From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #44 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 1 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 044 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #43 eskrima: Chang Tai Chi eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #43 eskrima: Combat Skills - Armor; Courage? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #41 eskrima: stick judo eskrima: Hilot eskrima: ED V6 #33 - Federal Law Question eskrima: Eskrima: Re: Functional Tai Chi eskrima: Eskrima: Re: Functional Tai Chi eskrima: Concurrence & eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:15:45 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #43 In a message dated 2/1/99 7:01:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << fairbairn put out a book called 'get tough'.....it is very very basic stuff....but the interesting part is the diagram of the human body withe the major arteries and veins.......he lists the depths below the skin surface and approximate time for death to follow.....dont really know how valid it is >> greetings to all..... in regards to the above book.... does anybody know how valid it is??? also can anybody else recommend any books with similar information?? >> GET TOUGH, W.E. Fairbairn DO OR DIE, Drexel Biddle, and of course KILLED OR GET KILLED, Rex Applegate are the three classics on these subjects that almost at as a set. Whether there is always soundness in their "combative" logic or early 20th century -- er -- shall we say ethnocentrism (to use a nice word) is wholly another matter. All three are available from Paladin. James Loriega New York Ninpokai kurokuwa@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:55:30 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Chang Tai Chi At least the shorter form of Chang's Tai Chi is a modified version of a Yang form, the standardized Simplified aka "Beijing") Form created by the PRC in 1951. I once spoke with Grandmaster David Lin about it, he told me: "We can show you how to use your Tai Chi." Lin is one of Chang Deng-Sheng's direct students/disciples. The form is almost identical to the Beijing form, some angles are different, etc., but it is easily recognizable via sequence of techniques. There is a direct path from Tai Chi Tui Shou (Push Hands) to Chin Na (grappling) and Shuai Chiao (throwing/breaking). Many of the techniques in the various forms of differing Tai Chi styles are straightforward grappling and throwing maneuvers. A different Master Lin,.responsible for my knowledge of Tai Chi (I don't know much ... first thing that I had to learn after getting to the instructor thing in kung fu) once told me that some people move too slow in practicing Tai Chi ... should be like FMA Carrenza maybe. Slower movement maybe for "meditators." Moderate pace is where we refine the motor links for application. Move too slow and there's not much if anything for the kinesthetic sense to refine and remember. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:59:06 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #43 In a message dated 99-02-01 10:05:02 EST, you write: << Bouncers should defintly concentrate more on the push hands and chin-na stuff rather than breaking people's necks... :) >> Unfortunately most bouncers are one of two things:1) a law suit waiting to happen or 2) dog meat on the hoof. While many claim to be trained, most are only vaguely trained in some hard impact style. Most rely on size, brawn and lousy attitudes. In short, the only reason most succeed is that it really isn't that hard to take out your average drunk. If someone who knows what they are doing comes along, most bouncers go down. What has always scared me the most however is how most bouncers refuse to learn any thing new. Modified versions of Tai chi, aikido, silat, kuntao, wing chun and kali are all extremely effective in the bar environment, studying any of these arts would help. As all of them have aspects of trapping and can be modified to be extremely effective without causing damage. Why the idea of them studying these arts are good, what you will discover the attitude of most bouncers is "I know what I'm doing" proving the old adage "the most closed mind is one that thinks it already knows the truth." Or that the bar owners attitude of "I don't want to pay for it" (which is easily understood as many consider bouncers necessary evils that they hate paying for - - therefore most bouncers are part time and not very professional). Unfortunately there are very few full time professional bouncers who would be open to this sort of thing. Which is pretty scary when you've seen the bozo brigade in action as much as I have and know that is exactly what they need. ------------------------------ From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\" Sardinas" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:00:50 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Combat Skills - Armor; Courage? The following is an edited version of what Tuhon Bill McGrath in the subject "eskrima: Seguidas, Neck brakes & Sparring" wrote under the "Sparring" component (Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #41): "If you are worried about injury (and the older I get, the more I worry about it) just spar in good protective armor. If you are a young man sparring to develop and test your courage than you may want to use as little armor as possible. But if you are sparring to develop combat skills then use as much armor as you want as long as it doesn't hinder your movements.... Once you get used to the idea that getting hit doesn't hurt as much as you expected and you have confidence in your courage under fire, I don't think you need to test your courage each and every time you spar....." IMO, The only real thing protective armor does (if it works) is prevent injury. Wearing armor does not help develop combat skills or courage. If you really want to develop skills and courage I recommend that only your opponent wears the armor. No one should ever become used to or comfortable with getting hit. I agree that courage need not be tested every time you spar. However as I get older, slower and hopefully wiser, I know that armor will not enhance any skill or courage. The only thing it will give you is a BIG false sense of security. