From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #59 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 10 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 059 In this issue: eskrima: Ramblings eskrima: Re: hitting the instructor eskrima: RE: Hard Labor Re: eskrima: Ramblings Re: eskrima: [Q] Request for Eskrima/Kali Instruction eskrima: Hard & aggresive eskrima: Where's The Flow? eskrima: knifes???? eskrima: No wasted moves eskrima: February Sequence eskrima: WEKAF Sparring eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #58 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1000+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:10:03 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Ramblings A Howl etc: How very interesting the mini-thread on hitting one's "betters" has been. One comment that caught my attention was one in response to the story of Bruce Lee teeing off on Dan Lee for scoring on him and was something to the effect of "that must be part of what made him great" or something like that. I do not think this is necessarily so. My thought is that there are two elements to the interaction here, lets call them the "good" player and the "better" player. (My terms BTW for my left and right hands/feet in an effort to apply neurolinguistic principles to my terminology, but I digress-- how rare , , ,) When the Good scores on the Better, often Better's reaction depends on G's attitude. If G is being a smartass, well then maybe its time to crack him some. But if he is centered, then cracking him is crap. Someone who does this ultimately surrounds himself with synchophants (sp?) IMHO one of the most important building blocks of the Dog Brother tribe's culture was the example of Eric's attitude. I remember when, to choose one example of many, a fairly ordinary fighter by the name of Chico really, really tagged Eric's hand-- possibly the best hand shot I've ever seen scored on Eric-- wish I was the one who did it. Chico freaked a bit in anticipation of vengeance, but none was coming. Of course Eric hit him, but it was just what he would have done anyway and not in the spirit or intensity of looking to make him pay for having dared scored upon His Mightiness or some such twaddle. Perhaps we have had to follow Eric's example in this regard simply because it is so hard just getting people to show up. But I do know that I have a question in my mind about character when a superior talent is so brittle in his confidence. > >Every time the opponent entered Salty hit the guy's hands. Even > >tho the boken person was wearing heavy gloves, after getting hit about > >four or five times he threw down his weapon. Without the gloves he would > >have probably thrown it down after the first or second hit. Am I missing > >something here? That doesn't seem like a waste of energy. > > > >Ray Terry > > Had Salty blocked instead, yes it would have been a waste of energy. > However, hitting the hand is a strike. > > Using your stick to hit the opponents stick is a block. Using your stick to > hit your opponents stick is a waste of energy. Why not use the energy and > movement that was used to make contact with the opponents stick rather to > make contact with the opponent. Even better, (1)avoid superfluous strikes > (2)make your strikes count to the fullest. and > I think we got here with my statement that going for the weapon hand was > 'a good thing'. So yes, I agree with what Salty did. Hitting the hand did > the trick. > > Using your stick to hit the opponents stick is a block. Using your stick to > > hit your opponents stick is a waste of energy. > > Not if that stick is about to hit you where you don't want to be hit... Maybe I'm just a blockhead, but this all seems pretty simple to me. Different people use the term "block" differently. For me, and most people I suspect, it means striking your opponent's weapon defensively, or allowing his to hit yours instead of you. Block if you have to. It sure beats getting hit, but if your opponent is making you block, not all of your blocks will block-- i.e. you will get hit some. Overall, I'd rather be hitting, but you're an idiot if you don't block when you have to because "hitting is better." If you've never had to block, you never fought someone of your own level or better. This is either because you are a) real good, or b) because your opponents are not. And just to throw one more point in the mix, in DBMA we have what we call attacking blocks which are used to safely enter largo/medio/corto or to crash to the grappling ranges. Attention sensitive people: I am not calling anyone on this list an idiot. > carpe scrotum > Andrew Johnson Indeed! And on another front, it would appear that I will be doing a seminar in Spain in June. Several list members in Europe have asked me to let them know if ever I was in Europe so perhaps this can be turned into a grand tour or something like that. Contact me via private e-mail on this please. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Mark W. Ripley" Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:23:31 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: hitting the instructor I haven't yet had the (mis)fortune of landing a blow on my current instructor, but my previous one acted a bit different than some of the experiences I've heard described so far. If I got a good shot in on my previous instructor, (whether or not he had left an opening on purpose) he would turn up the response a bit and thwack me a couple of times, but also examine (then or later) why/how my attack had worked. I always felt I was showing progress when this happened. Such shots were rare but never did he react like I'd insulted him or like he needed to whale on me after one of them - but it was always good for more intensity for the remainder of the class. - -- Mark markr@millerslab.com ------------------------------ From: "Allen Eastwood" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:27:27 -0600 Subject: eskrima: RE: Hard Labor > Take it from someone who still labors hard. You are better > off resting all day > on your job and training hard at night. This spares the body > and allows it to > heal. You only have so much recovery ability. I'm not so sure that I'd consider a day in the office as "restful" simply non-active. By the time I've fought traffic, dealt with stuff all day and fought traffic on the way back home, it can be a real effort sometimes to work up the mental energy to work out, and I haven't even gotten the benefit of that hard day physical labor. Of course, I really do enjoy what I do! My point simply was that hard long day of physical activity, IMO, is more likely to better condition you physically in many ways. > Manual labor (in > my case, being a stagehand) just injures you and keeps you in sleep > deprivation for months at a time. Be glad you can sit and > allow your body to > recover after hard evening training sessions while earning a > living. Typically, I'll work out from about 8-10 in the evening, and I find between the time I get home and unwind, and my natural night owl inclinations, that often I'm wound up for at least a few more hours at night. But it does bring a good point, depending on what you do each day for a living, what's the best way to focus your training for the best results? For me, those goals would be reasonable physical fitness and maximal fighting ability. Anyone want to share their typical workouts? - -Allen mixal@onramp.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:11:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Ramblings > Maybe I'm just a blockhead, but this all seems pretty simple to me. > Different people use the term "block" differently. For me, and most people > I suspect, it means striking your opponent's weapon defensively, or > allowing his to hit yours instead of you. FWIW, in Serrada you are more apt to 'block' by blocking the weapon hand. In this situation your own stick keeps their stick from hitting you in the head (or whatever) [Hi Rock :) ], but the block is not stick to stick. These blocks are more offensive in nature. Inayan Dequerdas uses (agumented)stick-to-stick blocks. This type of system is easier to learn for those you want to get up-to-speed quickly with a bolo or baton. These blocks are more defensive in nature. Ray 'Just another blockhead' Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 19:39:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: [Q] Request for Eskrima/Kali Instruction > I live in Almaden Valley (south San Jose, CA) and would very much like to > learn eskrima/kali. I have not practiced the art before, but did obtain a > shodan in ju jutsu in an earlier part of my life. Can anyone recommend an > academy or instructor that I may contact ? Mark, You're in luck! This area is an Eskrima/FMA mecca. Guro Joe Tesoro already contacted you. Inayan Guros Danny Alvendia, Cory Hanosh, Jon Ward, Jason Inay and Jena Inay are also in the South Bay area (I'm sure I'm leaving out someone) and watch this distribution list. Then there is Suro Mike Inay at 408-304-0806. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:39:44 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Hard & aggresive Getting modern middle class Americans to be physically aggressive in a way useful for combat can be difficult. I really hope no one takes this the wrong way, but you may have to get "tribal" in your training. Grandmaster Gaje used to do things to us that would essentially "brainwash" the technique into you. At night, after a long, hard day of training at a summer camp, he would often take the senior students aside and have them do one of the day's techniques hard and fast over and over again. It was not just repetition. It was repetition after the point of exhaustion had been reached. Exhaustion and repetition are some of the elements common to both real brainwashing and Grandmaster Gaje's methods of night training. The goal in both is to bypass the conscious brain and put the information into the subconscious. Modern science backs this view. An instructor at the FBI defensive tactics course I attended said "The time to really ingrain the technique into the student is when they can barely stand up". If you are having trouble with students who hesitate to hit hard during sparring try the following: 1. Have them work a single 3 strike combination hard for 20 to 30 minutes each night on a stack of tires until their bodies only know one way to do that particular combo...hard. The only contact many people get with their stick is only against a partner's stick. They naturally hold back as not to injure their partner should the partner miss. They need a time where they can go all out with their only thoughts being on power. Keeping the attack to one 3 strike combo is easy to remember under stress. 