From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #58 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 9 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 058 In this issue: eskrima: striking/power eskrima: The Inosanto flow eskrima: RE: Instructors in San Jose, CA eskrima: The joys of sparring eskrima: WEKAF/Black Belt Mag. eskrima: Speed Loss eskrima: Hard Labor eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #57 eskrima: Re: Request for instuctors in San Jose eskrima: What's the sound of one stick clacking? eskrima: fool not too!! eskrima: Chess Comparison Already Taken eskrima: Southern Justice Re: eskrima: What you make of it Re: eskrima: What's the sound of one stick clacking? eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1000+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:26:09 -0800 Subject: eskrima: striking/power >Greg McFerren wrote: "Does anyone when doing Sumbradas, Box Patterns or >Sinawall Drills hit the other person's hand every time? or try too? I know >when we drill we target the stick, knowing that in RL we would target the >hand." In Serrada, when we do flow we are supposed to throw one of the 12 angles, all of which target the body. As has been pointed out, the weapon can be a danger if the hand is hit, so since we are not a largo mano system, we have to account for the weapon. We block/parry the stick, check to the hand, counter to the body. >Whenever they actually got a shot in on Master Sken then they >would get the exact same shot back but x times harder. My Kenpo teacher was exactly like this, and as great as he was, he never got a student to a similar level. I think the intimidation did more to hold them down. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:04:50 -0800 Subject: eskrima: The Inosanto flow Greetings all, I never ceased to be amazed at our efforts as students, to lock our instructors into a lifelong commitment to stand by a casual comment, or more relevantly to something written in a book. Examples of this: Last issue "Medicine Man Mik wrote: In Guro Inosanto's book on the FMA he says draw the stick back after striking...........The return is just as important as the hit, yes/no?" And Al Sardinas wrote "In all due respect to the knowledgeable Mik and great and humble Guro Inosanto, where is the Flow? Guro Inosanto wrote that book EIGHTEEN YEARS AGO, and do you really think he stopped adding to his knowledge of the FMA at that point? He is the most serious student I know in the martial arts and has a prodigious memory. An example : When I reviewed my notes from the first Instructor's training seminar which he held back in 1995, I counted over 6000 discrete techniques presented, from at least 50 different systems including at least 30 FMA systems, more than 20 basic system striking patterns, and my notes had words from seven languages in it. By the way, this was in 16 hours of training! And he has continued his study since then and added even more to his system. And to answer Mr. Sardinas'question about where's the flow, I must add : If you ask Guro Inosanto a simple question like how do you counter a football tackle, his demonstration of a suitable counter can start with a Jun Fan entry, wander over to BJJ for the lock, use an Indonesian Silat throw, and close with a Dumog hold. Here's the scary part: If you ask him to do that same technique but using only techniques from countries located North of the Equator he can do it, and tell you exactly which arts he used as well. There's the flow, I believe. Tommy the mouth tmeadows@fix.net ------------------------------ From: "Lankford, James" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:12:44 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Instructors in San Jose, CA Go to this page. http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/filframe.htm Scroll about half way down and you'll see the link 'Instructors in Filipino Martial Arts'. Click it. Then choose the link 'FMA Instructors Directory'. Four clicks later you'll be taken to the San Jose page. I have no experience with any of the instructors, but there are seven listed. ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:39:02 -0800 Subject: eskrima: The joys of sparring Greetings, Hey, this one is real long winded, so skip on ahead if it gets boring...... So here are some notes on my own sparring experiences. I started Dog Brothers sparring at Marc's invitation in 1990. This was just after I had won my WEKAF title and since I was only slightly full of myself Marc asked if I would join him and Eric "after hours" at the Inosanto Academy for some play. And they both spanked me quite thoroughly, thank you. Marc literally did spank me when he had me in a bear hug which was both painful and embarassing.That same evening Eric thrust me so hard in the facemask with a wooden training knife that I had a sore neck for three days. I was young, more courageous than now, and so I joined them several times after that. Oddly enough Arlan Sanford always scared me more than Eric. I remember at one of the first video shoots that Marc told me I had to fight Arlan the next day. It got me so nervous that I went on an adrenaline buzz that lasted