From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 4 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 050 In this issue: eskrima: Chokes eskrima: Re: Animal on knives and arteries eskrima: TAPADO TOURNAMENT eskrima: Re: Kris question Re: eskrima: Re: Kris question eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 eskrima: Rat a tat tan eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 eskrima: Krav Maga eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 eskrima: training/ccc eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1000+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kalki Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 08:24:44 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Chokes Tenrec makes a good point re: microdamage ... got me thinking (for a change :-) ... what's the difference between starving the brain of oxygen via choke and starving the brain of oxygen via a stroke (aside from the fact that the chioke may involve only temporary oxygen deprivation)? H'mmm... I think that our culture does not promote appreciation for the fine aspects of things. Like, getting choked and starving the brain of oxygen ... how does that affect the brain at a low, i.e., cellular, level? I dunno. Can't be good as a repeated experience, even though a practitioner might feel OK about their return to consciousness. Perhaps the effects of temporary oxygen starvation are not as severe as the effects of drinking large quantities of alcohol. I wouldn't volunteer m'self for the research/comparison. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:34:49 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Animal on knives and arteries This summer I spent an interesting morning being lectured to by a cop with a graduate degree in forensic science. Pictures were provided, and almost everyone skipped lunch afterwards :-O**** It confirmed a couple things that my teachers have learned through bitter experience: 1) It is incredibly easy to injure or kill someone if you know what you are doing 2) It is a lot harder to stop them quickly 3) If you stab, wiggle the blade around a lot or there is a very good chance you won't be able to get it back. Muscle, skin, and other tissue swell up often so hard that the knife can't be retrieved. As Brandt says "Pretend it's a gear shift. Go all the way from neutral to fifth a couple times." ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 13:47:29 +0000 Subject: eskrima: TAPADO TOURNAMENT As I see there have been so many recent postings about Tapado I thought that I would mention the following: On June 19th & 20th at the University Of Delaware in Newark DE. there will be a Tapado tournament for all those who like to fight with the dual grip long stick. Divisions are as follows: Novice, Intermediate & Advanced in 4 weight classes: Light, Middle, Heavy & Super Heavy The Tapado fights are 3 minutes long non-stop with no body armor, only elbow & knee pads, gloves & a Fencing Mask. The Tapado Divisions are part of the WKC World Kali Championships, we will also have Solo Baston, Doble Baston, Knife, Espada Y Daga, Dumpag (Empty Hands like Vale Tudo) and Halo-Halo (mixed weapons, nun-chaku, tonfa, stick, 3 sect., ect.) All weapons must be made of Rattan. For a Free Packet on this event call 1-800-879-4574 or write: DATU Inc. PO Box 9562 Newark DE. 19714 e-mail: datu@erols.com ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 10:39:37 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Kris question >I just acquired what is obviously a Muslem (formerly known as Moro) Kris >with a hand-forged blade -- looks like a looser version of damascus (not >as many folds?). My question is anybody care to venture a guess as to >how common these are? I've seen many spring steel or at least not folded >metal ones. age? I've got a decent collection of weapons from the Muslim Phillipines, Krises, Barongs, Kampilans, Piraa(sp?) and a couple of other things. Almost all of them are pattern-welded steel. Maybe some of them are Wootz, but I'm not enough of a metallurgist to tell for sure. ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:56:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Kris question >I just acquired what is obviously a Muslem (formerly known as Moro) Kris >with a hand-forged blade -- looks like a looser version of damascus (not >as many folds?). My question is anybody care to venture a guess as to >how common these are? I've seen many spring steel or at least not folded >metal ones. age? As Todd just mentioned finding a Filipino kris blade with a pattern is not at all uncommon. Age? Who knows... I have several that are 40+ years old, some ~100. Old pics of some of mine are shown on the eskrima side of http://www.martialartsresource.com. Just look toward the bottom of the list of links. