From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #41 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 31 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 041 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Tai Chi and other idea's eskrima: Re: Tai Chi and other idea's Re: eskrima: Re: Tai Chi and other idea's eskrima: Japanese Knife Story eskrima: Seguidas, Neck brakes & Sparring eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #40 eskrima: Tai Chi fighters eskrima: Re: have you seen these? eskrima: has it? .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:14:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Tai Chi and other idea's >From: >Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:33:42 EST >Subject: eskrima: Tai Chi and other idea's > >Stickman mentioned the aspect of functional tai-chi. I was wondering how many >members out there knew some tai-chi fighters who mixed it up as bouncers, >LEO's, etc. I can only think of William CC Chen. > >Another thing that I would like some opinions on is gun disarms. I dont mean >Texas "Bad Rug" Ranger, kicking the gun hand,.... I mean close quarter >control, stripping, and retention. I have viewed the Randy Wanner tapes from >TRS and the ones from the Russian Speznatz guy in Montreal. They are quite >different in approach. Does anyone have insight from their personal >experience? How about training knowledge from battled hardened >bodyguards(Larry Hartsell,Cliff Stewart) bouncers, LEO's, or war veterans like >Maung Gyi? > >Just wondering,..tcsno@aol.com Functional tai chi? Shuai jiao. Check out the cheng style taiji book and video offered on the USSA homepage. Then find someone or something to toss around. Turiyan -- gold@ij.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 21:14:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Tai Chi and other idea's >From: >Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:33:42 EST >Subject: eskrima: Tai Chi and other idea's > >Stickman mentioned the aspect of functional tai-chi. I was wondering how many >members out there knew some tai-chi fighters who mixed it up as bouncers, >LEO's, etc. I can only think of William CC Chen. > >Another thing that I would like some opinions on is gun disarms. I dont mean >Texas "Bad Rug" Ranger, kicking the gun hand,.... I mean close quarter >control, stripping, and retention. I have viewed the Randy Wanner tapes from >TRS and the ones from the Russian Speznatz guy in Montreal. They are quite >different in approach. Does anyone have insight from their personal >experience? How about training knowledge from battled hardened >bodyguards(Larry Hartsell,Cliff Stewart) bouncers, LEO's, or war veterans like >Maung Gyi? > >Just wondering,..tcsno@aol.com Functional tai chi? Shuai jiao. Check out the cheng style taiji book and video offered on the USSA homepage. Then find someone or something to toss around. Turiyan -- gold@ij.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:26:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Tai Chi and other idea's Please send posts only once to the digest. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 22:51:37 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Japanese Knife Story > Any idea how many times this guy got an opportunity to try this technique? > :') > I guess if we really wanted to know, we could exhume his body and have the > forensic guys check it out for us. > This is reminiscent of the story(joke?) about how one of the Eskrimadors > would lock in the opponent's thrust to his stomach. > > ~Kev > I thought it was pretty much a BS story to Keven, but apparently this guy had 4 or 5 real fights. Now I am sure he was pretty much crippled in his bait hand. But this does sound like it could be true, which is why I was hoping some could verify it. Don't forget Mas Oyama did some pretty incredible things to, of course he to was crippled at a young age. Rocky Chief Instructor Anciongs Original Balintawak Founder Cuentada DeMano ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:39:00 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Seguidas, Neck brakes & Sparring Seguidas: Seguidas (or Segedas - I have had Filipinos give me each spelling) means "bridging" or "to bridge" and is the dividing point between basic and advanced techniques in Pekiti-Tirsia. Seguidas techniques are designed to bridge the gap between ranges. Eric showed 7 Pekiti-Tirsia Seguidas techniques in the first Dog Bros. video. These were from the 1st set of Seguidas, each of the three sets of Seguidas has 12 techniques and are grouped according to range and function: 1st set: Largo. Main targets are the eyes, bridge, temples, weapon hand and lead leg. 2nd set: Medeo. This set involves "scooping" techniques and counters to disarms. 3rd set: Corto. This set involves close quarter attacks like punyos and bayonet strikes as well as chokes and neck breaks with the stick. Seguidas techniques are done two ways. As a straight combination attack and as a two man drill. 1st set drills involve entering and countercuting. 2nd set drills involve stick retention and scooping. 