for 16 hours and I almost threw up an hour before the match. And I tried to get Marc to let me go home as well. It was a powerful experience, and has subsequently influenced much of my martial arts training. Dogzilla was the only person prior to Cacoy that put me into full flight mode. Unfortunately he was lying on top of me at the time which severely restricted my flight ability. He had just grabbed me by the balls and used them as a handle to throw me over on my back and was lying on top of me casually taking his glove off so it would be easier to grip my windpipe. Point, game and match. The Canete family take their Eskrima very seriously and concentrate heavily on accuracy. In 1989 I was in Diony's backyard in Cebu and he was demonstrating a twirling attack on me for the group that was there, and he said "Don't move" I didn't quite hear him and moved during his attack. He continued on with his presentation and I noticed I had severely blurry vision in one eye.At that point someone (and I think it might have been Jeff Finder) grabbed hold of Diony's baton and pointed out that my soft contact lens was stuck to the tip of it. I put it back in and found no damage to the eye...or the contact lens for that matter. GM Cacoy has that same level of precision. I began my training with Cacoy in 1990 and it continues to this day. As a general rule he teches by sparring and will spar with anybody at any level that they wish to pursue. I have seen him spar with total novices and never hurt them, and I have seen him absolutely flog people who thought they could hit him. I have been sparring with Cacoy for nine years, I have been his "dummy" at many seminars, and I have been his demo partner in front of over a thousand people. In order to spar (and learn) from Cacoy you have to be able to fall quite well, and you absolutely have to be able to do it on concrete as well. Once, after throwing me onto a concrete floor he looked down at me and said "Tom, I am going to promote you!" I got somewhat excited until he said "You are now Floor Manager" and walked off laughing. Rank testing, once you are past the Black Belt level with Cacoy is pretty broad spectrum. Cacoy has a University level batchelor's degree and places a high value on learning. My rank test in Pangamot was three parts, and informal as well: I had to demonstrate proficiency as his seminar dummy, I had to solve an algebra problem that he couldn't, and I spent 4 hours with over five hundred Pangamot photographs that he had taken for his book and I was supposed to put them in proper sequence. He would sometimes put six pictures in front of me and tell me they were how to do a specific throw and I would have to argue which picture didn't belong there. And he would finally say, yes you are right Pangamot was easy, Eskrima rank testing was a bitch. Not every one is willing to spar with Cacoy and ultimately it will limit your growth in the system if you choose not to , since five minutes with him will provide you with a very high level experience with much to be learned from it . This might be because he will not allow you to spar with him with any protective gear whatsoever. He also likes to full speed thrust to the mouth and stop when his stick clicks on your teeth ( This taught me two things: First to keep my mouth closed when I spar , and also to spar with my lips rolled over my teeth: I may cut my lips but it will let me keep my teeth). I had, after 6 years of training with Cacoy, reached the point where I wished to demonstrate my skill to him, knowing full well the risks I was taking. Inherent in that choice was a well placed fundamental trust that Cacoy would not malicously injure me. I travelled to San Jose to meet with him for some private training. We began close range sparring and I kept upping the pace and actively countering him. I had already decided that I was going to keep going till I reached the upper level of my ability. Everything was fine until I got to the counter for counter part and upped the speed. It triggered something in him and he jumped up a full level instantly, and I went up just a little more to my very best, and he jumped up full level again. That's when the terror hit me: I realized I had just set him off and honest to God had to defend myself or get seriously hurt, and that if I triggered anything else in him with my defense it was going to get ugly. I don't remeber any details after that but he finally stopped and saluted me. In three minutes of sparring he had thrown me at least ten times, disarmed and locked me as many times and I had four cuts on my face, one of which was pretty deep. He apologized for the cuts and said he had not meant to hurt me, and he gave me some Himag ointment for the cuts. When I looked at the cuts the next day in the mirror they were in a absolute straight line right down the center of my face starting at my forehead and working down to my mouth. I learned a lot from this and here are some of the lessons. (1) This was just sparring and had it been a real fight I would have been down and out in under two seconds (3) He had five or six levels of skill that were above anything I had, or probably will ever have (2) Never set off a senior instructor (3) I need to learn how to protect my face and head. (4) I had definitely earned my second grade black belt and had ABSOLUTELY no interest in any rank higher than that one. Four years later I still train with him, and he continues to promote me. He is kinder to me these days,and I greatly enjoy our association. I think if we asked around the list we could probably get similar stories, maybe we can get Mr. Finder to relay some of his experiences with Angel Cabales. "Tommy the Whipped" tmeadows@fix.