms for competition is drunken style, but can anyone verify that Drunken style existed before Jackie's movie and wushu competition? Mik wrote in V5 #418: Happy Western New Year to all. Good Health, Long Life, Good Fortune. On to the year of the Hare/Rabbit (in February). FYI, Feb. 16 to be exact. David Cabana wrote in V5 #419 >Hi from one of the lurkers. I have a question about something I read on >the list: > >The term "Jailhouse Rock" seems to be used to describe some system of >fighting. Can Tom or anyone else provide some details about it? > >Thanks, >David Cabana >cabana@flinet.com Hello David, I believe I read in one of the IKF special mags of MA around the world or some similar title that Dennis Newsome was an authority in Jailhouse Rock. If I recall correctly, it was mainly using elbows and knees and many inmates know it. I have the mag and have to dig it up. Perhaps Ted "The Fighting Old Man" Truscott can look it up in his database and provide more info. On Dave Huang's sidenote to Zatoichi thread in V5 #419: >A Zatoichi sidenote: In Chinese Connection, one of Sigung's Japanese >opponents (I think the leader of the Japanese school or his second in >command) was the primary stuntman for Zatoichi (doing all the stunt >fighting and stuff). > >There is one episode of Zatoichi whwere he meets Toshiro Mifune as >Yojimbo. Bugei TRading Company has it I believe as well as others. Hello Dave, Which reminds me, I have to re-up my membership at Kim's Video and rent out Zatoichi meets Yojimbo and the rest of the series plus Alain Delon in LE SAMOURAI and BORSALINO. One of the 2 guys who goes to grab BL when he goes to return the Sick Man of Asia sign in Chinese Connection is Lam Ching Ying who passed away recently was best known later as One Eyebrow Priest or the Taoist Ghostbuster. He was a "care-lair-fare" (or Cantonese slang for extra). Another extra is John Liang Chia Ren who was in the 70's Shaw Bros. movies and played WCK's Leung Jan in WARRIORS TWO (Samo Hung directed). Of course, another famous extra in BL's ENTER THE DRAGON was Jackie Chan and Samo himself. Ray Terry wrote: >Last issue of 1998. See ya next year... > >:) And I was hoping to make it before the New Year :-( Happy New Year all! May your resolutions come true and the New Year be better than the last!! Very best, Hy bakayaru@pipeline.com ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:38:31 +0000 Subject: eskrima: longnails Travis wrote: >Manila, mainly among the "street boys": jeepney barkers, "istambays", "rugby boys", etc. >> >So what's in the stuff they use to harden their nail(s)? Sorry, someone else posted the info on the solution to harden the nails...as far as I have been told, the contemporary nail-growers simply grow them and file them to a sharp edge... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:37:27 EST Subject: eskrima: Jailhouse Rock I heard this term used by Dennis Newsome who was a co-trainer of Mel Gibson and Gary Busey on the first Lethal Weapon. Obviously the other was Rorion. The third was Newsomes friend, a part time musician and actor who does Capoeira, his name escapes me. Newsome studies the black cultural arts,...Capoeira, Jailhouse Rock, and an African style called Re-Efi-Eri -Esi, or something like that. It looked like silat actually. You can see some photo's in Unique Publications' Martial Arts of the World. I have know idea how Newsome studied or put together these prison styles and African styles. I think he lives in San Diego. Tom Furman----tcsno@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:19:35 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Jailhouse Rock What little I know of Jailhouse Rock (purely "intellectual") may not be accurate, but I understand it as being based on what we can do if handcufffed or in irons (i.e., including the legs). Such a situation limits our available weapons to no-nonsense elbow/knee/headbutt-oriented fighting. Close-quarters stuff. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:47:55 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Gehagen misquote In a message dated 12/30/98 7:35:40 PM, you wrote: <> Thanks for setting this matter straight Tom. It reminded me of a seminar Guro Inosanto did in 1990 where he was approached by a middle aged Filipino instructor who was a guest of a guest after the seminar. He began to show a locking sequence to Guro Inosanto... Guro Inosanto just let the man show him what he was so eager to display and then thanked him for sharing this "secret" technique. Well, it just so happens that Guro was TEACHING that same identical sequence earlier that day at the seminar (which the Filipino instructor did not witness). To save the man some embarassment and also to possibly discover something new to add to the technique- Guro Inosanto graciously went along with the whole demo. Hopefully, this same man isn't going around being quoted in some future book about how he too tied up Guro Inosanto in knots. That whole experience also taught me that Guro Inosanto teaches by example as well. - --Rafael-- ------------------------------ From: spudchows@webtv.net (michael cole) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:49:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: fma insrtuctors fma/eskrima /instructors M.L. COLE 155 rutherford drive vacaville, ca. 95687-6423 ------------------------------ From: "Carl Fung" Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:54:45 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 >>This is my what I was taught too. Too many people think they can seek >>traps and then hit. If you are trapping you are not hitting! > >>Carl > >perhaps I misunderstand, but aren't you supposed to be trapping and hitting >at the same time, using one hand to trap the opponent's two, so you have >the free hand to hit with on the samt beat, rather than a trap then hit, >using 1 2 count? > >...assuming that we're talking within a Wing Chun rather than a JunFan >context, where the latter often uses front/rear hand positions,such that >a simultaneous attack and defence is not possible; > >regards, >TC Kwan > No TC and yes TC. Trapping is like disarming a stick. From the JKD/JunFan position you "opertunistically" remove obstructions in your line of attack via multiple methodologies, one method being trapping. If the obstruction is not there you hit. If the obstruction is there you may trap and hit or you may trap and hit simultaliously, or you may parry, trap and hit, or you may kick, trap, and hit etc... He is covering or attacking on multiple lines and you have to be flexible to deal with it on multiple lines. WC and JunFan hit the same way from what I understand