From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #2 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 3 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 002 In this issue: eskrima: Drunken style eskrima: Hock Hochheim eskrima: FMA in 1999 eskrima: Hock eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 eskrima: Re: Hock Hochheim eskrima: jailhouse rock eskrima: Re:vizzio eskrima: Presas-Gyi Seminar Re: eskrima: Hock eskrima: MA and Shoulder Holsters? eskrima: Drunken Yo-Yos on Lunar New Year's Day eskrima: Re: Parkinsons and Boxing eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 eskrima: Hock Hockheim eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 eskrima: Stick-Street & Slam Seminar eskrima: Sharp teeth eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 15:44:49 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Drunken style There *is* a drunken style. I'm puzzled as to why anyone would make a statement like this. The _Drunken immortals of god_ are liken to parables of jesus. Drunken is the oldest art to have what you would call wrestling moves. Defense against the guard, the bridge, ect. Not all those moves are meant to be done standing. Mizong or lost track style is supposed to have lost drunken forms. Hard to say because the style has a lost track... Normal footwork in a water margin (marsh) cant be too easy. :) Is your fu jow friend chinese? And did he hear this from ng wai hong himself? Turiyan ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:11:55 EST Subject: eskrima: Hock Hochheim I've spoken with Mr. Hochheim only a couple times, but he's been very friendly and helpful. I tend to dismiss his "cheap shots" at other knife fighting instructors as merely criticisms. I believe he is simply confident in what he teaches. His training with blades are so prominant in his system that they ARE the bulk of what he teaches. Just check out his web page at americanknifefighters.com Just a web searcher ------------------------------ From: "Richard Killick" Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 21:21:33 -0000 Subject: eskrima: FMA in 1999 Happy New year to all, I have been thinking a lot lately about the future of FMA. It seems that a lot of people who train in empty hand systems are cross training and are now using a blend. That's fine by me,it makes sense to be able to fight in all ranges and take advantage of other systems training methods etc. I wonder if, in the near future we will just have blends of arts and not individual styles. Some styles with a sporting context, such as BBJ and Thai Boxing may stay the same but over all people seem to be cross training for self defence. I wonder where it leaves people like us who train in FMA. We claim to have a rounded system containing weapons, empty hands, locking and grappling etc. But most people just teach the FMA's as an add on to their "base" empty hands system. To look at it from a different angle, I wonder if the FMA's will "merge" and we will all take on different bits of other peoples (FMA) styles in to blend. I realise this has happened in the past but lately with more exposure to different FMA's the pace of blending seems to be speeding up. Will we ever see a time when there is not so much emphasis on style but the intended goal. Will people look at this list in fifty years from now and see when all the FMA's merged or will it be that we merge with BJJ and Muay Thai and maybe an internal art and just become the martial arts, with the only difference between schools being the blend preference of the head instructor. Has this always been the case? I think barring some strange new law banning stick fighting, the next generation are going to have huge advantages over us. I wrote this with a major hang over, so if it does not make sense sorry! I hope you can understand my points/questions? Kind Regards Richard Killick. ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:52:42 EST Subject: eskrima: Hock Actually the comments made by Hock Hockheim made alot of sense. Lots of untrained folks have overcome knife attacks, etc. He was a former MP, then street cop and now Private Eye. He testifies on knife attacks. I think he makes REAL good sense.--Tom Furman---tcsno@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Rich Parsons Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 16:52:00 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 Hi All, > > ------------------------------ > > From: > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:15:36 -0500 > Subject: eskrima: parkinson's/kk/drunken/chinese new yr/jailhouse rock/movie trivia > > > Happy Western New Year to all. > Good Health, Long Life, Good Fortune. > On to the year of the Hare/Rabbit (in February). > > FYI, Feb. 16 to be exact. My data shows 2/6/99 as the new year? Hmmm wondering which it is. I celebrate the new year 1/1/ for the western, 1/14 for the 13 days lost in the switch from the Julian to the Gregorian Calendars, The Chinese New Year, The Ides of March and Old Roman Holiday/New Year, the Spring Equinox, and April FIrst. The HEathens in England celebrated the new year on 4/1 and all the good Christains just laughed and said any Fool knows that the new year is 1/1, so the day became known as Fools Day. The Jist is I celevrate to celebrate, any excuse to celebrate :~) FYI Rich sindar@ameritech.net > > > Happy New Year all! May your resolutions come true and the New Year be > better than the last!! > > Very best, > > Hy > bakayaru@pipeline.com > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:01:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Hock Hochheim Alain and Ray were wondering: >I was curious if anyone on this list has knowledge of Hock Hochheim and his >books, videos, seminars, organizations, etc. > >I know little about him, but have seen the recent article he wrote on the 10 >sins of knife fighting in several magazines. It seemed as though he took a >number of "cheap shots" at some of the other knife fighting instructors out >there. (one of whom is a friend of