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:59:36 -0700 Subject: eskrima: WEKAF/Black Belt Mag. For those who are interested (and I know some of you definitely aren't!), there is an article about the recent WEKAF championships in Cebu in the March issue of Black Belt magazine. Steve Wolk swolk@nexstar.com ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:50:46 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Speed Loss > "Speed is > a physical measurement. But quickness is a mental skill: being able to > > out-think everyone else, to anticipate, to know what's going to happen > > before everyone else does." This touches on some comments that I made off-list. The essential element is that if 1) loss of cardiovascular capacity and the efficiency of the low-level physiological stuff of endurance; and 2) decreased muscle mass can be assumed to be consequences of -aging- (not the latter part of an athletic career which is a different consideration), the speed factor that age may affect least is the neurological part. Part of our speed is determined by recognition and reaction time. Part of our reactions are managed by spinal relfexes. A well-trained person has a bunch of cerebellum-driven reflexes riding on top of those spinal reflexes as well (just like someone who's been playing piano all his life and can still jazz the 88s in their 90's). I point again to people of legend like Juanito La Costa ... how old was he when he fought teenagers in the park? Was he FAST enough or what? Was he as strong as he was at half his age? Would he be able to maintain the same pace and/or duration that he might have had at half his age? There is the type of example I'd examine. Fact: As we get older we produce less growth hormone (GH). GH is necessary for the growth of muscle. Muscle growth is, uh, related to strength, both its increase and maintenance. The reverse is also true. Just a part of the picture. Gotta go, hasta tarde... Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:46:12 EST Subject: eskrima: Hard Labor << It's certainly not working on the docks all day >> Take it from someone who still labors hard. You are better off resting all day on your job and training hard at night. This spares the body and allows it to heal. You only have so much recovery ability. I have spent many of my consecutive 16 hour workdays wondering how I would break into hard training again. I have spent many hard training sessions wondering how I would make it through the next 16 hour day. I ride a thin line of under/overtraining, staying fitter than the average yuppie, but far, far, from a Rigan Machado, Evander Holyfield, or a World class stickfighter. The key is basically lack of self abuse, good diet, and buckets of antioxidants. It is easier to train hard if my bodyfat remains at 6 to 7 percent, than if I ballooned up to 20% and drank and smoked. Manual labor (in my case, being a stagehand) just injures you and keeps you in sleep deprivation for months at a time. Be glad you can sit and allow your body to recover after hard evening training sessions while earning a living. It beats waking up after bagwork, weightwork, or power shots with a stick, and having to unload six trucks at 8am....just my humble opinion..Tom Furman....tcsno@aol.com ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Tue, 9 Feb 99 15:01:19 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #57 >Thanks for voicing my opinion :-) > >Be well, >Mik I think we often agree--it's just that replies are often prompted by disagreements making some on the list (mainly me) seem contentious when in fact I greatly benefit from and agree with 95% of the discussion here. On grappling, and to echo something Mik mentioned months ago, when Rickson Gracie was interviewed by the now defunct Full Contact mag. and asked about his strategy vs. multiple attackers he replied Sig Sauer P226 or something to that effect. ------------------------------ From: Joe Tesoro Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 13:01:14 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Request for instuctors in San Jose Mark wrote: >I live in Almaden Valley (south San Jose, CA) and would very much like to >learn eskrima/kali. I have not practiced the art before, but did obtain a >shodan in ju jutsu in an earlier part of my life. Can anyone recommend an >academy or instructor that I may contact ? > >Mark > Hi Mark, Well at the risk of sounding self-promoting, I decided to respond to your request. I would like to welcome you to come work out with us at my class. I live about 5 minutes from where you do. Please email me if you have any questions. If anything I can give you a list of the