From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #63 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 12 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 063 In this issue: eskrima: Re: NLP source eskrima: RE: More on the Groin shots eskrima: writing on the stick eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #62 eskrima: Size and strength do matter. eskrima: Relative Size of Opponents eskrima: hitting instructors eskrima: tinikling n stuff eskrima: Re: block and not to block eskrima: Tom's Knife comment eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #62 eskrima: NLP take two: eskrima: Re: Choking & Exhustion training pt 2 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1000+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:11:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: NLP source For good, secondary-source material on applying the techniques on NLP to the martial arts, I would also recomend Dr. John LaTourette. He is the one (for you younger types) who runs ads in BB as the "speedman" (speed hitting drills - not speed-dealing drills!;) Even his (albiet cheesy) advertising uses principles of NLP, and he has refered to it in many of his books. He has MANY books, tapes, and training manuals available that are not advertised. Worth checking out. Pete Kautz Arnis-Kali Ithaca ------------------------------ From: "Allen Eastwood" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:24:07 -0600 Subject: eskrima: RE: More on the Groin shots > From: Barry Regan > I have had this argument with women at my school. They > "know" that a knee > to the groin will take any man out. Taking aside the argument about whether or not one can actually land the groin shot... A few months ago, while sparring I got nailed with a really good front snap kick that snagged the left testicle. It was direct, intended and landed with enough power to really squish the damn thing. As a result, I was left with some rather severe bruising and swelling. Enough that I eventually went to the doctor to have it checked out. I'd say it took at least 6 weeks to two months for the majority of the internal bruising to subside, and I think there's still a little residual. The effect during the fight? Well, my eyes widened a bit, it stopped my advance at the time, I recovered quickly, ignored the pain and kept sparring the rest of the night. Then I went on and worked out the rest of the week, and weekend with the aid of a little extra support. As much as it's popular to think that knocking the ole jewels around will take out any man, that's just plain not true. I prefer to teach my students to focus on hitting the pelvic bone, right where the cartilage joins it just in front of the bladder. If that cartilage can be snapped, it ruins the structural underpinning of the body and you simply cannot stand. To my mind, much more effective than relying on pain. Additionally, the bladder itself makes a nice secondary target. If there's much fluid in it at all, a sharp blow can cause a nice rupture. And apparently, the pain involved is a lot worse then the testicle attack. Finally, a well delivered front kick, with a slight sinking of your weight and a good push/hip thrust tends to move the attacker back, again because of the disruption on his center of gravity and balance, which could lead to some good follow-ups or an opportunity for escape. Just some more of my $0.02 worth. - -Allen mixal@onramp.net ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:52:10 -0800 Subject: eskrima: writing on the stick A Howl etc: The rather large ominous looking stick/staff in my hand in the opening picture to the MAI article is a cherished gift from Dr. M. Gyi and the writing on it is some sort of ancient Burmese. It was an executioner's staff and at a Gathering of the Pack is carried by whomever is serving as Ringmaster that day (Salty, Top, myself) as a symbol of authority. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: John Frankl Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:16:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #62 > > In padded competition the above may be true, but in unpadded competition > size will not matter only effective techniques. I am more than twice the > size of my instructor Gat Puno Abon but that makes no difference. It's like > David and Goliath. Through my training with him I have come to realize that > the person with the highest skills will overcome any weight, size or > strength. > > Respectfully, > Al Sardinas Perhaps the caveat "in largo mano range with no grappling" should be added? Or rather than simply saying "highest skill", perhaps "skills much higher" than one's opponent would be more appropriate. I say this only because if one is only slightly better than one's opponent he would still have the "highest skills" in an encounter, but to say that this slight advantage would "overcome any weight, size or strength" is somewhat tenuous. John ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:25:47 EST Subject: eskrima: Size and strength do matter. In a message dated 99-02-11 11:23:21 EST, you write: << Through my training with him I have come to realize that the person with the highest skills will overcome any weight, size or strength. >> Sorry, this just isn't correct. Size and strength do matter. I havn't done a lot with FMA, but I have studied Japanese and Korean arts for years and teach Hapkido at the University of Montana. I'm also the author of a book on real fighting, based on experience. Size and strength DO MATTER. Here's an example of two people I am currently teaching. One is a 5'6" female who weighs around 110 pounds. She holds a black belt in TKD, and is very fast. The other student is 6'3" and weighs about 280-290 pounds. When he started with me last Sept., it was the first time he ever did any martial art. However, he played college football for 4 years until starting law school, plays basketball and likes to wrestle and throw people around. Not afraid of getting hurt, etc. He used to squat over 600 pounds, and is still very strong. In reality, there is no way, even with good technique that she can do much to him. Some techniques, are impossible for her to do to someone that size. I agree that with technique, a smaller person can do things to a larger person. I've done it, my friends have done it. But to say size and strength don't matter is very wrong. