From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #20 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 16 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 020 In this issue: eskrima: Re- Allens Question eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #16 eskrima: Re: Hooking Re: eskrima: Re: Hooking eskrima: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #18 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:38:53 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re- Allens Question Allen Wrote: > IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE WHO REALLY, REALLY POSSSESS THE TRUE > FUNCTIONAL TECHNIQUE OF CATACH AS CATCH CAN? > > If anyone has any information on this I am interested. I am looking > for someone who really knows the real art, someone who learned from > someone who learned from one of the great Hookers of early 1900's. > > Guro Allen Sachetti > Allen to the best of my knowledge, the address that Steve posted a few posts' ago is a great connection for Katchas katch kan, it seems by all accounts the Frank Ciccines (sp) is a true Hooker, he list a few old time Hookers, how ever I know their are more around, few and far between. In fact I am trying to find a few guys here in michigan that ran with my father some 60 years ago, they are legitimate Hookers as was my father. A guy name Matt Fuery has a web page where he offers for sell the 1914 Farmer Burns mail order Wrestling catalog, a must have for grapplers. However Allen if you really want to train in Katchas Katch Kan, a word of caution. Imagine the most violent Tai Boxing match , and the most brutal Jujitsu match you have ever seen, multiply it by 5 and you have katchas katch kan. Because of its demand many old timers won't teach it, they would rather take it to their graves than water it down. My father use to say for every day of Katch training you needed 3 to 5 days to recover, more people were permanently injured in Katch practice, then were ever hurt in the bare knuckle boxing or pit fighting of the late 1920's & early 30's. In fact my father did more bare knuckle/pit fighting and prize fighting than Katch, because it was safer!!! Good Luck Rocky Pasiwk Chief instructor Anciong's original Balintawak Founder Cuentada Demano ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:36:50 -0800 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #16 Carl are you a students of Guy's at his Boston school or are you a former student from NH? He's my instructor (I live in Oakland) but I've never met you before. Yori Nakamura (The inventor of Shoot) is "The Great" Carl Gotch's Nephew. Jeff Monaghan ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 13:22:12 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Hooking In a message dated 1/15/99 11:09:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Am I dreaming that? Anyone else see that interview w/Thesz? >> Karl Gotch wasn't born until 1924 maybe he's speaking of Frank Gotch? Anyway here's an interesting snip; <>BTW he was 78 in '94 when this interiew took place. Also who might the two hookers in New England be? any info apreciated. Regards, Travis Kilap@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 12:21:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Hooking > In a message dated 1/15/99 11:09:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest- > owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > > << Am I dreaming that? Anyone else see that interview w/Thesz? >> > > Karl Gotch wasn't born until 1924 maybe he's speaking of Frank Gotch? Yes, Frank Gotch, not Karl. wrt Karl, Tony Cecchine indicated to me that there are only four hookers around today; Lou Thesz, Karl Gotch, Billy Robinson, and Tony Cecchine. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 16:45:58 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: leighans@aol.com i seem to have ruffled a few feathers.....i did not mean that tkd was merely a child's game of tag....i will never dispute the danger or potential lethality of such arts.....if you are old enough to remember back to the olympics in korea, you will recall a korean boxer died in the ring....living is a dangerous proposition......you take your chances each time you cross the street.........my point is that you know what you are engaging when you sign your waiver to start classes.....even if you dont sign one, one should have enough sense to realize that all endeavors are potentially dangerous....we all know that pvc is not the world's most enduring material....something should click in our heads and tell us it isnt a good thing to use......the use of weapons is to overcome the body's natural toughness and to give the attacker an advantage over the victim.....i was taught that the best defence was to not be there in the first place....you cant hit what isn't there....whether you duck, weave, run away, or what ever you choosetraining without armor and using a sensible amount of force that corresponds with the skill level, helps to reinforce the body's natural sense of self preservation....i have had my share of busted knuckles and broken bones from such practice....i won't lie, it hurts like hell....therefore i try my best not to get hit....getting broken and mutilated is not my idea of a good time, but i accept this as part of my practice....it beats dying when i actually have to use this for a real life threatening encounter.....being able to add a level or so of danger is very beneficial to your training....for starters, it helps to build confidence....for without that, all the technique and skill in the world will not save your butt.....she who hesitates, dies.....the whole point in studying and practicing the various combative arts is to gain skill and confidence in ourselves so that we are able to protect ourselves and our loved ones should the need arise.....if we practice in complete safety, we never gain the experience nor the confidence we need to actually apply our arts....remember back to some of your psych classes about the ways we learn?...pavlov, with his conditioned responce and the sytem of rewards and punishments?....we naturally use these in our everyday lives...why not use these same principles for our training?....we practice so the technique hopefully becomes a natural responce, kinda like the bell rings and we salivate......pain from using a sloppy technique or the wrong one becomes the motivator to do it correctly......it does not benefit anyone to be afraid of the consequences of their actions....if you are not doing it for the right reason, you should not be doing it in the first place....victory results from total commitment to your action...total commitment, without fear. ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Sat, 16 Jan 99 19:44:17 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #18 >One note on the question of padding. Angel Cabales, Floro Villiabrille, >Tatang Illustrissimo, Jose Mena, Felicissimo Dizon, Ben Lema, Ben Largusa - >all great Grand Masters, I don't know if any of these guys used padding >(sticks or armor). I don't know about Tatang himself, but when training with Tony Diego the padded stick was used alot. I think this might be one of the many commonalities between Kali Illustrissimo and Lameco. >We don't use padding when we train. And we do go at it pretty hard, but >with control. We gradually build up our intensity as our skill and control >build up. When the ability to go hard while still stopping at the point of >contact is developed - then we are really able to turn it up. New students >who want to go hard and just swing away are taught to slow down and respect >their training partners - cause if ya hurt em, you won't have any. BTW, I >work on a computer most of the day, as do many of my fellow instructors (one >of whom is studying to become a chiropractor) and students. My point is, >while we all suffer from the occasional bruise, cut and even broken bone - >that is the nature of the art we choose to practice. As long as control and >proper technique is exhibited, and intensity level is directly proportional >to skill level - I believe practitioners can go unpadded. All true, but Tony had me easing up on contact even with the padded stick. This is not to say that I hit that hard (or am out of control), it is to echo what many have already said: even a padded stick will do damage. > >Just call me a hard headed, old school traditionalist. I don't believe in using something just because it is "modern," but at the same time I think we often forget that what we term "traditional" was once cutting edge. You can bet that at some point in the Philippines, and all over the world, the so-called traditionalists clung to their bronze weapons as superior. Unfortunately for them there were also some iconoclastic upstarts who decided to try iron. Neither do most of us go to work in a horse and buggy--technology, judiciously applied, can be our friend. John ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 17:15:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #20 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.