2. Have them do the same combo repeatedly while charging across the room screaming at the top of their lungs (their voices will tire before their bodies so keep total time on this drill short). 3. Pick a piece of music with a strong rhythm that goes well with a particular combination attack and make that attack and music your "War Dance". End your class with this "War Dance" for a few weeks. Assign a number to each movement of the combo. You want the students to say the names of each strike as they do them so the names should be short (would you rather say "1,2,4,8" or "Forehand, Backhand, Uppercut, Thrust" all night?). They should move foreword across the room as they do the drill in unison and in rhythm to the music (hence "War Dance"). Eventually try putting together 2 or 3 school "War Dances" and have the students put their own favorite combo to music - their own "War Dance". A word of warning that I hope you will take very seriously. You will be very close to brainwashing the music as well as the technique into your students. So only pick music with no negative connotations. Only use a piece of music that you won't mind hearing in your sleep for the next few weeks and nothing anyone in class would find morally objectionable. During exhaustion you will be feeding the words of the song directly into their subconscious so be careful what music you choose. I often end the day at my outdoor summer camps with drills like the above. You can see why the students often refer to them as "boot camp". Think of getting a small group of fighters ready quickly for a battle and you will get the feeling of these drills. After a few weeks of training to strike hard, move aggressively, and ingrain the technique, go back to sparring. You should see a difference in your students. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:48:25 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Where's The Flow? Try a few experiments ... may find that drawing the weapon back (stick incl. :-) may enhance the flow into the next strike. Drawing the weapon back -improves- weapon control. Depending on how the grip is working through the part of the arc that precedes the next strike, the follow-up can (per my limited experience and ability) be -much- faster and far more fluid than when the weapon is not drawn back. With practice the draw-back (drawback? pun?) can become less emphasized and just becomes part of the flow. Start swinging a heavy weapon around as quickly as possible and the rationale for controlling the weapon as described hits home (or some other part of the anatomy, floor, far wall, etc.) rather quickly (again, in my limited experience). I would not want to wave a sword of any length around without controlling it as described. It could be a little clumsy if not dangerous. Stands to reason too that if the weapon is controlled as described our movements will be more efficient and leave us open to counter for a shorter period of time. At the far extremes we would have flailing or hacking. Make sense? Well, even if it doesn't make sense :-) it takes less energy and that's a VGT. Just thought of another take on this: the drawback may have the added effect of acceleration ... Somebody in the know, tell us so. (Personally I'm convinced on all of these points but would like to hear what others have to say). Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Mosi Jack Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:42:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: knifes???? I was interested in purchasing a small knife, maybe a folder. Does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks alot. - ---eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > > > Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 9 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 058 > > In this issue: > > eskrima: striking/power [265 lines deleted. Please do not send an issue of the diges back to the list.] ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:49:43 -0800 Subject: eskrima: No wasted moves >Using your stick to hit the opponents stick is a block. Using your stick to >hit your opponents stick is a waste of energy. Why not use the energy and >movement that was used to make contact with the opponents stick rather to >make contact with the opponent. Even better, (1)avoid superfluous strikes >(2)make your strikes count to the fullest. > >Like a good chess player who doesn't run out trying to take every piece in >sight, the better fighter has more stratedgy and makes every strike (move) >count to the fullest. No wasted moves. Why must a block or parry be a wasted move? Especially in context of the chess analogy, one might see it as using defense to set up the counter. In