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:48:02 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Relative Size of Opponents > There's nothing particularly unusual > for bigger/stronger people to have an edge in competition, in any sport." > > In padded competition the above may be true, but in unpadded competition > size will not matter only effective techniques. I am more than twice the > size of my instructor Gat Puno Abon but that makes no difference. It's like > David and Goliath. Through my training with him I have come to realize that > the person with the highest skills will overcome any weight, size or > strength. > Interesting thoughts ... made me think of Richard the Lionhearted. Supposedly, he was not a big guy and he whupped larger opponents partially because of the smaller ratio of body mass to mass of armor typically worn in his day. The larger opponent had a proportionally greater amount of surface area to cover in armor. The disproportionately increased mass of Richard's opponents worked against them. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:25:25 EST Subject: eskrima: hitting instructors I have been studying kung-fu for about a year and arnis for about eight months now. I have always felt that if a student was able to make contact with the teacher, the teacher would be pleased to see that his student is progressing and absorbing his teachings. Also in the styles i study my teacher stresses to not hold back on an opponent. If and when, while running drills, I do make contact with my teacher he is pleased with my preformance and he shows me what is right and wrong with the attack. It usually proves to be a learning experience for both parties. But mainly for me. - -DblDog77@aol.com- ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 02:47:45 +0000 Subject: eskrima: tinikling n stuff Mr. Bread Boy wrote: Quick question: I know of tintakling( sp??) being used as a musical timing drill.... I've heard of "tinikling" the folk dance with the long bamboo poles...IMLE, no its not traditionally used in MA training... Pinoy trivia question for the day: can anyone tell me what an "anklung" is? (Bueller? ...Bueller? ...Bueller?...) tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:57:32 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: block and not to block In a message dated 2/11/99 11:22:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << >>On the thread about whether to block or not to block, whether 'tis nobler in the minds of masters to counter without the clash ... It comes down to timing and the ability to control both range and body angle relative to the attack. Whoever can best execute their strategy is most likely to win. Largo mano tends to move across the line of attack, using mobility and angulation to avoid the attack. It works. Closer systems, like Serrada, have less room to maneuver, plus defenses help disrupt the flow of the opponent and create openings for rapid-fire counters. Even there, body angle is important, and counters can be done without blocking, but since sinawalli (in the broader sense of weaving with the hands, not just double stick drills) utilizes both hands in an intricate pattern, one can learn to explode off a defense while the opponent gets disrupted. Which is better? Depends who can execute their strategy better ... In a way, this brings me back to the older thread about sumbrada, and whether drills are for beginners to learn, or warriors to stay in tune. One learns to flow to develop timing and vision. With those qualities, one can then break the >>timing to one's advantage. Harder to break timing if one doesn't sense it .... Jeff, good job in this one, this is well phrase. To all system I think blocking is always part of one strategy. Largo mano stylist tend to used it as attacking blocks instead. To hit the hand, elbow, and fore arm is enough to stop the on coming attack like you said timing is big part of its effectiveness. To the proper Zoning, proper angles you can carculate the lenght of his weapon and his hand against to your hands and weapon. Once you know how to carculate the proper distancing, each strike that he throw will be counter by the same attack or opposite angles of attack. Samples:If he try to throw an over head strike what is the effective counter for this type of attack, is the upward and backhand strike to the head. Target is the head, because when you intend to strike the hand the hands is always constantly moving, but the head move late after the hands. If you are Serrada or Corto stylist, blocks is a essential parts of the system. To close the gap we need to used blocks, stick or hand block(tap) to stop the opponent weapon hand. Also, by using proper angle, this will help to eliminate the risk of being hit. In this position you can control the movement of your opponents by keeping the "Bantay Kamay" blocking the possible attacks. The stick has to be busy striking the possibles opening targets. Keep your opponent off balance is one of the big aspect of Serrada stylist. Serrada stylist have to had the rooted base footworks, strong body positioned and well determined techniques of attacks . To complete the techniques in serrada the "Blocking" has to be masters and used properly to avoids getting hits. Be well just a small thoughts, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:19:24 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Tom's Knife comment Tom wrote: > I have rather carefully avoided the knife discussions for many reasons. > But I will interject this thought .The best legal knife you can carry is a > Stanley razor knife like the kind construction workers carry. They come in > two sizes, one of which is designed for your keychain, they are totally > legal in all cases to possess and carry, they have changeable razor > blades, and they cost three dollars (if the need comes to leave it behind) > and they will reach and cut effortlessly to 50% of the major arteries in > the body through most