From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #51 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 5 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 051 In this issue: eskrima: re Internal Power / Chi eskrima: The short spear eskrima: opps eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #48 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #48 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #48 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 eskrima: FMA needs n Krav Maga eskrima: ears eskrima: Krav Maga eskrima: Krav maga eskrima: Krav Maga eskrima: old stuff eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1000+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JYCHOW.AU.ORACLE.COM" Date: 05 Feb 99 12:59:05 +1100 Subject: eskrima: re Internal Power / Chi Jeff Finder wrote:- >Really, a lot of what you could say about internal applies to external. >You use the whole body ... you use breathing .... Hard styles focus more, >at least initially, on forceful muscular power, and soft styles on >relaxation. Agreed. Using the whole body, superior positioning, structural alignment are prerequisites in the training of martial arts Chi Kung. This is found in all genuine martial arts. However, that are not 'Chi'. If these factors are present, the training and consequently, the issue of Chi is easy. Everybody has Chi. Some have more. If posture is faultless, then the effect is greater. Simple reasoning. But Chi is Chi, not posture. Chi uses the posture to take effect. This is a misunderstanding of some new Tai Chi masters. I also agree with Jeff Finder in implying that Hard arts also have Chi and internal development. Many Tai Chi practitioners mistakenly think that soft =3D internal, hard =3D external. This is a simplistic view. I know for sure, basically all CMA are internal. Hardness/softness is a matter of degree. I think many FMA'ists have developed their internal power without training in Chi deliberately. Cheers! John Chow Australia ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:08:50 -0800 Subject: eskrima: The short spear >The Thai training I've done with two handed weapons were long staff, long >spear, and,my favorite, short spear. Of these, the short spear seemed most >usefull. Arlen, you might want to cross paths sometime with Tom Brown, the famous tracker who was trained by an old Apache Scout (the Scouts, as the highest inheritors of Apache knowledge, were supposed to be able to demonstrate expertise in every area of their culture). He runs training camps in the Southwest. I know from people who've attended that he teaches Apache short spear technique. I believe he covers applications for both hunting (deer) and fighting. I don't know if they used it from horseback ... Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Greg McFerren" Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:21:01 -1000 Subject: eskrima: opps ~snip~ I also believe you do need to do some no pad training after, to stop getting hit as often with pads. should have read: I also believe you do need to do some no pad training after you stop getting hit as often with pads. Yea thats what I ment Greg:) ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 23:06:29 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #48 >> First let me say if you are having success with this strategy, great. >> But, this sort of logic breaks down on several levels. For a graphic >> example, according to it, how should gunfighters train? > >Still works fine. We train by always doing tactical reloads, engaging >multiple >targets, moving while firing, engaging targets under stress (i.e. after being >hit with a stun gun, or having people firing blank guns over your head, etc), >by scanning to the left and right after firing to hopefully compensate for >the tunnel vision you will encounter, practicing 'wounded officer' >techniques, >firing from unusual positions, etc. > >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Okay, I guess. But wouldn't the part about firing blanks kind of make this type of training more analogous to using protective equipment? My entire point was that even when training very realistically, safety is and should be a concern. John Frankl ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 23:11:34 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #48 >And if readers don't mind I like to repeat Guro Galicha's (edited) wisdom - >"One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the fact that your hands get >pretty tough from getting hit repeatedly. .....Besides building toughness >you also build up pain tolerance as well." My instructor, Gat Puno Abon >"Garimot" Baet, echoes these thoughts as well. And using my instructor as a >reference, the ultimate skill would be not to get hit at all (that's what >25 years of >full contact unpadded sparring will do for you!) > >Respectfully, >Al Sardinas >Student of Garimot System of Arnis Again, I'm confused by the logic. If one is into building up toughness and pain tolerance via getting hit, how, and why if it is good for one, does one go about becoming unhittable? John Frankl ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 23:19:52 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #48 >He also wrote that