From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #34 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 26 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 034 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 eskrima: Tony Cecchine eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 eskrima: more hookers ? ? ? eskrima: Knives and LEOs eskrima: a nice little piece eskrima: and now ... eskrima: counter-disarms, rock 'n roll eskrima: Cold Weather Carry eskrima: Cold Carries & its just a tool, officer eskrima: Retention eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #32 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Talmadge Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:54:39 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 > Regarding Tony Cecchine, how is that last name pronounced? Anyone know? > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Ray, in Italian, it would be cheh-KEEN-ay. Don't know how he himself pronounces it. I missed the previous catchwrestling discussions. Has anyone trained with Matt Furey and seen his proficiency with hooks? I trained with him before he got into catchwrestling, his takedowns and control-groundwork were incredible, but his submissions weren't great. I'd love to hear an update on how he's come along. cheers, Joe Talmadge jat@cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:02:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 > > Regarding Tony Cecchine, how is that last name pronounced? Anyone know? > > > > Ray Terry > > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > > Ray, in Italian, it would be cheh-KEEN-ay. Don't know how he himself > pronounces it. > > I missed the previous catchwrestling discussions. Has anyone trained > with Matt Furey and seen his proficiency with hooks? I trained with > him before he got into catchwrestling, his takedowns and > control-groundwork were incredible, but his submissions weren't > great. I'd love to hear an update on how he's come along. Tony cheh-KEEN-ay :) recommended Matt. Tony said that he frequently does seminars at Matt's school. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:20:54 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 In a message dated 1/26/99 9:44:24 AM US Mountain Standard Time, eskrima- digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Regarding Tony Cecchine, how is that last name pronounced? Anyone know? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >> It's pronounced sha-keeny Cecil B. ------------------------------ From: "Grantham, Stephen" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:29:04 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Tony Cecchine >>Regarding Tony Cecchine, how is that last name pronounced? Anyone know? >> >>Ray Terry >>raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Hi Ray, I believe, if I remember correctly from his tape, that he pronounces it "Chakeeni", like bikini with a "ch" sound instead of "b", which is not how I would have pronounced from reading it. His handle on the submissionfighting.com forum is TonyC... HTH -- Hope This Helps Steve Grantham sgrantham@microage.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:48:43 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #33 Oh, well, I suppose I'll add: janfu, which is not a Chinese martial arts system, but rather -- according to a Gen-Xer I know -- an acronym meaning Joint Army-Navy F*ck Up. JB ------------------------------ From: "Rudolf Kimbel (100432.650@compuserve.com)" <100432.650@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:01:54 -0500 Subject: eskrima: more hookers ? ? ? to:INTERNET:eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >Regarding Tony Cecchine, how is that last name pronounced? Anyone know? >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com If he's pronounced the Italian way, which I would assume, the Ce like 'chester' or 'chess', and the cchi like 'cheese' or 'cheek'. The whole name would be pronounced like it were spelled 'checheine'. The stress would be on the middle, the last e would be spoken only lightly. ------------------------------ From: "Michael Melone" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:40:58 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Knives and LEOs Quote: It seems to me that the only time the average and ordinary citizen will have such a conflict with the Local Constabulary is *after* a knife has been displayed (or used) as a weapon which certainly has to be a good part of your self defence decision. - -- Reply: IMO, this is a good point. I've been told by LEOs that as citizens its important for us to pass an "attitude check." We don't want to give the LEO a reason to search us, either by acting strangely or pissing him off. That's why when I deal with LEOs its always, "yes sir," or "no sir." Also, never consent to a search and never, ever tell the LEO your knife is for self defense. If asked, and I never have been, I will tell him I'm a knifemaker/distributor, show him my business card and explain that I'm evaluating the knives I'm carrying. Of course my business card mentions a 15% law enforcement discount. It can't hurt. :) Ciao Mike memelone@recyclermail.com GET YOUR OWN FREE, PRIVATE E-MAIL ACCOUNT FROM RECYCLER.COM -- FREE CLASSIFIEDS, FREE AUCTIONS, AND LOTSA R'COMMUNITY -- HTTP://WWW.RECYCLERMAIL.COM ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:42:10 -0800 Subject: eskrima: a nice little piece What with all the discussion recently about carrying ... very recently I found an innocent little go-anywhere pocket piece. It is a 6" metal fingernail file, about the size of a pen. It is a stamped concave blade shape, with the filing on the inside of the V and a rubber sleeve for the handle. It works great as intended, maybe the best nail file I've ever