in that the flat centerline control of WC does not put more tools into play versus the strong side forward stance of JunFan. The same bodymechanis in the punch the trap is the same. It is the "moveable base" that is different. This strong side forward stance is a "phase one" referrence point. Most students of JunFan never get beyond phase one JunFan before they find that the concepts of JKD are more powerful and the true essence of the art and that JunFan is a traditional bridge to the revelation that is JKD. These same students find it easier to progress more quickly in combat skills from the Boxing/kickboxing neucleus than from the JunFan neucleus. It is the more advanced student who later returns to the roots of JunFan to pick from it intricate pieces of bodymechanics that help you to develop your flow around a body. My personal feeling in most MA is that first you "do it" like a monkey, then you understand it much later then you do it with your own personality. When you have done that you have a personal fighting system. That is the goal in combative MA. carl ------------------------------ From: "G. Michael Zimmer" Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:12:30 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 > ------------------------------ > > From: David Cabana > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:15:00 -0500 > Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #418 > > The term "Jailhouse Rock" seems to be used to describe some system of > fighting. Can Tom or anyone else provide some details about it? > > Thanks, > David Cabana > cabana@flinet.com There was an article in Black Belt or one of those magazines about 10 years ago on jailhouse rock. I did not know what to make of it at the time. It seemed to involve lots of elbows, and holding the fists up near the temple, with the arms splayed sideways. This was the impression that I got from the pictures. Curiously, this wqs the way that street hoods in Ontario near Detroit fought when I was a kid. I don't know how well it worked, but it looks very open to me in retrospect. Regards G. Michael Zimmer ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 08:51:36 -0800 Subject: eskrima: gathering moss Yip yip: > >On October 18, 1587 disembarking from the Manila Galleon on this > >particular shore was a landing party consisting of a cadre of Spanish > >soldiers, one Catholic priest and eight "Luzones Indios." > > Thanks, David, for looking up the details. As for any other meaning of > the word "Moro", the Spanish word for "rock" is "roca". I always thought that the word for rock was "piedra"; perhaps "roca" is a "spanglish-ism"? There are many words that transfer directly between Spanish and English, some are spanglish and some that only seem to. A "carro" can be a car, but a "sparquia" is a spanglishism for a spark plug, and properly is a "bujia". And if you say "puto" for the first person conjugation of the verb "to put", (which in Spanish verbs is done by putting the letter "o" on the end of the root of the verb) you are going to excite a lot of ribald commentary. Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:14:41 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #419 A Howl etc: > The Mike Hess I know who studies kali did not fight in any NHB fights but did > fight Paul Vizzio years ago. I believe his older brother is Joe Hess. Last I > heard he had a school in Virginia. > - --Rafael-- Just a brief personal note. Paul Vizzio is the man who got me started in martial arts. My last year of law school I saw him teaching a class (Fu Jow Pai Kung Fu-- a tiger claw system found only in the NYC area) in the gym at Columbia. At the time he was the PKA Lightweight Champion and soon became the PKA World Champion. There was a tremendous impeccability to the man and how he ran his classes. Out of 36 or so who began the class, only 6 were there at the end of the term. To be one of the six I had to give up smoking. Around three years ago I saw him fight on a PPV (Dennis Alexio was the headliner). He was in his early forties and as muscular, ripped, and fit as he was when I met him in the spring of 19981. Still fighting that PKA stuff, but doing it oh-so-well and technically. Woof, Crafty PS: At the time I chose to take Sifu Vizzio's class, there was also a class being taught by some guy with sticks. I passed up on it saying to myself "Eh, what would they do if they didn't have their sticks with them?". Turns out it was Tom Bisio , , , , , PPS: And in response to inquiry, Morro answers to his new name just fine, and is sleeping at my feet as I type this. ------------------------------ From: Scott Wiggins Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:51:15 +0000 Subject: eskrima: FMA and Trapping In message <199812300026.TAA21455@hpwsrt>, eskrima-digest- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes >From: Carl Fung >Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 12:48:52 -0800 >Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V5 #417 > >> Yip yip: >> >> I'm on my way out the door to BJJ, so I'll be unusually brief. Traps are >> done when the path to hitting is not open. Combinations which are >> elaborate in comparison to what is actually done are practiced so that one >> develops a sense of flow, so that one can keep one's run rolling in real >> time. > >This is my what I was taught too. Too many people think they can seek >traps and then hit. If you are trapping you are not hitting! Remember >that the archtype trap as in WC does this from centerline control. >Thus you are more likely to find an obstruction. Remember in SiGung's >breakdown of attack that HIA (hand immobilization) is only one kind of >attack. So if the centerline is obstructed there is no reason not to >take a SAA (single angular attack) for example. If the opertunity >arises you take the trap. > >Carl I have always been taught in my classes that you treat traps and locks with the same regard, an opportunistic thing that may or may not be present. You don't look for them but can exploit them if the opportunity is there. If you get my drift. Scott Wiggins Scott@home-cov.demon.co.uk http://www.home-cov.demon.co.uk/index.htm ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:09:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Hock Hochheim > sins of knife fighting in several magazines. It seemed as though he took a > number of "cheap shots" at some of the other knife fighting instructors out > there. (one of whom is a friend of mine) Yes, I noticed the same thing... - -- Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 ************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.