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:48:22 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #41 [on the 6" dagger] >Actually the way I heard it from the Colonel was that the guy from Finland >told him it had to be long enough to get to the heart from any direction. I >don't remember if that was six or eight My first Silat teacher, Brandt Bollers, always says "Your knife should be long enough to reach to the bottom of a peanut butter jar." Todd ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:49:36 -0700 Subject: eskrima: stick judo Turiyan wrote: "To put things more on topic. Is'nt there a stick judo? Judo throws using sticks? Now, i'd like to see more of that." GM Cacoy Canete of Doce Pares has developed an entire system of stick judo which he calls eskrido. I believe this has been discussed at length on this list before. (In addition to >60 years eskrima training, he is a Kodakan judo black belt.) Steve Wolk swolk@nexstar.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:46:56 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Hilot > is some of the info. on hilot related to shiatsu or trad. >Chinese medicine so by studying those discilplines one could get a clue on >hilot? Yes, there is some relationship. After all, the human body is the human body. When I was in the RP, I had some treatments for a shoulder injury, and they did seem to use a combination of pressure points and shiatsu-like massage. Also, many of these guys have studied a variety of systems. Case in point - GM Sam Tendencia, who spent time post-war in Japan and is well versed in a number of their healing and martial arts. However, what he does goes beyond what I've seen/heard from most (though not all) other sources, specifically his methods and theories about manipulating the muscle fascia to relieve binding of tissues. There are some on this list (Tommy the Whip and, I believe, Crafty) who have experienced his work first hand. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Jerome Barber" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:15:27 EST Subject: eskrima: ED V6 #33 - Federal Law Question Dear Glen, Could you please give us the citation for the Federal Law that you are referring to regarding the 4" length blade and concealed carry. Thanks, Dr. Jerome Barber > In regards to the fixed blade I believe that federal law allows for > it to be concealed IF it is under 4" in length. Anything longer than > that, and it will have to be carried openly. > Glenn_A._Hecko@oxy.com ------------------------------ From: "Joshua Hutchinson" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:23:17 PST Subject: eskrima: Eskrima: Re: Functional Tai Chi I am on the road( & a long way from the top) to becoming an Inayan Eskrimador. I have been involved in martial arts for years. Besides, Eskrima, I have always loved( and dabbled in) Tai- Chi and Shuai Chiao. So, I've cross-trained off and on with various Tai Chi/ Shuai Chiao instructors, between my other martial arts... About eight months ago, I got an opportunity to train in Ch'ang Style Tai Chi, with a certain Dr. Weng. I trained for a good four months, and really loved how Dr. Weng taught Tai Chi with a combatitive edge to it, which is so rare these days. On a couple of occassions, Dr. Weng asked me to come train at one of his schools. I didn't want to disrespect my Guro's, so I thought I'd wait awhile before looking him up. Great, right?!? Just recently, I realized who Dr. Weng really was the same Dr. Chi-Hsiu Daniel Weng( 8th degree Shuai-Chiao Black Belt and President of U.S Shuai-Chiao Association) that introduced Shuai-Chiao to the U.S.! I can't believe that I never put one and one together! Anyway, he is good, his Tai Chi is functional, and he's in the Bay Area. I know that he has 1) school in S.F. and 1) in Mountain View(?) and in addition teaches at San Jose State and De Anza College. That's my two cents worth. Mabuhay Ang Eskrima!!! ~Fry Bread Boy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Joshua Hutchinson" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:36:04 PST Subject: eskrima: Eskrima: Re: Functional Tai Chi I am on the road( & a long way from the top) to becoming an Inayan Eskrimador. I have been involved in martial arts for years. Besides, Eskrima, I have always loved( and dabbled in) Tai- Chi and Shuai Chiao. So, I've cross-trained off and on with various Tai Chi/ Shuai Chiao instructors, between my other martial arts... About eight months ago, I got an opportunity to train in Ch'ang Style Tai Chi, with a certain Dr. Weng. I trained for a good four months, and really loved how Dr. Weng taught Tai Chi with a combat edge to it, which is so rare these days. On a couple of occassions, Dr. Weng asked me to come train at one of his schools. I didn't want to disrespect my Guro's, so I thought I'd wait awhile before looking him up. Great, right?!? Just recently, I realized who Dr. Weng really was the same Dr. Chi-Hsiu Daniel Weng( 8th degree Shuai-Chiao Black Belt and President of U.S Shuai-Chiao Association) that introduced Shuai-Chiao to the U.S.! I can't believe that I never put one and one together! Anyway, he is good, his Tai Chi is functional, and he's in the Bay Area. I know that he has 1) school in S.F. and 1) in Mountain View(?) and in addition teaches at San Jose State and De Anza College. That's my two cents worth. Mabuhay Ang Eskrima!!! ~Fry Bread Boy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:07:17 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Concurrence & A Howl etc: Bill McG wrote: > Sparring: > > When Grandmaster Gaje started teaching in New York in the early 70's FMAs > were relatively unknown on the east coast. When he had us spar we just > assumed it was the norm to go full contact, after all we were training > for combat. If you look at Eric's dedication