had. It also fits nicely in the hand like a "chicken" blade, only the tip exposed (in this case maybe an inch). I've been flowing through small blade/tabak techniques with this and quickly came to appreciate some special qualities about it. It will not cut, though it can undoubtedly stab with sufficient intent. Seems like it would be nasty as a pressure point applicator/poker through clothing. One might practice with it (carefully!) with a partner, using the smooth outer side of the V-shaped blade. However, cutting with the inner file or with the edge catching the file, the effect is micro-serration; kinda nasty as a scrape that lights up lots of nerve endings (in other words, don't practice this bit on friends if ya wanna stay that way). It's been an hour or so since I tried this out on myself, and my forearms still feel the burn. All in all, a nice little pocket piece that shouldn't draw attention. Wonder if I'd have a problem getting it on a plane? No sharpened edges .... Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:58:14 -0800 Subject: eskrima: and now ... >And remember, golf balls don't hit back... Can anyone yell "Fore!" ??? OUCH!!! >If you wear a trench coat, I dunno. Carry a katana maybe? I always wanted to join the 'Highlander' fan club! Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:45:54 -0800 Subject: eskrima: counter-disarms, rock 'n roll The system I use to practice weapon (blade) retention: First know how to apply good basic joint locks, then learn to counter each one. See how many variations you can find. Now add the weapon, turning locks into disarms. Next, allow the person with the weapon to counter these disarms. As with the earlier joint locks, this will involve various twists of the wrist, combined with use of the check hand to trap or wipe. Also, learn not to leave the weapon exposed; in many old writings, emphasis is placed on the return portion of a hit. Getting in may be a surprise, getting out is not, so practice striking quickly and decisively, using intent. Think about how wild animals will set up their attack: bite and jump back (as opposed to bite and control). Thinking about the disarms, pt 2: There is a bcd (basic common denominator) I look for in many techniques. I refer to this as rock 'n roll, because those are the two meta-movements. Rocking refers to side to side torque using the lower bridges of the legs and torso, while rolling refers more to use of the hands to control and hit. Patterns. Sinawalli. We have three dimensions in which to move, giving us up/down, in/out, left/right. By developing sensitivity to attack (timing, touch etc), we learn to intercept, counter, reverse. The rocking of the body deflects incoming power, sets up issuing your own. Keep the hands in motion to smother the opponent, finding the openings to counter or attack. Disarming, as has been amply testified on this Digest, is a dubious propasition, and smaller weapons are harder to control in close quarters. Focusing on good body mechanics should give you what you need, whether you are attacking or defending. When it comes to disarming/counter disarming, there is very little difference, since it is a fight for control of the resource (the weapon). As with any jujutsu, there are opportunities from either positions of strength or weakness, so it is about being able to best exploit your position. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:02:31 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Cold Weather Carry > I carried a Spyderco Delica clipped to my sleeve along the inside of the wrist. It > was easy to access (just put your hands together) and inconspicuous. > I was going to stay away from offering anything on this thread but there it is ... my cold weather carry. Clip blade to inside of left wrist cuff, wear glove liners instead of gloves. Some glove liners will suffice for the average cold weather jaunt. The more wind resistant the better. I haven't braved miler treks in Minnesota winter in a long time, but I'm confident that if not out too long, and the wind is not rough, glove liners will be OK. This varies with humidity of course, e.g., although it wasn't as cold in D.C. as it was in Minnesota, the degree to which the cold was felt was greater in D.C. than in Minnesota ... MN has that deceptively dry cold which will freeze ya before you know it (well, not really, the pain will let you know that freeze is happnin' :-) NEway, glove liners are also flexible and thin enough to allow manipulation of the weapon, opening, etc. Critical thing then is the amount of friction maintainable with the glove liner, i.e., the weapon can slip. I don't recall the manufacturer's name, but the ones that I wear have a logo on the back that provides a "good enough" no-slip grip. As long as manipulation doesn't involve anything fancy it might suffice (hey, I can't do any of that fancy stuff anyway). One test of grip is driving ... if the whell slips while you're wearing your cold weather hand protection and turning the steering wheel there may not be enough "tack" there for secure weapon handling. The same can be true of a glove depending on the material(s). Another plus depending on the type of weapon being used is the reduction in pain to the hand from possibly handling sharply angled edges, i.e., the handles of a modern bare-bones combat knife. If you've handled the AFCKs, consider how they would feel in your -cold- hand. Pain sensation changes with lowerin gtemperature. Cold has a straightforward pain component ... e.g., imagine hitting your thumb with a hammer, now imagine the same but with a very cold, but not numb, thumb. Know what I mean? All pain has a very striong emotional component that says: "Hey! Do something about this ... NOW!!!" Oh yeah, when it comes to the inside of wrist cuff carry, the smaller blades are definitely better: Less likely to show, and less likely to leave your possesion (fall out) unless you fling your hand around (reminds me of the brief ankle rig thread). With this carry the thumb goes into the cuff and the fingers wrap around the weapon. A variation that I've tried is to put cuff into glove/liner, then clip weapon into glove/liner (less likely to lose the tool). Time for some research: which is faster? With the weapon in the cuff, the draw is more natural and smooth but might require manipulation of the weapon before opening it depending on the location of the clip. With the weapon clipped into glove, the draw places it into the working hand for a single motion opening but the draw itself may be more awkward, again an argument for the smaller weapon. Just a coupla my thoughts on the topic. Vaya con Dios muchachos. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:59:47 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Cold Carries & its just a tool, officer A Howl of Greeting to All: I'm enjoying this thread on the excellent question of cold weather carries and draws. There have been many thoughtful comments. Although I'm now an Angeleno, I did grow up in NYC and still have vague memories of what its like to be really cold. One of the things that I remember is that cold weather makes for heavy clothing. I'd be curious to hear what people have to say about what type of knife and techniques work best on parkas, pea coats, leather jackets and the like. Does the factor of heavy clothing sometimes make a blade impractical, especially folders which must be opened in an adrenal state with what may be some really cold fingers? Or would certain impact weapons have their merits as well? And, a tangent to the point at hand, do you really want to have a scumbags blood gushing about (perhaps into your eyes) in an environment such as NYC where a substantial percentage of the scumbags have AIDS? On legal issues, of course this varies wildly not only from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but also from LEO to LEO, and context to context. Regardless, it may be a good idea to already have one's thinking clear as to all the good, legal reasons to carry the tool known as a knife before entering into conversation with some perturbed constabulary. (BTW, here in California, self-defense is NOT a legal reason-- to the contrary it is an admission of felonious intent to carry a weapon.) For example in my life I use the tool known as a knife in the following ways: 1) To open cardboard boxes. I pick up boxes of videos and martial arts supplies and other things all the time at my mailbox. In many cases they have an unconventional shape due to their content which leads to them be heavily taped. 2) Newspaper clippings: As a confirmed newspaper junkie (I read the WSJ, the LA Times, and the Daily Breeze every day and sundry magazines such as Reason and various MA rags all the time) I am always clipping out articles to share with friends or for my records. The tanto blade folder I carry is ideal. The "corner" where the front edge and the main edge meet is perfect for drawing a cut around an article while sitting in a restaurant without cutting through to other pages or rattling those sitting nearby. Of course it doesn't have to be that sharp Officer, but its easier, hence safer to use when it is. 3) Opening CDs. Have you tried opening one of the F@$#%g things with just your hands?!? I have a CD player in my truck and the tanto corner is ideal for opening a CD. 4) I eat lots of protein bars and such. Many (e.g. Metrx) are very annoying to open, especially while driving down the freeway. I'm sure this point could be made to the LEO in question with one of bars I keep in my glove compartment. Just let him try to do it without the knife, then with. A nice sharp tanto folder allows me to effortlessly, hence more safely open the bar as I drive along. 5) Thinking of my pocket knife as a tool is consistent with my other behavior. I carry on my keyring a gizmus that is a standard and Phillips screwdriver, mini-pliers and wire cutter all in one. I'm just a guy who likes to be prepared. 6) Its not a weapon-- after all what good would it be against a gun? And that clip-it feature? Its not for fast draw, its for keeping the knife from making a hole in my pocket. Woof, Crafty Dog PS: Billy McG is a New Yawkuh, perhaps he has some thoughts on cold weather issues and carrying. ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:10:39 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Retention I've seen some Pekiti Tirsia work which included what at first glance might look like superfluous twirls of the blade after a thrust move en route to another. My interpretation of those twirls was that they were short slashes for when the adversary grabs or checks -- and would definitely serve weapon retention, i.e., defeat the disarm attempt. Tuhon McGrath if you're "listening", is my interpretation in touch with reality? Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 16:26:12 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #32 In a message dated 99-01-25 20:19:46 EST, you write: << Greetings! Regarding the traditional FMA uniforms... I'm pretty sure I saw I&I sports selling the traditional vests. You can take a look at their online catalog at: >> So what exactly is a "traditional FMA" uniform? I'm betting it's what ever you were wearing at the time. ;) (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) Jim Lowe jivita@aol.com Berkeley Eskrima Club http://members.aol.com/ekaliarnis/BEC.html Bamboo Fly Rod Price Record http://members.aol.com/fishyarn/pricerecord.html ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:35:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #34 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.