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "jallen@tac.coe.unt.edu (Jeff Allen)" Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 15:37:17 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 From: "JYCHOW.AU.ORACLE.COM" Date: 03 Feb 99 15:57:07 +1100 Subject: eskrima: re Tai Chi and Internal Strength My coment concerning Allen's queries:- > on PG Edgar Sulite and TAi Chi > >>PG Sulite learnt Wu Style in Philippines. He also knows a little Hsing Yi >>and Yi Chuan from Master David in Binondo (Manila's Chinatown). >>PG Sulite and I exchanged some secrets when I visited him in 1993 in LA. >>He showed me how he train his internal power from Hsing Yi. He said he >>has shown only 1 person prior. Don't know how many he has shown since then.= Let me start by say that this is a post that I started not to write, but Cecil's later post made up my mind. > [snip] >Plus, and no disrespect here, but Dr. Gyi is getting up there in years. The >because my old boxing coach just passed away last week. His name was Paavo >Kentonen and he was incredible. He was also a judo expert. He took most of his >knowledge with him, and it saddened me alot, especially when there wasn't much >I could do about it. I don't want to see that repeated, you know? >Cecil Burch Here goes. I continue to be amaze at the number of secrets or secret techniques in the martial arts world....FMA included. These are techniques that can't be passed on to you until you are considered "worthy" by the teacher. These secrets might just be to - wiggle the knife once your in there. But teachers holding back these "secret" lead many student to think that there really is a "magic knife" technique that is the secret to the art. Whole arts are based on this concept of secret techniques. I would hypothesize that in many (most or all) of these cases that the secret is just an ADVANCED TECHNIQUE as opposed to a BASIC TECHNIQUE of the art. An art's advance techniques become lost with the death of the teacher. Thus the art isn't "as good as it use to be." Age and hard knocks will finally teach you most of the secrets, but can be more appropriately be learned through an open and competent teacher. Are there techniques that should not be taught. Probably, but this is typically based on age appropriateness, character appropriateness, or prerequisite competencies. Maybe I'm off base......but students need some of the "secrets" so they can keep themselves alive. Too many teachers IMO fail at their duties as a teacher by failing to teach their material. I want students to be better than me . . . even at the risk of having to teach my defensive and offensive secrets to them . . . they may use them inappropriately at some point (against me or others). In todays era, they may even falsely use my copyrighted materials as their own. As a university faculty member I keep the following quote in my office to remind me of my job duties: "To talk in public, to think in solitude, to read and to hear, to inquire and to answer inquires, that is the business of a scholar." - Samuel Jackson. Read the quote a few times, and I think it covers the bases for scholars and teachers of the martial arts. I also created the following definitions to keep me and my students humble: "A basic technique is any technique that you know and an advanced technique is any technique that you don't know." It just depend on your level of knowledge. For the FMA to continue, we must have instructors that are willing to teach both the basic and advanced techniques for the art to continue in the rich form that it currently exist. The FMA cannot afford "secrets". I'll stop there...if you want a further explanation on my view. . . send an email. Thanks. Jeff Allen jallen@unt.edu [45 trailing blank lines deleted.] ------------------------------ From: "Virginia Martial Arts" Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:27:04 -0300 Subject: eskrima: Rat a tat tan Here I is. www.dls.net/~vama/eskrima - --- See you in the sticks, Dale Hinton ------------------------------ From: Daniel McConnell Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 19:37:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 I remember someone recently posting an add. to post seminars on. does anyone remember what that add. was? You can mail me privately if you like, and thank you. Daniel McConnell Modern Arnis of Ohio ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:14:57 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Krav Maga To all: I have heard that Krav Maga is based on natural body movements. Is this true? Does anybody know if any FMA is included in this art? Anybody familiar with this art? Butch ------------------------------ From: "Sanford" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:24:12 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 A few thoughts on armor, kicking in a stick fight, and two handed weapons: Wearing armor or padding seems to be a matter of personal choice to me, there are days I just don't feel like taking a whacking and I don't mind a bit padding up, often I will wear a heavy glove