From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #42 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 31 Jan 1999 Vol 06 : Num 042 In this issue: eskrima: Re: just a few recommnedations eskrima: Re: Applegate Combat Knife eskrima: Re: Functional Tai Chi eskrima: Tai Chi Fighting eskrima: Tai Chi Hobbits eskrima: Majordomo FAQ eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:44:34 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: just a few recommnedations leighans@aol.com.........................dont know if this has any relevance to you catch-as-catch-can discussion, but i ran across a book from ned beaumont called 'kill-as-catch-can'.....loompanics unltd carries it.............speaking of knives and old WWII guys from the oss.........capt fairbairn put out a book called 'get tough'.....it is very very basic stuff....but the interesting part is the diagram of the human body withe the major arteries and veins.......he lists the depths below the skin surface and approximate time for death to follow.....dont really know how valid it is, but it does make one pause to think a bit........if you are interested......the catalog is $5(and worth it, just for the entertainment value alone)....write to.....loompanics unlimited....po box 1197.....port townsend, wa 98368........ ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:13:56 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Applegate Combat Knife In WW2, the Finnish Commandos/Resistance also used the traditional knives of their country called puukkos. The blade length was 7" to 8". Kelvin Williams kel620@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:28:53 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Functional Tai Chi In a message dated 1/31/99 11:12:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > >Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:33:42 EST > >Subject: eskrima: Tai Chi and other idea's > > > >Stickman mentioned the aspect of functional tai-chi. I was wondering how > many > >members out there knew some tai-chi fighters who mixed it up as bouncers, > >LEO's, etc. I can only think of William CC Chen. > > One of the most formidable martial artists I have ever met was a Tai Chi stylist named Gin Soon, back in Boston during the early 60's. My then karate teacher had begun studying with the man and after seeing him do the 20 minute Yang long set, I asked the question how one could get that proficient simply by doing a 20 minute set. His answer was "Do 20 of them a day". That, I think makes all the difference. It is probably a truism that only a small percentage of those who practice a martial art, any martial art, ever attain enough proficiency to actually perform under the stress of lethal force. That is as true for the "external" arts as for the so-called "internal" ones. But practicing the external we can cheat a little, because when practiced at the lower levels, using muscle, most of us have a birthright of at least some muscle, and many of us have a lot more. Hence, even a big strong neophyte can wail heavily with a stick. Even though this does not exaust any of the nuance of a system, it can still be dangerous. But the percentage of those who ever get past using mere muscle is quite small in my opinion. In something like Tai Chi, or Ba Gua, where the goal is to "invest in loss" and not use muscle, I believe an even smaller percentage ever develop competence. A lot of people practice the "nei chia" for health reasons, or whatever, but using skill in a fight is near virtuoso performance and that kind of ability is just not widely distributed. So we end up with the situtation that someone who goes to Escrima, or to karate, three times a week, and who already has some muscle is using skill (rather than muscle) far less than someone who is teaching and training several hours a day and works on an entirely different level. Muscle and aerobic work give a lot of feedback, much of which is addicting, but it may or may not have anything to do with skill. Someone who goes to Tai Chi for their three classes per week just isn't going to have anything to work with, probably not even muscle, when confronted. But the fact remains that two of the most formidable men I ever crossed arms with were from the internal school. One, the aforementioned Gin Soon, for whom I was cannon fodder, kept me airborn for most of the hours I worked with him. I was big and strong, would walk up to him and try to hit, kick or grab him in whatever fashion I wished, and then I would go airborne and slam backwards into the 1" plywood that was fixed to the back brick wall. It was shocking and sobering. He could do the same thing with a sword which was even more amazing. He also trained and taught about 8 hours a day. The second man, my Aikido teacher, was simply untouchable, with or without a weapon and was very, very tough. With him it was pretty much irrelevant how hard you hit him, he was never there. Grappling with him didn't work much better. But while they were impressive, it is true that most of the Tai Chi and Aikido practitioners I have met, have not been great fighters (they just don't invest the time), but I think the same is true of most of the people in most systems. This makes the skill of some of the smaller teachers, like many of the Filipinos and Okinawans, all that much more impressive. Americans, until they get old, rarely get past using the strength of their arms. They tend to stand still and move their arms, while in the internal arts, one tends to move the feet and not rely on the arms. This is more natural when blades are used, since it is not such a good idea to bash blade against blade. Back when Tai Chi, Pa Kua, and Hsing I, were taught as martial arts, practice was often three hours plus per day, and was very, very exausting and demanding. The students were often bodyguards, or convoy guards, life was dangerous, they had to be proficient against multiple attackers, and both with and without weapons. Very few people practice anything to that extent any more. Only with the advent of peace can we afford the luxury of specificity, such as ground work, or stick sparring. Bob Galeone ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 09:41:45 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Tai Chi Fighting >Functional tai chi? Shuai jiao. Check out the cheng style taiji book and >video offered on the USSA homepage. We have a Shuai Jiao grandmaster here in the Bay Area, and some of my students cross trained with him. It's brutally effective, but I wouldn't call it Tai Chi Chuan ....... BTW, Marc Sabin's current teacher, Patrick Lee, does Chen (Cheng?) Style. The level of push hands that I just experienced would be perfect for a bouncer. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Michael Melone" Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 19:08:20 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Tai Chi Hobbits Stickman wrote: >In any case, the Tai Chi worked and was, for these guys, their mode of expression. While discussing this on an FMA forum might seem a bit odd, I find that the FMA crosses boundaries with a great many arts, both hard and soft, and Tai Chi well applied goes deep into some of those "attributes" that JKDers bring to the table.< I’ve recently begun training in Yang style Tai Chi along with my wife. Its a way for her to be involved with me in martial arts on a level she feels she can relate to more than swinging a stick. I’ve been very pleased to find that Tai Chi integrates well with my FMA. The emphasis on circular motion is an almost direct correlation to stickfighting. Tommy Baker: >I have seen 2 fighting style knives that I would appreciate any info on.They are both made by R.E.K.A.T. I think. One is the "Pocket Hobbit", the other is the "Escalator". If you have seen these or had an opportunity to test these out I would like to know what you thought of them.< You might want to check out the knife reviews section of Bladeforums and/or Knifeforums. They both have search engines so you can check out their archives. http://www.bladeforums.com/ http://www.knifeforums.com/ Ciao Mike GET YOUR OWN FREE, PRIVATE E-MAIL ACCOUNT FROM RECYCLER.COM -- FREE CLASSIFIEDS, FREE AUCTIONS, AND LOTSA R'COMMUNITY -- HTTP://WWW.RECYCLERMAIL.COM ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:48:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Majordomo FAQ When people are first subscribed onto the Eskrima-Digest they are supposed to receive the attached automatically. Given the 'from' line problem we've been having the past few months, many have not received this through the normal automatic process. Thus it is attached for your information. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24 Jan 99 Frequently Asked Questions __________________________ ############################################################################## ## Keep this info for future reference. ## ## You are responsible for understanding the following. ## ############################################################################## Q: I just joined this list. Now what do I do? A: Just sit back and watch the messages fly by for awhile. You'll soon figure out how things work on your own. It is recommended that your read the list for about a month prior to posting to the list. Q: I don't know how to send or receive e-mail. How do I learn? A: You are expected to well understand e-mail sending and receiving if you are a member of this list. Sorry, but please unsubscribe from the list and rejoin us once you've learned. 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Copyright (C) 1994-99, Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource. http://www.MartialArtsResource.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 12:49:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #42 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.