other Inayan instructors around your (our) area. Joe Tesoro Inayan Eskrima jct.jr@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: Lonnie Pollard Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:15:11 -0500 Subject: eskrima: What's the sound of one stick clacking? >Every time the opponent entered Salty hit the guy's hands. Even >tho the boken person was wearing heavy gloves, after getting hit about >four or five times he threw down his weapon. Without the gloves he would >have probably thrown it down after the first or second hit. Am I missing >something here? That doesn't seem like a waste of energy. > >Ray Terry Had Salty blocked instead, yes it would have been a waste of energy. However, hitting the hand is a strike. Using your stick to hit the opponents stick is a block. Using your stick to hit your opponents stick is a waste of energy. Why not use the energy and movement that was used to make contact with the opponents stick rather to make contact with the opponent. Even better, (1)avoid superfluous strikes (2)make your strikes count to the fullest. Like a good chess player who doesn't run out trying to take every piece in sight, the better fighter has more stratedgy and makes every strike (move) count to the fullest. No wasted moves. No room for sloppiness. One main goal. To my undertanding there is an old saying with some Masters in Laguna that in a fight the sound of sticks clacking together is the mark of amateurs. Lonnie ------------------------------ From: Lonnie Pollard Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:16:54 -0500 Subject: eskrima: fool not too!! >I agree that obviously if you can take the head first you would be a >fool not too!! Gat Puno Abon not only can, but does it quite easily. He was famous for it when he used to fight in the unpadded (head, body, and stick) tournaments in Laguna. Today, his senior most students can't begin to keep his strikes from hitting their head, no matter how much he tells them to protect their head. Even those who have been studying with him for as long as ten years. Largo Mano is a high level science in the martial arts of the Laguna region, and that's the world that the "Garimot" system grew up in. >However you can not simply ignore the attack coming at >you, nor can you always just slip it and counter, ( a common Balintawak >move ) something I don't see a whole of others do. He never ignores, he just always knows what will actually reach. He has stood in stances where he has asked me if he's in range for me to strike. The appearance is like he's way within range, yet when I extend my stick I can't reach him. But he reaches his out and can hit my head with the middle of his stick, leaving him several inches that if I moved back his strike would still land. When he first demonstrated largo mano to me, I thought a)is this a trick, or b)is it some source of sorcery. Being one who accepts nothing mystical, I tried to figure out what the trick was. But it wasn't a trick. And I knew it wasn't magical. So eventually I realized that what wasn't working was the one dimensional diagram I was using, and that most anyone else would probably use when presented with this. It is real, and it works, and attempts to examine it with a point A/point B-one dimensional diagram will fail. Various systems of Arnis in Laguna have these intricate systems of distancing and placing oneself in a superior position. You just have to experience it for yourself. But be assured, Gat Puno Abon never gets hit in the head, yet the seemingly easiest thing for him to do is hit people in the head. Lonnie Pollard a (low level) student of the "Garimot" system of Arnis (All opinions expressed come from my own limited understanding) ------------------------------ From: Lonnie Pollard Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 16:30:55 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Chess Comparison Already Taken I see by a quote in ED 57 that a chess comparison had already been used before, and I missed reading it. I hope my own just posted chess comparison doesn't cause overuse. It was an independent thought on my part, but could cause unintentional infringement. Sorry. Lonnie ------------------------------ From: Andrew Johnson Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:10:34 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Southern Justice - --------------A4461465EEBA5CAC8463B97D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't get any answer on my Brazil question, so let's try something a little more domestic: I will be in Atlanta, Georgia in March. What weapons are legal to carry in the states of Georgia and Alabama, and what weapons are legal to conceal. I know someone posted what was legal to carry on american air carriers, but if they could repeat the information that would also be appreciated. carpe scrotum Andrew Johnson - --------------A4461465EEBA5CAC8463B97D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I didn't get any answer on my Brazil question, so let's try something a little more domestic: I will be in Atlanta, Georgia in March. What weapons are legal to carry in the states of Georgia and Alabama, and what weapons are legal to conceal.

