From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #16 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 14 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 016 In this issue: eskrima: Eskrima information eskrima: To pad or not to pad eskrima: Historical Treasure eskrima: Mystery Inosanto Book eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #15 eskrima: Obtaining rattan eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #15 Re: eskrima: Garimot Simple Padded Stick eskrima: Re: life is short eskrima: Brazil eskrima: Seeking Information on Raymond Toboasa & Florintino Pancipanci Re: eskrima: Seeking Information on Raymond Toboasa & Florintino Re: eskrima: Brazil eskrima: Sub-systems in Inayan Eskrima??? Re: eskrima: Sub-systems in Inayan Eskrima??? eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: x96moaidin@wmich.edu Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:22:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Eskrima information Hello! My name is Nairul and I come from Malaysia. I'm studying at Western Michigan University and will be going back home in August. I will be going to the Phillipines to study escrima and I would really appreciate it if anyone can give me some information on the Doce Pares school in that country. I have been doing eskrima for some time and my dream is to study under a grandmaster in the Phillipines. I would appreciate any feedback. Nairul ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey Finder Date: 14 Jan 99 12:23:08 -0800 Subject: eskrima: To pad or not to pad >why do we need padded sticks?....are we afraid of getting hurt while >practicing an art based on blades?.....if so, take up tkd or something that is >non weapon oriented.....the purpose of training with unpadded weapons is to >instill the mindset of avoidance.....you know they hurt when they hit, so dont >get hit......leighan Let me reiterate a point I made on this thread recently. Sonny Umpad designed his padded sticks with one primary purpose, so that during training drills one could target the hand without having to be overly concerned about the power level. Sonny's drills use a lot of leveraged snaps, so for his training, this is quite a benefit, as it is difficult to control the velocity of these snaps. Hand bones aren't that strong, and getting the back of the hand hit with rattan can break them. I know from personal experience (not from training with Sonny, btw). Sonny's sticks were not designed for full power. As Crafty pointed out, there is some risk of a composite stick coming apart. I've known handles to break, and also end caps to come off, exposing the inner rod, though not the catastrophic failure he described. I also concur with the opinion that padded sticks can be dangerous in their own right. They can leave nasty, painful welts (if you want to punish someone without killing them, these are pretty useful!), punyo strikes with the hard handles can break hand bones, and the heavy weight of padded rattan in tournaments can have more impact than the unpadded sticks. Do not underestimate the power of sticks. Though there is much talk of the stick being the prelude to blade work, some oldtimers preferred the damage done by hardwood to use of a blade. More to the bone, and I'd think the lack of cutting would leave less evidence (at least where forensics are practiced), such as blood getting on you from your opponent (OK, OK, I know sticks can cut, especially to bony areas like the head, but blades are made to optimize this quality). One other benefit that padded sticks provide is the opportunity to train quietly late at night in an apartment (or any residence) without the noise disturbing those around you. FYI, I use the padded sticks very rarely myself, but I like having the option for those other times .... Jeff "Stickman" Finder ------------------------------ From: Jeffrey Finder Date: 14 Jan 99 12:23:12 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Historical Treasure Last night a friend called and said he had a present for me. I had no way to expect what he had. Apparently, in rummaging in the basement of the house where he's lived for years, he found some old jujitsu manuals, written in 1917 and published in 1920! These were written by Captain Allan Corstorphin Smith, USA, Winner of the Black Belt, Japan, 1916. He was the Instructor of Hand to Hand Fighting at teh Infantry School, Camp Benning, Georgia (photos include West Point trainees at the camp), and at the United States Training Camps and Cantonments, 1917 and 1918 (remember, he was training men going to war). This makes him the earliest Western military proponent of these arts of whom I know, though I'll assume he was sent to Japan on assignment to learn this art. These books are in remarkably good shape. I was paranoid about their fragility, but they are in better shape (and printed on better paper) than many newer books I have. These are manuals numbered 1-7, which were wrapped Japanese style in a removable binder/dust jacket. Volume 1 is about training and using the Stahara (his word for the Hara, or center). Volume 2, which is missing, is about waist grabs and throat attacks; #3 covers wrist grabs; #4 is attacks from behind; #5 is defenses against sticks, knives, pistols, kicks, etc; #6 is taking prisoners and using jointlocks; #7 is strangleholds. The format showing the technique (with a photo), then showing the counter (also with a photo); book 7 has no counters. The quality of presentation is succinct but quite good. The footwork is pretty similar to Serrada's, using the male triangle. Very cool looking at guys in these old uniforms, with spurs on their boots, doing this stuff. The first pictue is a painting by a Japanese artist of the author receiving his Black Belt at the Central Jujitsu College in Tokyo, followed by a photo of the subsequent tea ceremony. The Japanese are wearing everything from military uniforms to