and no other padding, just because I really need my hands to work. Other times I don't wear anything, hand or elsewhere. I think it's a matter of where you want to go in your training. I like to fight, so I will train harder with less gear to be able to fight better. If you don't feel the need to fight or test yourself, why worry about how much gear you have on? Have fun with what you do. I've heard it said that your training has to reflect real life. How many of you out there have used your training in a real life situation? (not including those who put themselves in harms way ) Do you need your skills in your job, law enforcement etc? Do you just like a good fight? Do you not want to take a chance on breaking something ( I build cabinets; no hands, no work)? All these things can determine how you train. In the end, I say just have a good time. Kicking against a weapon is a hard thing to do, your timing has to be perfect and it needs to be set up right. If you're off or not kicking right, you're going to get hit. One of the things that attracted me to the Thai weapons was that kicking, kneeing, elbows,etc were integrated in to the training from day one and were considered as important as the weapon. One of the tapes in the up-coming second series will deal with kicking and drills to accomplish the kick without getting hit. Once you get it, kicking can really add to your arsenal. My comparisons on two handed weapons would be a little limited. The exposure I've had to Tapado was watching Eric fight double stick against the heavy Tapado stick. Eric had no trouble dominating the fight,to a certain extent just because Eric is Eric, but also to my eye, the Tapado was limited in it's attacks and fairly easy to read. ( No offense intended to Tapado practicioners, I've only seen it fought twice and never trained, so my observations are based solely on those fights.) The Thai training I've done with two handed weapons were long staff, long spear, and,my favorite, short spear. Of these, the short spear seemed most usefull. It was designed to be used on horse back. Some had a short rope that allowed you to throw the spear and have the rope catch at the end to retrieve the spear. They are around 42 to 48 inches long with a spear point ( a nice thing to have on the end of your stick) so they can be swung one or two handed and are taught both ways. As in all the Thai stuff it's full power, all directions, all parts of the weapon and body are used to attack and you fight against multiple opponents. I enjoyed working with the short spear very much but as that's pretty much the only formal training I have in longer weapons, I don't have a lot to compare with. Arlan ------------------------------ From: "Greg McFerren" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:35:49 -1000 Subject: eskrima: training/ccc >We always teach our students to realize is that you will fight according to >how you train. And since you won't use padding in a real fight....... > I had to think about this for a little..I believe in the concept of this statement but do not feel it covers all aspects of training. Since we were talking about sticks, I'll keep with that... Does anyone when doing Sumbradas, Box Patterns or Sinawall Drills hit the other person's hand every time? or try too? I know when we drill we target the stick, knowing that in RL we would target the hand. I don't think I could take several hours a day with continual hits to the hand and then be able to train in anything ( ie Kali, Muay Thai or grappling) the next day. But on the same note, after targeting the stick for some time, when I did pad up, I found it harder to hit the hand then I thought it would be. For me, being able to use pads lets me work on simple things like targeting the hand for long periods of time without hurtting the other person, so we can train again the next day. Hopefully making my muscle map memory better each day. I also believe you do need to do some no pad training after, to stop getting hit as often with pads. Just my thoughts :) but always willing to try something new:) Also, last Tuesday here in Hawaii we had the Super Brawl VI NHB with Modified Pankration Rules.. It was a very good time with some really good figthers. Since we had a thread about " catch-as catch-can" wrestling (CCC) I thought I would share this. There was a female fight and one of the women ( Manuela "Lu" Wilp) from Berlin was introduced as a CCC specialist.. without the discussion about CCC going on, I would of had no idea what the hell that was.. I watched her during her fight but did not see anything different from normal NHB figths ( but I would not know what to look for in CCC anyway). Is there a person in Germany that teaches CCC? ...She had a good fight but lost.. still was very impressive. Greg ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:11:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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