I know someone posted what was legal to carry on american air carriers, but if they could repeat the information that would also be appreciated.

carpe scrotum
Andrew Johnson - --------------A4461465EEBA5CAC8463B97D-- ------------------------------ From: Lonnie Pollard Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 19:15:05 -0500 Subject: Re: eskrima: What you make of it I approach this particular discussion as one who has considerable respect for Guro Jeff Finder and enormous respect (to say the least) for my instructor Gat Puno Abon Baet. My only entry into the discussion is with the hope of possibly illuminating a couple of things to the best of my ability from my own perspective. I first started reading the Eskrima-Digest a few years back with an interest in eventually learning more about the FMA's. The impression I got as a reader of the ED discussions was of a set of martial arts that originated from an area about the size of a city block, and there was much reference to one street in particular. Also there was a list of names that came up again and again of who was who from where these arts originated. The popular books on the FMA's I had been exposed to followed suit. Then a year and a half ago I became a student of Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet, and suddenly almost everything I was exposed to was considerably different than everything else I'd been exposed to from the ED and elsewhere. Also, there was a whole new list of Masters, GrandMasters, heros, systems, etc., not the ones I had heard of earlier on the ED. What was happening? What I eventually learned, through a slow process, was that most of the FMA's in the US came from Cebu, which is one small area of the Philippines (anyone have exact stats?). Laguna is another area, and it has its own list of who's who. And yet there are many more areas of the Philippines that probably each have yet a whole different set of who's who's. Not out of any disrespect. But rather regions tend to know only the fighters and systems famous in their own region, and it seems that better relations can be made by acknowledging this and maintaining this context. I believe that in the US, although we might possibly have a reasonably accurate view of the FMA's of Cebu, we know virtually nothing of the FMA's of other regions. It is important to keep perspective of what we are saying of being true of the FMA's in general, if what we are abstracting from is a window within only one small region. Especially with each region being so different. What is true of one region is often not true of another. Distinguishing is very important so that we can be clear what it is we are talking about, and so that readers don't make blanket assumptions based on what they've read about one particular region. The differences are too often too enormous. I believe concerning the discussion about Guro Finder's experiences, Gat Puno Abon just wanted to make sure that it be kept clear that what was being spoken of was experiences in Cebu in particular and not the Philippines in general. There was no intentions of questioning those experiences but rather it be wished that the context be kept clear so that misunderstanding might be minimized. For whatever it's worth and with nothing but respect intended toward all, Lonnie Pollard a student of the "Garimot" system of Arnis (All opinions expressed come from my own quite limited understanding) ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:49:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: What's the sound of one stick clacking? I think we got here with my statement that going for the weapon hand was 'a good thing'. So yes, I agree with what Salty did. Hitting the hand did the trick. > Using your stick to hit the opponents stick is a block. Using your stick to > hit your opponents stick is a waste of energy. Not if that stick is about to hit you where you don't want to be hit... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:59:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #58 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.