Serrada we use a shorter stick, which has the advantage of reversing more quickly in close quarters than a larger weapon. By allowing the opponent's weapon to come at us and countering it tightly, it sets him up, what we refer to as baiting the trap. At least if done correctly ... :) I think the recent series of posts about my power comment came down to a semantic misunderstanding, which has been taken offline and handled graciously. As for my experiences in the Philippines, this was limited to a particular format of competition, but not to fighters only from that area. There were clubs there from Bohol, Negros and Panay, as well as various divergent groups from Cebu. Later, when I fought in Manila, there was a whole new group of masters and grandmasters, including most of the top instructors from the Manila area and some from the north. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:37:19 -0800 Subject: eskrima: February Sequence A Howl etc: The February Sequence is up and we're trying something a little different-- its directly from the video of a fight at our most recent Gathering and features Sled Dog. We're still figuring out the technology, so its in B&W. Let us know what you think. Woof, Guro Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Richard Killick" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:52:29 -0000 Subject: eskrima: WEKAF Sparring The first time I ever sparred with a stick was in a WEKAF tournament. I think (I may be wrong about this) that my then instructor, Bob Breen was the first person to start sanctioning the WEKAF tournament style in the U.K. I had never put on the armour before and to be honest I was more into Thai Boxing. A friend at Bobs Academy talked me in to it the day before. I won my first fight but lost my second because I ran out of gas. I came away with a couple of small bruises and having learnt it's a lot harder to hit a moving target with a stick, than I first thought. I think the strong points of the WEKAF style tournament are, you can take part safely and you get to work on your foot work and offence (that's my view as a novice in this format). I did not try stick fighting again until eight years later when I was layed up at home with a back injury and someone gave me a Dog Brothers (tape 6) tape to cheer me up. I started to dabble with sparring, getting some tips and encouragement from Crafty Dog. I started to train in a traditional FMA system, the Warriors system under Krishna Godhana. This system stressed among the usual things having a good defence. We started to spar with the Dog Brothers rules/format but with the WEKAF helmets (while we tried to track down some fencing masks). I went to my first gathering last Sept and got to fight with the fencing masks, I noticed when Crafty Dog played me the tape that my performance was substandard. Top Dog put me under pressure and I started to make some unusual defence motions (ha,ha), a bit like flinching in the face of an attack. This was unusual for me as being six foot tall, I am normally able to control my opponent at long range. As a Novice in the Dog Brothers format I now view a stick fight differently, I try not to stay in the middle range and just bang (which I tended to do in the WEKAF style, I was not the only one doing this either). I think that less armour makes you think about your defence, simply because it hurts more. Again that's my view as a novice in both formats. Someone posted that hitting the other persons stick is a waste of energy, I have found that once someone gets a good defence (good foot work, control of distance/snaky stick and blocking/parrying). Its hard to get in. In what I think (again I am a novice)Crafty calls stick square range I have started to knock the other guys stick out off the way and then hit in. I saw this a lot in the staff fights and I am trying bring the merge into play at this range with my stick. You can slow the others guys stick down to get your line in and mix that strategy with the game plan of destroying anything which stays still or sticks out at long range. As far as sparring with no armour with Grandmaster Cacoy, wow great post Tom! Happy Training Richard Killick richard@kingsc.globalnet.co.uk ------------------------------ From: "Sanford" Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:32:42 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #58 > Using your stick to hit the opponents stick is a block. Using your stick to > hit your opponents stick is a waste of energy. Not if that stick is about to hit you where you don't want to be hit... I love to hit the other fighter's stick! Three reasons come to mind; most fighters don't expect you to attack the stick, yet it's the closest thing to hit. This often makes for a very easy target. If you hit the stick and knock it out of the way, you've messed up whatever the fighter was working on and created an opening for yourself. And , if you knock the stick out of the other fighters hand, you are now fighting an unarmed opponent. Arlan ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:10:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #59 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.