3rd set drills involve changing from one choke to another working on the platform of Segong Labo (similar to Hubud-Hubud). You also see some of the movements from Seguidas in many advanced Pekiti-Tirsia single stick techniques such as Contradas and Recontras as well as in Espada y Daga. I call Seguidas the "bridge" to all advanced Pekiti-Tirsia technique. Neck brakes: The neck brakes I learned in Penchak were not like the ones you see in the movies. You didn't grab the neck and just spin it, but grabbed after a strike as you moved behind the person and fell to the ground letting your body weight do the work (there is a bit more to it than this, but it's hard to describe here). The neck brakes in Pekiti (with and without the stick) are the reverse of the above principle. You are using his body weight to do the work. Sovann is right though, they are much nastier with a stick. In my teens and early 20's I used to adjust friends necks during massage with a technique much like what you see in the movies (I stopped after someone defined the word "liability" to me). A co-worker of a friend supposedly killed himself by adjusting his own neck this way. He didn't break his neck, but punctured either his carotid or his jugular by turning his neck too far. Perhaps this is what the spinning technique is really designed for rather than a true "break". Maybe the medicos out there can elaborate. I have a feeling that it could well take 30 minutes to break a dead goat's neck as Sovann mentioned if you try to "spin" the neck. Sparring: When Grandmaster Gaje started teaching in New York in the early 70's FMAs were relatively unknown on the east coast. When he had us spar we just assumed it was the norm to go full contact, after all we were training for combat. He had us warm up for a short period with range sparring then went right to full contact. We used Kendo headgear and either football armguards or Kempo gloves for our hands. Grandmaster Gaje often seemed to believe in the "throw the kid in the deep end of the pool and he will learn to swim" school of thought when it came to sparring (especially at seminars). After a day of drills he would often bring out the headgear and toss it to two guys and say "time to spar". They would be nervous at first, but once they got into it the new guys usually went right at it full bore. When the headgear was taken off you would usually see an expression on their faces like you see on someone after his first successful parachute jump. When you first do full contact weapons sparring you expect it to hurt a lot, but you really don't notice much in the midst of sparring. You might get your bell rung, but it really doesn't "hurt" the way you think it would (getting hit like that when you are "cold" would be a different story). When Pekiti-Tirsia people first got into stick tournaments I think we were in a similar possession to BJJ. The Gracies were the among the few expert grapplers in the early UFC matches, and Pekiti people were among the few going full contact with weapons. Just being agressive and hitting hard would win you half the battle in those early stick tournaments. Now thanks to the Dog Bros. videos the cat's out of the bag - you can do full contact stick sparring and live to tell about it. If you are worried about injury (and the older I get, the more I worry about it) just spar in good protective armor. If you are a young man sparring to develop and test your courage than you may want to use as little armor as possible. But if you are sparring to develop combat skills then use as much armor as you want as long as it doesn't hinder your movements. Use sparring to practice hitting a moving target as hard as you can as fast as you can without getting hit yourself. Don't worry if your opponent doesn't fall down right away, they might not fall down right away in real life either. Once you get used to the idea that getting hit doesn't hurt as much as you expected and you have confidence in your courage under fire, I don't think you need to test your courage each and every time you spar. Save wear and tear on your body, armor up, develop your skills and HAVE FUN!!! Regards, Bill ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:31:37 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #40 In a message dated 99-01-30 21:06:14 EST, you write: << On another list I read that Applegate made his knife 6" long cause a guy from Finnland told him that he needed a 6" knife for those well made German wintercoats he had to get through to kill the soldier wearing it. >> Actually the way I heard it from the Colonel was that the guy from Finland told him it had to be long enough to get to the heart from any direction. I don't remember if that was six or eight ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 04:42:32 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Tai Chi fighters In SF, Sifu Bill Chin (teaches in Golden Gate Park) used to be a hard core gangster. Also, my Tai Chi teacher, the late John Wong, was tough (former Marine, 5th+ Dan in 4 Kenpo/Kajukenbo systems), and some of his students did REAL well with Tai Chi. One guy, 6 months training, got cornered by some gorilla in a bar, and took him out with some quick pressure points (then was too embarassed to tell Uncle John about it :) Some of these guys (John Wong, Marc Sabin) were also proficient in "hard" arts, which certainly put some yang in their Yang, but the student mentioned above was an m.a. novice. In any case, the Tai Chi worked and was, for these guys, their mode of expression. Marc is pretty seasoned, but a MUCH stronger fighter now than in his Kenpo days. While discussing this on an FMA forum might seem a bit odd, I find that the FMA crosses boundaries with a great many arts, both hard and soft, and Tai Chi well applied goes deep into some of those "attributes" that JKDers bring to the table. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:19:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: have you seen these? I haveseen 2 fighting style knives thatI would appreciate any info on.They are both made by R.E.K.A.T. I think. One is the "Pocket Hobbit", the other is the "Escalator". If you have seen these or had an opportunity to test these out I would like to know what you thought of them. They are semi high dollar items and I don't care to buy something that is not practical and useful. Thanks for any help. Tommy Baker watuswarrior@webtv.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 08:14:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: has it? Has the Super Bowl started yet??? :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #41 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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