From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #40 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 30 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 040 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Brass Knuckles eskrima: Tai Chi and other idea's eskrima: stabbed, slashed and poisoned eskrima: Q&A eskrima: Slashes and thrusts eskrima: where oh where can my little doggy be Re: eskrima: Tai Chi and other idea's eskrima: re: "Knife trapping" eskrima: DBIMA Seminar in Florida eskrima: Book on filipino healing arts eskrima: Re: Sharp Knives eskrima: Neck Breaks eskrima: winter knives eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:23:48 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Brass Knuckles There's a legal modern equivalent. Jogging weights. You know those cute little things that you see people (mostly women) jogging with? The nice ones are D-shaped, solid steel, and weigh about a pound. They're usually in pretty feminine colors like pink or pastels and look totally innocent. If you go jogging with brass knuckles and the police notice you you will have to do some alwful fast talking to the judge. But if you are running along with a pair of the weights nobody will look twice. Todd ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:33:42 EST Subject: eskrima: Tai Chi and other idea's Stickman mentioned the aspect of functional tai-chi. I was wondering how many members out there knew some tai-chi fighters who mixed it up as bouncers, LEO's, etc. I can only think of William CC Chen. Another thing that I would like some opinions on is gun disarms. I dont mean Texas "Bad Rug" Ranger, kicking the gun hand,.... I mean close quarter control, stripping, and retention. I have viewed the Randy Wanner tapes from TRS and the ones from the Russian Speznatz guy in Montreal. They are quite different in approach. Does anyone have insight from their personal experience? How about training knowledge from battled hardened bodyguards(Larry Hartsell,Cliff Stewart) bouncers, LEO's, or war veterans like Maung Gyi? Just wondering,..tcsno@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:40:26 -0800 Subject: eskrima: stabbed, slashed and poisoned I'm not sure whether a process of fossilization needs to have begun in order for bones to be intact after 1000 or more years but it's clear that flesh decays rather quickly and bones can stick around a lot longer. Bones can be found intact for a very long time without being referred to as fossils. For instance, archaeologists disinter Indian gravesites in the Americas to determine how long people have been here; tens of thousands of years, at least. I may be wrong, but it seems that fossils, which are created when remains are mineralized by the surrounding environment, are generally millions of years old (dinosaurs or earlier). I just can't recall hearing of human fossils ... A lot of this depends on climate, too. Bodies buried in the desert sands (such as by a sandstorm) can turn up surprisingly intact a long time (hundreds of years) later. Same with cold climates, such as wooly mammoths discovered where the half-digested food in their stomachs is clearly identifiable, or the stone age man recovered intact a few years ago from a Swiss glacier (his autopsy has been in newspapers within the past few months). Rare examples, to be sure, but there they are ... << How does one carry such a lethal weapon on a daily basis without risk of scratching oneself?>> With the same care one handles a loaded firearm or curare coated arrow points. I've carried guns (I worked armed for years), but sharp poisoned things make me nervous. Look how many medical personnel get accidental needle sticks. Most gun wounds or syringes don't kill in 30 seconds. Not with such a degree of certainty as this guy expressed about his poisoned kerambit. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 21:35:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Q&A A Howl of Greeting to All: Sovann asked: "I finally bought some Dog Brothers tapes and have some questions on the Seguidas from Tape 4. Are these usually practiced solo? Or are they primarily practiced with a partner feeding an attack, such as the seguida featuring punyo attacks? How prominent a role do they play in the curriculum?" These seguidas are Top Dog's expression of some Pekiti Tirsia seguidas. They are not in order, or done according to the textbook in some cases, but I think PT people will agree that he has a feel for the essence. (comments Eric?) They are usually practiced solo-- the one you saw demonstrated with the assistance of Salty Dog was done that way so the viewer would be sure to understand the meaning of the motions as he practiced them solo. Certainly any of these could be practiced as a two man drill, but that would require