mine) > >Anyone have any pros or cons to share. I'd just like to know more about him >and his organizations. I've studied with Hock, corresponded with him and found him to be a very approachable, sincere teacher. His approach, a synthesis of military, police and martial arts experience that puts combat first and systems second, contains a lot of FMA and JKD principles. I think he'd be at a loss if accused of taking 'cheap shots' at other instructors, because he tends to focus on practice/methods/results and not on personality. I'm not sure what you guys considered 'cheap shots', so I don't know what you're responding to. I'd much rather discuss where you think the '10 myths' article was wrong, or misguided or missing key information. His "Knife Fighting Encyclopedia" is a treasure trove of information, approaches, practice methods. He'll take a simple 'X' or figure 8 cutting pattern and work it as slashes, cuts, hacks, and stabs. Then you'll do it with a saber grip, fencer's grip, reverse grip,then left and right handed. Do it in the air, against a heavy bag, cut against cardboard boxes, or carpeting roll tubes. Do it on one knee, on the ground, on your back. And so on. His "Dos Manos" system is a great approach to two-handed use of a stick, riot baton, shotgun or rifle. Again, I'd rather hear more substance about what you disagreed with in the '10 myths' article. Also, if you have some other real issue, contact him directly at HockHoch@aol.com. Scott Kinney Scott Kinney ------------------------------ From: Jay_Swan@flannet.middlebury.edu (Jay Swan) Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:53:19 -0500 Subject: eskrima: jailhouse rock >I believe I read in one of the IKF special mags of MA around the world or >some similar title that Dennis Newsome was an authority in Jailhouse Rock. >If I recall correctly, it was mainly using elbows and knees and many >inmates know it. I have the mag and have to dig it up. Perhaps Ted "The >Fighting Old Man" Truscott can look it up in his database and provide more >info. If you could find the magazine article, I too would be greatly interested in getting a copy of it. The only reference I've seen to this is in John Steven Soet's book "Martial Arts Around the World", which provides a few pictures but little useful information. Jay ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 17:58:12 EST Subject: eskrima: Re:vizzio <> Hess took pride in stating that he was the only one who ever knocked Vizzio down in a title fight- he still lost though. Vizzio was one of the few fighters who I felt actually did that PKA stuff to its full potential, many fighters tended to be second level boxers who learned some front kicks, but Vizzio fought with a beautiful balanced attack of hands and feet. Btw, I stand corrected on Mike Hess being the brother of Joe, I've been informed he is a cousin of the Karate hall of famer. - --Rafael-- ------------------------------ From: "Timothy Hartman" Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 18:49:50 EST Subject: eskrima: Presas-Gyi Seminar Happy New Year, I am happy to announce that Grand Masters Remy Presas and Dr. Gyi will be teaching a joint seminar for the first time ever.The topics to be covered are: Modern Arnis - stick trapping,dumog,& obstruction removal. Bando - open hand and stick techniques from the Boar system. This seminar will be held in Buffalo NY area.The seminar site is 5 minutes any from a major shopping center,10 minutes any from Canada, and 30 minutes any from Niagara Falls.This may prove useful information if you want to bring family members or loved ones. This seminar will be held at: Maryvale Continuing Ed. Bldg. 777 Maryvale Drive Cheektowoga New York March 13th 1999 1pm to 6pm $60 by March 5th $75 after March 5th Canadian inquire about special rates do to poor exchange rates. Group rates are available. For more information and registration contact us at: The Western New York Institute of Martial Arts PO Box 116 West Seneca,New York 14224 716-675-0899 modernarnis@hotmail.com Punog-Guro Timothy J.Hartman Can-Am Director I.M.A.F E-mail modernarnis@hotmail.com Federation http://members.tripod.com/~IMAF_CANAM ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 11:31:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Hock > Actually the comments made by Hock Hockheim made alot of sense. Lots of > untrained folks have overcome knife attacks, etc. He was a former MP, then > street cop and now Private Eye. He testifies on knife attacks. I think he > makes REAL good sense.--Tom Furman---tcsno@aol.com seems like he spends too much time time trying to impress you with his past jobs and not enough impressing you with useful insights. Yes? No? - -- Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Nate Corley" Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 16:06:49 -0800 Subject: eskrima: MA and Shoulder Holsters? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE35A0.BCE02C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recently while thumbing through an old gun magazine, I ran across an = article regarding concealed carry holsters. The author states that = "shoulder holsters have fallen out of favor with many martial artists, = and will not be covered here.." Does anyone have an idea why? Respond = in private email if this subject has been covered, or is inappropriate = for the FMA list. I assume many of us who train also own or = carry firearms. Regards, Nate (natecorley@transport.com) - ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE35A0.BCE02C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Recently while thumbing through an old gun magazine, = I ran=20 across an article regarding concealed carry holsters.  The author = states=20 that "shoulder holsters have fallen out of favor with many martial = artists,=20 and will not be covered here.."  Does anyone have an idea = why? =20 Respond in private email if this subject has been covered, or is = inappropriate=20 for the FMA list.  I assume many of us who train also = <legally> own=20 or carry firearms.