Western-style suits to traditional garb, and the author is wearing his Scottish clan kilt! He is the only Westerner to appear in these scenes. I've only had a chance to skim these books, but I'm eagerly looking forward to spending more time with them. One thing it reminds me, is that nothing we do is new ..... Jeff "Stickman" Finder ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:28:53 EST Subject: eskrima: Mystery Inosanto Book I have a friend in Colorado who swears he's found information on a hard-to- find book on the Filipino Arts, written by Dan Inosanto. He says this book is not THE book I'm sure we all know well. No, this one is specifically about Cabales Serrada Escrima... and it is not Mark Wiley's book. My friend found it in "Books In Print," though it may be out of print, with a different publisher as well as a title spelled differently, from Wiley's book on the subject. I argued that the book has never existed, but with my limited exposure, perhaps I've missed it. Has anyone ever heard of this mysterious but tantalizing source of information? We have a bet on this... ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:33:50 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #15 In a message dated 99-01-14 14:43:53 EST, you write: << Why use padded sticks? Longevity of training is one reason. >> How about if you break your toys you won't get anymore...toys being sparring partners Animal ------------------------------ From: John Gaasland Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:57:45 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Obtaining rattan My daughter and I are just begging in an Eskrima class. We are wondering where to obtain some rattan cane in our area? We live in Olympia, WA, which is close to Seattle. Thanks, John Gaasland. ------------------------------ From: "Carl Fung" Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:07:16 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #15 >> --- Rocky, there is a guy named Tony Cecchine who is promoting what he >> terms Catchwrestling, or Catch As Catch Can wrestling. Here is some info >> that might help you.. He's a very powerful grappler and he's a very nice >> guy. He also some an actual instructional tape coming out. Filming starts >> in Feb.. He currently has a tape of himself doing a seminar. Not the >> greatest production, but good information. I got the video this weekend >> and haven't finished it yet, but so far it's pretty good information..I >> got the following info from a web site that does martial arts video tape >> reviews... >> >> Company: Catch Wrestling >> Tape Name: Catch Wrestling Hooking Seminar >> Tape Cost: $29.00 (including shipping Catch is an old term to my understanding. The father of it in America is Carl Gotch. He trains a handful of people directly like Guy Chase in S.F. and New Hampsire. He is the relative of Shoto as one of his students took his wrestling and regimented it in a japanese way and called it shooto. Guy Chase gives more respect and years ago we started calling it "Gotch submission wrestling" because gotch himself being a quiet nonselfpromoter did not have a name for what he taught because his version of catch as catch can was kinda different in philosophy like Sigung Lee was to KungFu. carl ------------------------------ From: Allen Eastwood Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:42:25 -0600 Subject: Re: eskrima: Garimot Simple Padded Stick >From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\" Sardinas" >Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 12:46:02 -0500 >Subject: eskrima: Garimot Simple Padded Stick > >Take one regular rattan stick, wrapped foam pipe insulation around it, >secure insulation with duct tape and electrical tape. Leave 6 inches of >stick free of insulation for regular grip. Tape is not completely wrapped >around stick, it is wrapped in 4-5 sections like nodes on a regular rattan >stick. > >In respect to what Mr. Allen Eastwood wrote recently, I can guarantee you *grin* Just Allen, no need to be formal! ;p A few years back I played around with this sort of thing, and one of the guys at one school where I work out has something very similar sounding, save that he wraps the entire stick. I found I tend to prefer the entire stick wrapped as the balance is better. How thick a foam are you using? The Lameco sticks are nice, but I found that the rattan inside tends to wear out pretty fast if you are going at too full a tilt. Just a case of being a bit too thin. All said and done, I do belive that there is a pretty major difference between a welt from a padded stick and one from an unpadded stick. I found my Dog Brother's experiences got me thinking a lot about what works and what does not and what kind of punishment the human body really can take. I think it's a matter of using various styles of training to enhance your understanding as you go along. The more intense your experiences, the more understandings you gain. - -Allen http://rampages.onramp.net/~mixal Standard Disclaimer: As always typos and spelling mistakes are the works of the gremlins that live in the net and should in no way be attributed to the author of this message. ------------------------------ From: Allen Eastwood Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:46:23 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: life is short At 13:44 01/14/1999 , you wrote: >Subject: eskrima: life is short > >Just a quick mention of the following in case you hear it from other sources... > >This past weekend the US Open TKD championships were held in the LA area. >Elite level competitors attended from around the globe. > >>From the Danish team, a 25 year-old 2nd Dan was fighting and took a back >spin heel kick to the side of the neck. It apparently broke his neck. He >quickly went into a deep coma and died shortly thereafter. > >Never forget that life is short. Very true, Ray. My thoughts to the