when hitting a person, especially in the torso, that >the stick stops for a sec before you can withdraw it enabling the other >person to " trap" your stick with his/her arm/or hand. I like to add that >when striking if you execute only one strike yes you might be disarmed but >if you execute 3 or more strikes the chances for being disarmed is less. In theory, I agree and Greg probably would too (sorry Greg for guessing about you). But I think his point was, in practice, regardless of whether you plan on throwing a 3 or even 10 shot combo the stick does tend to "snag" and that is where three turns into one and sometimes a disarm. >The greater the chance for being disarmed is when the stick comes to a >rest. Yes. >Also, regarding the torso hit keep in mind when striking that no more >than 2 inches of the stick should make contact. The smaller the stick hit >the faster it will travel. Again, sound theory. Problem is your opponent moves (I hate in when that happens). You measure for 2 inches and he either jumps back 3 or crashes in 5--either way different things happen. I think Greg was just reporting some of those things. >Respectfully, >Al Sardinas >Student of Garimot System of Arnis John Frankl ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 23:33:07 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 > I think that our culture does not promote >appreciation for the fine aspects of things. Like, getting choked and >starving the brain of oxygen ... how does that affect the brain at a >low, i.e., cellular, level? I dunno. Can't be good as a repeated >experience, even though a practitioner might feel OK about their return >to consciousness. Perhaps the effects of temporary oxygen starvation >are not as severe as the effects of drinking large quantities of >alcohol. I wouldn't volunteer m'self for the research/comparison. > >Be well, >Mik Mik, As always you have much of interest and intelligence to share. I feel the same way. But it's not just our culture, at the Kodokan they did a multi-decade study of the effects of being choked out thousands of times and found no adverse effects! Someone else may know more details. Still, I don't want to do it even once if I don't have to. John ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 23:35:26 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 >>I just acquired what is obviously a Muslem (formerly known as Moro) Kris >>with a hand-forged blade -- looks like a looser version of damascus (not >>as many folds?). My question is anybody care to venture a guess as to >>how common these are? I've seen many spring steel or at least not folded >>metal ones. age? > >I've got a decent collection of weapons from the Muslim Phillipines, Krises, >Barongs, Kampilans, Piraa(sp?) and a couple of other things. Almost all of >them are pattern-welded steel. Maybe some of them are Wootz, but I'm not >enough of a metallurgist to tell for sure. > >------------------------------ > >From: >Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:56:08 -0800 (PST) >Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Kris question > >>I just acquired what is obviously a Muslem (formerly known as Moro) Kris >>with a hand-forged blade -- looks like a looser version of damascus (not >>as many folds?). My question is anybody care to venture a guess as to >>how common these are? I've seen many spring steel or at least not folded >>metal ones. age? > >As Todd just mentioned finding a Filipino kris blade with a pattern is not at >all uncommon. Age? Who knows... I have several that are 40+ years old, >some ~100. > >Old pics of some of mine are shown on the eskrima side of >http://www.martialartsresource.com. Just look toward the bottom of the >list of links. > >Ray Terry >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > >------------------------------ Where did you guys get these? John ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 23:40:53 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #50 >Does anyone when doing >Sumbradas, Box Patterns or Sinawall Drills hit the other person's hand >every time? or try too? I know when we drill we target the stick, knowing >that in RL we would target the hand. I like what Burton Richardson says on one of his tapes about this. In mid-range you must account for the weapon first--not the hand as is commonly taught--or be hit by it. JohnFrankl ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Thu, 4 Feb 99 23:49:24 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #49 > >P.S. Ray I'm sure you get tired of hearing this ;) but I must say you are >doing a great job on the digest. The recent posts especially have been >excellent, esp. the ones on hooking and the like. Here, here. Thanks Ray for the great forum and service. On hooking, I saw the Tony Ceccine (sp?) tape and it was interesting. As a BJJ practitioner I can't help but be biased, but it looked very strength-dependent. Other than that it was like watching a much less smooth and much more limited version of Yori Nakamura. John ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Fri, 05 Feb 1999 04:52:15 +0000 Subject: eskrima: FMA needs n Krav Maga Jeff Allen wrote: >For the FMA to continue, we must have instructors that are willing to >teach both the basic and