the partner to learn the matching movements and to do them with the correct timing. As for their role in DBMA curriculum: They are there, some (e.g. #2 & #3) more than others. And the movements most certainly can be found in the DBMA seguidas, which also blend in some Lameco combinations. A movement in Seguida #3 was the point of departure for what became our two man "Attacking Blocks" drill, but the techniques cultivated in the AB drill draw most heavily from Inosanto Blend. , , , , , , "I'm still "recovering" from my initial viewing of these tapes; it blows my mind. And forcefully dispelled any idea that I could casually roll into Hermosa sometime and "try" full contact at a Gathering. It would take me months, more like a couple of years to gear up for something like that. Because I might be in condition physically, but no way am I anywhere near ready to deal with the pain or the mental aspect of that stuff. I mean, come on!! Two-handed punyos to the ribs!! Sticks WHOOSHING, left and right.!! I was ducking for cover, man." I agree with you, it is not something most people just roll into. There are exceptions however: Chris "the Tree that Walks" Poznik fought, and won, after nine lessons with me. We have many stories about this man (pried open a fighting pit bulls jaws with his hands(!) but he did lose a fingertip (!!!), a high level wrestler (once threw the Russian Olympic Gold medallist twice in a match) former bounty hunter, Royce Gracie is reputed to have said that he is the strongest man he ever wrestled, etc etc you get the idea. He has the tendon strength of an orangutan and in strength I am to him what a small female is to me, yet he's only some 12-15 pounds bigger than me. He's also a brown belt, going for black, in Machado BJJ. , , , , , "Another question, how do you motivate others to try this stuff with you? I'm not sure if showing them the tape is the best way, because it might freak them out as much as it did me! How soon do students in your school begin doing this?" Most of our approach has its roots in what Top Dog used to do in his "ronin phase" in the early and mid-80s. Virtually no one had a clue about this stuff, and along would come Eric with his pants belted high on his waste a la Richard Nixon (we still tease him about this) and his wire rimmed glasses (no beard in those days) and preppy sweater over a button-down shirt, sometimes with tie. There are some very funny stories about how this or that individual was lured onto the field. Eric's technique in this regard is also tops. The time we trained a team of USN SEALs Eric flew in from NYC and I taught the morning session of the first day. A couple of the lads were sent to pick him up at the airport at lunchtime. He matched the description, but they couldn't believe that he was the guy because they thought he looked like a Lutheran minister. But its much easier now- people have seen us and now know that it can be done. But as for the motivation? Basically, its a question and it comes from inside and the question must be answered. Tail wags for the kind words Sovann HTH. Mazel Tov, Crafty Dog PS: Did you know that the phrase "President Clinton of the USA" is an anagram for "To copulate he finds interns"? ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:08:30 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Slashes and thrusts >Animal wrote: >>Remember the Roman general who said "You wound with the edge, you kill with >>the point." When they dug up old graves of soldiers they discovered healed >>slash wounds, but that what done 'em in most was the point. > >Howdy Animal, > While I agree with the adage you quote, I wonder about the >archeological evidence you cite. As you know, bone tends to fossilize >a lot better than flesh does. Healed slash wounds seem like they'd >be unlikely to show up a thousand or so years later unless they'd >slashed all the way into the bone. So did they find a lot of healed >bones that appeared to have been slashed earlier or is it something >else? I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just interested. > >Randy B. >brannan@spawar.navy.mil OTOH, see description of excavation of the site of the Battle of Visby in John Clements' book on mediaeval swordsmanship. It seems most of the dead had a leg wound (slash) with head wound as a finish-off. The details are worth while! Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:53:23 -0800 Subject: eskrima: where oh where can my little doggy be Yip yip: David Cheng, if you are on this list, know that your e-mail's return address is not working. Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:39:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Tai Chi and other idea's > Another thing that I would like some opinions on is gun disarms. I dont mean > Texas "Bad Rug" Ranger, kicking the gun hand,.... I mean close quarter > control, stripping, and retention. I have viewed the Randy Wanner tapes from > TRS and the ones from the Russian Speznatz guy in Montreal. They are quite > different in approach. Does anyone have insight from their personal > experience? How about training knowledge from battled hardened > bodyguards(Larry Hartsell,Cliff Stewart) bouncers, LEO's, or war veterans like > Maung Gyi? Don't know about the battle hardened bodyguards, but the battle hardened LEOs typically learn disarms in the process of learning firearm retention. You learn the disarms and then learn the counters, i.e. retention. Some of the disarms come straight from what is being taught in the joint. IMHO, as with knife disarms the more basic and straight forward the better. Some disarms will require complex motor skills as you might see in some of the HwaRangDo knife disarms. The best, again IMHO, are the ones that are far less complex. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Jon K Curtis" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:21:50 -0500 Subject: eskrima: re: "Knife trapping" Hi Rocky... You wrote: >Here's one for you knife fighters out there. About 10 or 12 years ago Remy Presas and I met this guy who did some form of Japanese Karate. He had a book that showed a picture of some Japanese Master Knife fighter. The Master had a unique way of fighting. He would supposedly wait for a thrusting or hooking type of motion and then would jamb his hand into the path of the knife one the knife went through the hand he would turn his hand making it hard for you to dislodge your knife then he would stab you with his!!< Any idea how many times this guy got an opportunity to try this technique? :') I guess if we really wanted to know, we could exhume his body and have the forensic guys check it out for us. This is reminiscent of the story(joke?) about how one of the Eskrimadors would lock in the opponent's thrust to his stomach. ~Kev ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 12:10:57 -0800 Subject: eskrima: DBIMA Seminar in Florida A Howl of Greeting to All: I will be doing a seminar in Florida for my student and list member Hilton Yam (Ground Zero) and his friend Earl Stewart (Central Florida Knife and Tool). They have asked me to post the following to the Digest: ****************************************************************** Ground Zero and Central Florida Knife and Tool are proud to present... Guro Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny of Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts Marc is a co-founder of "The Dog Brothers" and Head Instructor of Dog Brothers, Inc. Martial Arts (DBIMA). The Dog Brothers are known for their "Real Contact" stick fighting as well as their excellent instructional tape series which is one of Panther Productions' top sellers. Marc, a.k.a. "Guro Crafty", will be teaching us functional fighting concepts and techniques from the innovative training methods of DBIMA; drawing upon the LaCoste-Inosanto blend, Pekiti Tirsia, Lameco, Dog Brother Stickgrappling, as well as the integration of functional silat in stickfighting. If there is an interest, the DBIMA approach to unarmed fighting can be covered too. Learn how to apply your skills with REAL POWER in REAL TIME. Guro Crafty no longer teaches a regular seminar circuit, so don't miss this special chance to get out and train with the "Crafty Dog!" Time: June 19-20, 1999; 10 am - 4 PM (be prompt!) Location: Winter Park, FL Cost: Pre-registered: 2 Days - $125, 1 Day - $70 At the door (call first): 2 Days - $140, 1 Day - $80 To register, contact Earl Stewart/Central Florida Knife and Tool at knifeandtool@mindspring.com or 800/804-0020. Questions may be directed to this forum. Students should bring rattan sticks and dress comfortably. No videotaping allowed! ***************************************************** I will also be doing my annual seminar at DBMA Lakan Guro Isa "Dog" Nick Sacoulas' school in NYC, NY on June 12 and 13. Details to follow. Woof, Guro Crafty ------------------------------ From: szorn@webtv.net (STEVE ZORN) Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:27:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Book on filipino healing arts I was lookin through some of the back issues of the Eskrima Digest and saw a post mentioning a book on the filipino healing arts. Has this book ever been published? Any information is appreciated. Thanks, Steve ------------------------------ From: "gte/tireboy" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:51:27 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Sharp Knives <> Howdy, I think you might have gotten confused about what I call a cheap knife. I used to sell knives for a living: Buck, Case, Boker Tree, even