family, friends and the decedent. If I may take a tangent and hopefully don't come off as too tacky... I think I see a tendency sometimes to be a little disparaging of other arts. I think this is a really good example that other arts have some stuff, that under the right circumstances can be very effective. Just something to think about... - -Allen http://rampages.onramp.net/~mixal Standard Disclaimer: As always typos and spelling mistakes are the works of the gremlins that live in the net and should in no way be attributed to the author of this message. ------------------------------ From: Andrew Johnson Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:53:16 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Brazil I will be visiting Brazilia during Carnival in february. Does anyone know what weapons are legal to carry in Brazil? ------------------------------ From: "Dean Yamamura" Date: 14 Jan 1999 18:05:43 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Seeking Information on Raymond Toboasa & Florintino Pancipanci "Dr. Jerome Barber" wrote: > I would appricate any information that anyone can provide > regarding the late FMAs Masters, Raymond Tobosa and/or > Florintino Pancipanci. I have read the material on GM Tabosa > in the book "Filipino Martial Arts Culture" and I would like > to get more information about his school in Hawaii, in the > 1970 - 1980's. I am a former student of Raymond TOBOSA. If you are referring to the Mark Wiley book, information there was provided by Raymond Tobosa's younger brother, Teofisto "Toby" Tobosa. He is advisor to the current head of Tobosa Kali-Escrima, Donald Mendoza. > I have reason to believe that the unnamed instructor/partner in > the Tabosa school during that period was GM Pancipanci. I started in the Tobosa schools in the mid-80's. I am only acquainted with Pancipanci via the television show he appeared in. During the time I spent under the direct tutelage of Raymond Tobosa, he talked of his many friends and acquaintances in the martial arts, but only briefly mentioned Pancipanci. Even then, only with respect to his activity with CHA3. Tonight, I will be visiting the home of someone who was quite close to Raymond Tobosa. I will ask about the information you request. > Thanks in advance for your assistance. You are quite welcome. Depending on the nature of the information you want, I will correspond with you via email. If Ray Terry prefers, we can discuss it here. Dean Yamamura dsy@fnmail.com - --------------------------------------------------------------- This Message was Powered by the Mailroom (www.mailroom.com) Got Mail? Click Now for Your Free Account! ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:12:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Seeking Information on Raymond Toboasa & Florintino > want, I will correspond with you via email. If Ray Terry prefers, we > can discuss it here. Feel free to share, if appropriate. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:14:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Brazil > I will be visiting Brazilia during Carnival in february. Does anyone > know what weapons are legal to carry in Brazil? Well, I noticed some of the dancing ladies carrying around a couple of 38s. Sorry, couldn't resist... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: szorn@webtv.net (STEVE ZORN) Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 18:28:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Sub-systems in Inayan Eskrima??? I tried posting this a few days ago but it has not shown up so I assume it did not make it. So here it goes again- I am thinking about starting a class in Inayan Eskrima. The instructor told me there were 10 sub-systems in this style/system. I am aware of Serrada Eskrima in this sysytem but what are the other 9 sub-systems? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Steve ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:49:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Sub-systems in Inayan Eskrima??? > I am thinking about starting a class in Inayan Eskrima. The instructor > told me there were 10 sub-systems in this style/system. I am aware of > Serrada Eskrima in this sysytem but what are the other 9 sub-systems? You should find the info you want in the FMA FAQ. But... -------------- Snip ---------------- Each system in the Inayan System is taught in its entirety, following the methodology of teaching the pure art first, then allowing each student develop their own composite personal style. The Inayan System is "blade" oriented vs. "stick" oriented. The following are the six systems taught in the Inayan System: 1) Serrada Eskrima as taught by the late GM Angel Cabales in the mid-1960s and 1970s. - - see style description elsewhere in this FAQ 2) Kadena De Mano - - see style description elsewhere in this FAQ 3) Sinawali - - see style description elsewhere in this FAQ 4) Inayan Dequerdas - - Inayan Dequerdas is a mid-range style stressing female-triangle footwork and strong augmented blocks. 5) Espada y Daga - - see style description elsewhere in this FAQ 6) Inayan Larga Mano - - A long range system of Eskrima. Evolved to use a longer/heavier cane (~40") and to use the cane as if it were a Kampilan, the longest sword found in the Philippines. This style is credited as being the first complete formal style to teach the use of the Kampilan. (The Kampilan was the weapon use by Lapulapu to kill Ferdinand Magellan in 1521.) The Inayan System of Eskrima also employs the following in varying degrees: Solo/Doble Baston (single/double stick), Solo/Doble Punyal (single/double dagger), Sipat (kicks), Sibat/Bankow (staff/spear), Pamuok (hand-to-hand fighting), Lipad-lipad (bow/arrow, blowgun). -------------- Snip ---------------- Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:50:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #16 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.