advanced techniques for the art to continue >in the rich form that it currently exist. The FMA cannot afford >"secrets". I'll stop there...if you want a further explanation on my >view. . . send an email. Thanks. I am writing Mr. Allen a longer IMHO in response, but I just wanted to state that I disagree with him on the secrets point...anyone who feels that his/her instructor is short changing him/her should leave immediately. No one should be forced to learn the FMA, and at the same time one should not dictate what an instructor should or should no teach... What I bristle at is that so many seem to know what is best for this or that art..... Butch wrote: > I have heard that Krav Maga is based on natural body movements. Is this true? Does >anybody know if any FMA is included in this art? Anybody familiar with this art? Good Q...all I heard was that it's Jewish in origin... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:05:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: ears > >Still works fine. We train by always doing tactical reloads, engaging > >multiple > >targets, moving while firing, engaging targets under stress (i.e. after being > >hit with a stun gun, or having people firing blank guns over your head, etc), > >by scanning to the left and right after firing to hopefully compensate for > >the tunnel vision you will encounter, practicing 'wounded officer' > >techniques, > >firing from unusual positions, etc. > > > >Ray Terry > >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > > Okay, I guess. But wouldn't the part about firing blanks kind of make > this type of training more analogous to using protective equipment? My Not to your ears... :) Actually, auditory exclusion kicks in and your ears suffer little. But getting hit by a stun gun will make you wish you had some protective gear on... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Manny Gonzales Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 23:33:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Krav Maga Krav Maga, to my understanding, is an Israeli Martial Art. It is fairly new.. about 50 years or so... Used by the Israeli military. There is another system called Hisardut. I can't remember which one is the mother art and which is the branch of that art... Hope this helps Manny Manuel T. Gonzales | mango@uci.edu | ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:51:31 EST Subject: eskrima: Krav maga There was a post about Krav Maga, which is basically an ecletic, comprehnsive martial art system developed by the Israeli military. I have been to Israel several times but never really seen it demonstrated. I do know that other martial art systems are popular there jujitsu/karate etc. but I am not sure about how well FMA. has been represented there. There is a book that was relatively easy to get and I think it is still available called "Fighting fit" by (Col) David Ben-Asher. From what I have seen and heard (IMHO) Krav Maga is a realistic, comprehensive, but basic system of self -defense. They do have a website and they are coming out with more materials, videos, manuals etc, and they do do seminars. I think one of the reasons you are hearing about so much now is a very clever marketing strategy focusing in on the "Israeli" angle. If anyone knows anything else please enlighten me. Sid "Vicious" Stein Fil. Kali-Escrima Academy of Chicago Sidney525@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Kristo Aaltonen Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 09:56:29 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Krav Maga Butch asked about Krav Maga. I had the opportunity to train and change Ideas with some of the senior Krav Maga instructors from Israel. I noticed the following things. The aim in km is to learn the basic survival skill in very short period of time. A lot of km is based to a aggressive attitude. In their weapon training they will focus on to the things that the attacker will most likely do. (That is a non professional person under "stress".) Knife defenses against Wide # 1, centerline trusts, uppercut trusts.The defenses are based on what they call 360 degrees. The idea is to use your natural body reactions. so against # 1 use your reaction rise the hand. Stop the knife and attack simultaneously, then during your attack control the weapon hand and finish him of. This works well when you are dealing with unskilled knife attacker. However its not desined against skilled fighter what is the case in most FMA. I think that the weaponary side of km cames mostly from Japanis arts and from military type of training. Anyway an Interesting art. Kristo ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:32:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: old stuff > >Old pics of some of mine are shown on the eskrima side of > >http://www.martialartsresource.com. Just look toward the bottom of the > >list of links. > > > >Ray Terry > >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > > > > Where did you guys get these? Many of mine came from Kris Cutlery. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 07:33:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #51 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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