common clothing. > Hey Tom now this is something I agree with you on 100% , this is one of the best comments I have seen on the ED in a while. I am kind of a unusual breed when it comes to Eskrima practitioners, I have so many knives, swords and what not all because everyone thinks that because I do Martial arts, that I must be a weapons nut most of them just collect dust!!. I personally could care less about who makes what or which one is better, or mine is bigger than yours, Well scratch that last one!!!! Not that their is anything wrong with someone who appreciates craftsmanship, that's cool. Hell I like exotic cars and old hotrods, so that's what I collect. But when it comes to knives ( of course within reason ) its not that knife that will make you a better fighter its the skill behind it. Hell if you totally suck with a knife, but you have a custom built perfectly balanced swami the samurai slashing switch blade, and I will still kill you with a spoon!! And I beleave you point on legality of the weapon is preety good, you can probally get away with saying you used it at work and for got you had it. Of course some of the boy's in blue might still try to nail you for it, but that's what they make lawyers for! Rocky Pasiwk Chief instructor Anciong's original Balintawak Founder of Cuentada DeMano ------------------------------ From: "Carl Fung" Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:47:54 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #62 .<< Consider a sumbrada pattern ... and the downward strike to foil the #4 in what I think is the most prevalent variant of this "box pattern." Opinions: Is it better to just do what some call "drop stick" or to thwack the #4 in an arcing move that draws our weapon back as the other hand checks? >> Your move depends on your follow-up. Chess players think several moves ahead. One plays checkers counter for counter style. The stop hit for example puts you a move ahead by interception. The follow (your arching) can put the stick out of play to draw. The meet (your thwack) can nulify to attack by combination. These are examples of possible paths each of which have merits. No one is best. The key is gaining the experience to put the play in which maximizes your attributes at that point in time. carl ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 01:36:34 -0800 Subject: eskrima: NLP take two: Yip: Upon reflection, (i.e. I read what I had written) I think my NLP post was somewhat lacking in clarity. I've taken another stab at and it appears on the "Rambling Ruminations" page of our website: www.dogbrothers.com Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:29:17 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Choking & Exhustion training pt 2 - -----Original Message----- From: BILL MCGRATH To: eskirma@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 12:05 AM Subject: Choking & Exhustion training pt 2 >Choking: >A question for the doctors on the list. Would a cervical collar provide any >increase in safety for students while practicing choking techniques? I have >seen only two types. >A soft type that goes completely around the neck and a hard type with a >large hole in the front. Are there any others? Something that would >protect the front of the throat might be a good idea during stick sparring >with fencing masks. > >Exhaustion: >A digest member emailed me to ask if Grandmaster Gaje's night exhaustion >training sometimes caused disorientation or a feeling of mild panic. I can >only speak for myself, but I never experienced those feelings. >Disorientation and mild panic sound to me like a low blood sugar reaction. >Maybe the list doctors can comment on that. My question to the docs, would >doing exhaustion training at night (after a full day's meals) rather than >first thing in the morning help avoid reactions to low blood sugar? > >Much of Leo's training involved visualization. It made you more rather than >less focused mentally. You were so tired all you could think about was the >technique. Grandmaster Gaje would tell you to "see" your opponent being hit >by your blows, to literally "See the blood." It was good training but it >has to be balanced or you wind up with a lot of the younger guys with "hair >triggers" in day to day life. I think part of the idea of this exhaustion >training was that you were so whipped by the end of the day you didn't have >the energy to be inefficient. At camps Leo usually made us get up at 5 am. >Morning warm up was Leo and Eddie Jaffri tag teaming against us seeing who >could run us into the ground first. Typically Leo would distroy your upper >body with 100 reps on each of 12 stick drills and then Eddie would kill your >legs (duck walks mixed with front kicks around the field, low ground sweeps >up and down the ski slope). We would work out till 9 or 10 PM with the main >group, then the real training began for the advanced guys. > >This story should give you a feeling for some of these camps. >"Reveille" at one camp was Bujin Matteen on conga drums at 5 AM, all of us >sleeping on the floor of a concrete community center with a tin roof that >seemed to amplify the sound of Bujin's drums (I really hated those drums). >Grandmaster Gaje took the "bootcamp" nature of his training camps seriously. >On the third or four day of a camp in 1980 one of the guys didn't get up >with everyone else when Bujin hit the drums. Leo told him to get up. He said >he would get up later. Leo told him now. He said later. So Leo got a blow >gun that one of the students had and shot the guys in the thigh. The guy >then levitates horizontally about three feet off the ground yelling like a >scalded cat. Leo them told him if he wanted to keep training with him he >would have to get up with everyone else. Leo then took two heavy kampilans >and had the student do sinawalli around the field for an hour while the rest >of us worked out. > >Hmmm. In retrospect disorientation and mild panic don't seem too >unreasonable a reaction after all. > >Regards, >Tuhon Bill McGrath > ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:15:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #63 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.