Regards, Nate
(natecorley@transport.com)
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BE35A0.BCE02C00-- ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 19:08:54 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Drunken Yo-Yos on Lunar New Year's Day Re: yo-yo ... Website at www.spintastics.com has a history page which puts the point of origin in China, from which it travelled to Inida, Greece and the Phillipines. Same source states that the oldest intact yo-yo was from Greece, dated 550 B.C. I wouldn't be surprised if the search for origins took us back to Africa. > Bill Lowery wrote that Parkinson's is caused by a drop in serotonin and not > getting repeated hits to the head. > > Hello Bill, is it just me or is it when Parkinson's is mentioned, most > people have a knee-jerk reaction and say, "He was into boxing?" Maybe > people who are genetically pre-disposed to getting Parkinson's somehow end > up boxing What are the odds? > There are apparently multiple pathological pathways to what the meds call Parkinson's Disease, including genetic and dietary links. For example, a possible aluminum effect (toxic: t'row out dem aluminum pots and pans pals, dey'll getcha) and increased amyloid deposits in the brain (possibly related to aluminum ingestion). A little reasoning says that the drop in serotonin is a symptom of something closer to the cause ... changes in neurotransmitter levels are gonna be secondary to something else ... what causes the serotonin to drop? I'll defer to any pathologists on board and say no more :-) H'mm, maybe repeated trauma could set off a chain of events which results in increased amyloid deposits (scarring???). Got me curious here, time to get down with ye old clinical pathology texts ... > However, he has been known > to bull$hit me once in awhile. I know wushu is now the official martial art > of China and that one of the forms for competition is drunken style, but > can anyone verify that Drunken style existed before Jackie's movie and > wushu competition? > I don't know if your friend's intent was to B.S. you, but Drunken technique is legit and nothing new. Yes, it existed before Chan's movie. My first CMA training was in a system which includes drunken style work. The first short staff/stick form in Tian Shan Pai is from a "drunken" style. Tian Shan Pai used to be Taiwan-based (Grandmaster now in Towson, MD), so whatever elements of Drunken Style(s) it contains predate the previous Grandmaster's tour with Chiang Kai-Shek, perhaps all the way back to its formulator 35 generations ago. Recent emigres from the Shaolin Temple in PRC are releasing films which include authentic Shaolin Drunken Style work. No disrespect to anyone intended, but for someone to say that Drunken Style is anything but legit reminds me of a Korean master who once told me emphatically that "Dere eess - -no-such-theeng- as Showleen TEMPLE!" I say OK, it's your world Kee-moe-sah-bay, I'll just get back to my Drunken Fruzen Gladjen here, make like a jet and sky on outta here... > Happy Western New Year to all. > Good Health, Long Life, Good Fortune. > On to the year of the Hare/Rabbit (in February). > > FYI, Feb. 16 to be exact. > Muchas gracias pal, I wasn't gonna worry about that until Feb 15th ;-) Good Health, Long Life, Good Fortune ...from a child of the Hare/Rabbit's Year. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 00:24:39 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Parkinsons and Boxing I'm a physical therapist here in New York...specialize in geriatrics...in my own personal experience, have seen 2 gentlemen under the age of 70 with very severe Parkinsons disease...these fellows were former boxers, and the degree of their illnesses were highly unusual and advanced for their age, in addition to the fact that apparently, the signs and symptoms began appearing way, way earlier than normal. Physicians around here, do believe that there is a link from repeated trauma and Parkinsons. Jeff Chung/NY In a message dated 1/1/99 4:10:59 PM, you wrote: >I do not know the percentage of people suffering from Parkinson's who are >and are not boxers, but from what I've read and heard, it seems there is >some link between getting hit in the head and Parkinson's. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 12:49:46 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 In a message dated 99-01-01 15:10:18 EST, you write: << Sharpened nails can be found in legends and modern days in china. >> Gee does this mean I'm a legend in my own mind? :D I habitually wear both pinky and thumb nails not only long, but shaped into a slight point. Not real long, usually less than a quarter of an inch. Even then they break (like when I put a new roof on the house they went bye bye). The nails serve not so much as a weapon but an extra. Extra annoyance, extra pain, extra grip and extra cutting surface. When I am in the middle of check/jerk and there is an unexpected cat scratch it tends to add distraction. I have found that the guy focuses on trying to figure out what is going on and gives me extra time. Even if he jerks away he tends to look at my hand in surprise (Kind of like a speeder will automatically look at the speedometer of the stopped car when the cops asks "Did you know you were