to GT Gaje at the end of the DB vids, you will see it include something to the effect " , , , and for convincing me that all this was normal." A teacher who can do this for his students can save them 40 years of wandering in the desert. >When Pekiti-Tirsia people first got into stick tournaments I think we were in > a similar possession (sic) to BJJ. The Gracies were the among the few expert > grapplers in the early UFC matches, and Pekiti people were among the few > going full contact with weapons. Just being agressive and hitting hard > would win you half the battle in those early stick tournaments. Now thanks to > the Dog Bros. videos the cat's out of the bag - you can do full contact stick > sparring and live to tell about it. Agreed, but I would distinguish what we do from tournaments and would distinguish what we do from sparring. Indeed, we date our inception to the three consecutive days of fighting 10 years ago when, in our opinion, we moved from hard sparring to what can fairly be called fighting. Of course it is not a death match or a defense of one's anal virginity in prison, but if boxing is a fight, if kickboxing is a fight, if a cagefight without biting and eye gouging is a fight, I do think we measure up to the common usage of the term. > If you are worried about injury (and the older I get, the more I worry > about it) just spar in good protective armor. If you are a young man sparring > to develop and test your courage than you may want to use as little armor as > possible. But if you are sparring to develop combat skills then use as > much armor as you want as long as it doesn't hinder your movements. Use > sparring to practice hitting a moving target as hard as you can as fast as you can > without getting hit yourself. Don't worry if your opponent doesn't fall > down right away, they might not fall down right away in real life either. Once > you get used to the idea that getting hit doesn't hurt as much as you > expected and you have confidence in your courage under fire, I don't > think you need to test your courage each and every time you spar. Save wear and > tear on your body, armor up, develop your skills and HAVE FUN!!! I agree whole heartedly and I'm a lot older than Bill! For several years, deceived by foolishly believing people who said they wanted to fight more often, we would try to put on a winter Gathering too (Known as the "Hanukkah in Hermosa Gathering") but frankly, twice a year seems to be what most people, and certainly most of us old geezers are up to these days. Changing subjects, Tom Furman wrote: "As Dan Inosanto said,.."Talent is God-given, .. be thankful!"...I am well aware of the natural attributes that some are born with. Maybe Crafty could elaborate on the training methods used by Chris Poznik for strength, Big Irv, for durability,...or Top Dog for power and entering with his kangaroo, etc. You mentioned on your tapes about cultivation and maintenance, and your former instructor, Paul Vunak, concentrates on attribute development. How about letting the masses in on the plyometrics, strength, and endurance angles??" While Poz's strength starts out as a gift from the gods, it certainly has been cultivated by decades of serious wrestling. People who train in the grappling arts tend to develop their functional strength potential. The Poz also has undergone some unusual strength training, but I'm at a loss as to how to describe it-- moving isometrics? but that's an oxymoron. Also, draw what conclusions you may, many surfers are surprisingly strong, at least upper body. Back in the mid 80s there was this guy who I knew who supported his life of surfing by dealing cocaine. Often he would dip into inventory pretty hard. Although he never lifted weights with any consistency or focus, even after 2-3 days of no sleep, and I mean No Sleep, he could rip off 27 clean chin ups or swim 2-3 miles in the ocean. Top Dog's power I would attribute not so much to strength, (I could lift more than him in most movements in the gym the last time we lifted together) but rather the really good body mechanics he learned from GT Gaje as well as , , , well, let's leave that out for now. Indeed, in my month training with him I feel he helped my mechanics a lot. I don't consider myself to be particularly strong, (although considering my age and late start--around 28 and 167 lbs. for strength training-- I am not without result)-- so I really don't consider myself as really suitable in this regard for pontification ;-). I think I have some insights that are not without merit, but they are tangential to strength, which was your question. Plyometrics I have dabbled with, but given the alignment problems I still have from my knee injury of 1992, so I can't really push it, and again do not see myself as really qualified. Endurance? I'm really f%^&*g lazy, and until I got into BJJ with Rigan whipping me into shape, was never really in decent shape. The knee injury has been a big problem in this regard too. Because I was on one leg for virtually a year from three surgeries which replaced my ACL, PCL and LCL ligaments with tendons from cadavers, substantial imbalances and misalignments in my muscular skeletal structure developed and high rep training (e.g. running, Stairmaster, bicycle, etc) has a strong tendency to knock my sacrum (the bone that connects the spine and hips) out of alignment as my right pelvis rotates forward etc) This REALLY SUCKS and sets my training back A LOT whenever it happens. Grrrrr. When I have been in a good groove with my BJJ, my endurance is not bad, but again its nothing to entitle me to pontificate. I find other forms of endurance training intensely boring (right foot, left foot, OK got it) whereas the BJJ is fun as well as functional. Vunak's articulation of the importance of attributes-- which is core JKDC theory BTW, is excellent and he certainly has done a very good job of cultivating his. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:36:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #44 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.