Cold Steel when it started getting popular. I also sold a lot of knives that were around $20 that were great. When I'm talking about a cheap knife, I'm talking about the $5 or less piece of Pakistani or Taiwan garbage you can get that look neat but the metal is about worthless. The metal in these knives is so bad, it doesn't hold an edge at all. My store sharpened knives on a grinder designed for this with ceramic and metal embedded belts. We could sharpen Buck knives (high chromium content makes it hard and difficult to sharpen for most people) easily. We would refuse anything that had a Pakistan or Taiwan stamp on the blade. We could grind away at it, ruin the belt, and all that we would do is grind down to a blade with no edge. Ceramic sticks would just dirty up the sticks with no result. These are what I call a cheap knife and what I figure most American would be knife attackers would be using. Cheap and can look VERY intimidating. They can't cut worth a damn, but are definitely strong enough to stab very effectively. BTW, Taiwanese steel has come a long way in the last 10 years or so. Its a pot shot whether you get a good blade or not with it. Eric ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:46:45 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Neck Breaks Might be wise to consider that it is not necessary to literally break the neck to cause death. When the joints are positioned at the limits of their range of motion, a little more force might disrupt the cervical vertebrae enough to shear some vertebral arteries (imagine an "overzealous" chiropractic move if you will). Result = death. It's not as difficult as we might think. Consider, some people will faint if they hold their heads back in full extension of the neck. This happens because their vertebral arteries close, shutting off a considerable contribution to the brain's blood supply. This is why I teach people to look towards the ceiling when doing standing exercises involving extreme spinal extension (leaning back) ... don'wan'nobody passing out and landing on the back of their head. Looking towards the ceiling prevents draping the neck and reduces the likelihood that some susceptible individual will go to sleep. This and other vulnerabilities of the neck are reasons why I would never allow anyone to jive around with practicing chokes ... some of the cavorting that I've observed on the mat has given me the shivers when I think about what could happen to the players in a meaner situation. Even if the "neck capture" is not pursued to a fatality, very severe injury can be done to the neck just by taking a single vertebra slightly beyond its normal range of motion. Jurisprudence: Imagine what could happen to someone you've put a choke on out in the street if/when they start trying to fight their way out of it ... can you guarantee that you won't disrupt something in the neck as described? If not, then that means you are willing to take the chance that a "nap maker" can turn into a liability (or manslaughter) trial in nothing flat. Sorry to throw these thoughts out there (messin'wif'some people's arsenal, eh?) but we needs to be wise, not just awed by someone's success in the ring. Prior to the rise of NJJ I had never thought of a choke as anything other than a lethal move ... one that someone would either submit to or in the gravest extreme, something that they could not return from ... understanding the neck, it doesn't take much to cause the latter. Remember, a broken neck does not necessarily mean complete disruption like the breaking of an arm or leg -- even survivable but totally incapacitating injury can be caused simply by disrupting a single inter-vertebral joint. Also, it doesn't take much breaking in the neck to shear those arteries, the level of ease is a matter of positioning. I hope that I haven't given anybody the wrong idea here ... but then I haven't said anything new. BTW, anybody playing around with this sort of stuff should be aware that some people have plaques in the vertebral arteries that can break free and cause an immediate stroke. 'Nuff said. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Rudolf Kimbel (100432.650@compuserve.com)" <100432.650@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 03:56:30 -0500 Subject: eskrima: winter knives to:INTERNET:eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com << What knives work best against heavy clothing? >> On another list I read that Applegate made his knife 6" long cause a guy from Finnland told him that he needed a 6" knife for those well made German wintercoats he had to get through to kill the soldier wearing it. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:06:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #40 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.