speeding?"). While he is focused on the minor pain, I slug him or throw him. Of course when combined with tiger or dragon strikes this pain is often not so minor. Although I am now "retired" from the lifestyle where those tricks were common, I have found that I still tend to keep these nails on the longish side out of habit and mental comfort. (I feel nekkid without them) Animal ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:24:10 EST Subject: eskrima: Hock Hockheim For more info on Hock Hockheim, check out his web site at http://www.AmericanKnifeFighters.com. JT ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 15:26:15 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 In a message dated 99-01-01 15:10:30 EST, you write: << There were guys in china that would make a concoction with venom in it. You take it daily and when you want to fight, just lick your fingernails and scratch your opponent. There would be enough in your bodily fluids to cause some harm to anyone you happen to scratch. Imagine all that venom in your body fluids. Use your imagination, but that could make ones life a living hell. >> One of my old teachers used to tell of a method of creating a, "poisen hand", by mixing a collection of poisonous substances in a bowl each day, and daily ingesting an herbal formula which acted as an antidote to the particular mix of poisons used. Supposedly after about a year of this practice the nails of the poisoned hand turned black and the skin turned gray. At this point a scratch from the nail would be lethal to the person scratched. It was said that the tissue of the hand was saturated with poison that even a hard slap would drive the poison into the skin of your opponent. Teacher said this was a very low level poison hand technique frequently used by gangsters. Since only the individual following the practice knew the particular mix of poisons, only he had the antidote. A good situation for an extortionist!! The old, "I just scratched You. If You do not pay me immediately I will not administer the antidote and within a few hours You will be dead!!" Pretty insidious stuff!! Jim ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 22:20:06 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #1 In a message dated 99-01-01 15:11:42 EST, you write: << I was curious if anyone on this list has knowledge of Hock Hochheim and his books, videos, seminars, organizations, etc. I know little about him, but have seen the recent article he wrote on the 10 sins of knife fighting in several magazines. It seemed as though he took a number of "cheap shots" at some of the other knife fighting instructors out there. (one of whom is a friend of mine) Anyone have any pros or cons to share. I'd just like to know more about him and his organizations. >> Here's his url: http://www.americanknifefighters.com/ I have the his book. It's fairly decent. He clearly explains why he has certain beliefs and backs up his do's and don't. He's not afraid to give his opinion. I haven't re-read the article or the book, but the dreaded "thumb- disease" I think he calls it, sticks out in my mind. I don't think he was taking pot shots per se, I think he was probably try to emphasize to the neophyte or would be "knife fighter" (which would be anyone who calls himself a "knife fighter"?) that the highly trained and experenced may be able to get away with something the neophyte can not. Or, something to that effect. Joe average martial artist might go to a seminar and see an expert demonstrating a technique with his thumb extended and think that's the way to fight with a knife. Next thing you know, he/she's out on the street with his/her thumb extended and gets his/her knife slapped out of his/her hand. Whether the seminar expert realizes it or not, the neophyte will try and emulate him/her exactly and in doing so may get in trouble. Anyway, that's my interpretation based on the book. Jim Lowe ------------------------------ From: "Timothy Hartman" Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 22:26:04 EST Subject: eskrima: Stick-Street & Slam Seminar Greetings, I am happy to announce The Stick-Street & Slam seminar to be held at the American Kenpo Karate Studio in Lansdale PA.The seminar will consist of Modern Arnis,Kenpo Karate & Jui Jitsu. Instructors: Punong-Guro Timothy J Hartman - Modern Arnis Sensei Mike Cappi - Parker's Kenpo Sensei Richard Beaupit - Jui Jitsu When: January 17th 1999,9:30AM - 6:30PM Where: American Kenpo Karate Studio 1551 Valley Forge Rd. Lansdale,PA. 215-361-2467 cappi@voicenet.com Cost: $55.00 This seminar is open to all.Hope to see you there. Punog-Guro Timothy J.Hartman Can-Am Director I.M.A.F E-mail modernarnis@hotmail.com Federation http://members.tripod.com/~IMAF_CANAM School http://members.tripod.com/~mod_arnis ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 03:20:00 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Sharp teeth I wanted to find out if anyone remembered that pro wrestler than sharpened his teeth with files? He was known for kissing women then biting the womens lips and sucking on the blood. Turiyan ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 12:02:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #2 ************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.