From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #65 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 13 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 065 In this issue: eskrima: tinactin...tinikting...tintak....o bugger! eskrima: Stanley construction workers knife eskrima: tinactin...tinikting...tintak....o bugger! RE: eskrima: Size and strength do matter. eskrima: PANUNTUKAN/DUMOG/BUNO?????????? INFO PLEASE eskrima: Larry Holmes bio notes eskrima: Lactate on the Brain Re: eskrima: tinactin...tinikting...tintak....o bugger! Re: eskrima: PANUNTUKAN/DUMOG/BUNO?????????? INFO PLEASE eskrima: Minor corrections in PT history eskrima: Lactate on the Brain eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1000+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tenrec Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:20:20 +0000 Subject: eskrima: tinactin...tinikting...tintak....o bugger! Herr Kautz wrote: >Though if you do the "double sinawali" or "heaven 6" while doing the >tinikling it looks cool as hell! That ain't cool...for tourists--maybe... Now if both sticks were on FIRE, now that's kewl! >Get long poles and 2 people dancing it, >one starting on each side - realy nice for demos and does get the footwork >and cardio going. Good co-ordination between the footwork and the han This could be true...particularly as a cardio exercise... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: Peter Sampogna Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:27:27 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Stanley construction workers knife For the "collectors" : I do believe it comes in a a gold spray painted 50th anniversary model. I'll also be offering them in anodized blood red for those people who hate to wash em Pete Sampogna ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 03:20:20 +0000 Subject: eskrima: tinactin...tinikting...tintak....o bugger! Herr Kautz wrote: >Though if you do the "double sinawali" or "heaven 6" while doing the >tinikling it looks cool as hell! That ain't cool...for tourists--maybe... Now if both sticks were on FIRE, now that's kewl! >Get long poles and 2 people dancing it, >one starting on each side - realy nice for demos and does get the footwork >and cardio going. Good co-ordination between the footwork and the han This could be true...particularly as a cardio exercise... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 20:41:21 -0800 Subject: RE: eskrima: Size and strength do matter. Size can be an advantage or a disadvantage. I had a guy in my class that was the national Thai Boxing champion in Korea when he lived their and he used to go fight in Japan, etc. He was invited to fight in china in a "no rules" fight. He said he did pretty well until he was matched up with a girl he said looked like she was thirteen. She stayed inside and kept hitting him in the inside of the arms and legs and slapping him. She won by hitting him in the throat (he couldn't breath...spasms the trachea.) There is also a nice MA called Wing Chung invented by a women. And if you've ever been thrown by a "small" Indonesian doing Kun Tao /Silat where the bigger you are the more it hurts when you go down, then you'll understand how effective small can be. Even the typically big Dutch saw the value of Silat. Work smarter not harder. Jeff Monaghan ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 21:30:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: PANUNTUKAN/DUMOG/BUNO?????????? INFO PLEASE HI , FMA FAMILY .... DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY TRAINING INFO ABOUT THE FMA KICKBOXING AND GRAPPLING ARTS?? PLEASE ANYTHING BUT THE VIDEO TAPE THING! THANKS IN ADVANCE .. HAPPY AND SAFE TRAINING FMA...YEA!! BOUNTYHUNTER ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:39:53 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Larry Holmes bio notes Hello, My computer crashed and I lost the e-addresses of those interested in a copy of my notes. Please email me again and I'll send you a MS Word doc. TIA. Very best, Hy bakayaru@pipeline.com ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 23:00:41 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Lactate on the Brain > I do not seem to learn well when my brain is > flooded with lactate and am surprised that the training method mentioned in > the above post would be effective in imparting permanent retention of a new > skill. > Interesting physiological state there ... brain flooded with lactate? H'mm... if such a state were to exist, how would you know? The brain doesn't do any anaerobic metabolism of glucose (its only fuel source ... the body will digest its own cardiac tissue [gluconeogenesis] to supply the brain with glucose) so how does it get flooded by lactate? Does lactate pass through the blood-brain barrier? I'm not going to pick on this ... but consider that permanent retention of a memory is not dependent on the presence or absence of lactate. The stuff of memory is a function of neurotransmitters, e.g., epinephrine/norepinephrine (adrenalin/noradrenalin), dopamine, acetylcholine, etc. Higher levels of free epinephrine and acetylcholine in the brain are associated with increased mental efficiency and improved memory. Activity increases free epinephrine and will enhance learning. "Stress" as some generic beast is not necessary, just vigorous activity ... enough to get the sympathetic nervous system to dump epi & norepi from the adrenals (coffee does this too, hence an explanation for PART of coffee's enhancement of mental efficiency and learning). The most significant thing I've considered re: Grand Tuhon Gaje's method is the possible role of state-dependent learning. Much of what we learn is state-dependent. An example: If we learn something under the influence of morphine we will recall it better under the influence of morphine. It's largely a chemical thing ... and on the flip side, consider Grand Tuhon Gaje as a trainer of warriors, because what he was doing trained people to be able to perform complex skills in future high-pressure situations. Genius. If/when those guys went under the gun they would more likely than not still be able to do their thing ... perhaps in situations where others might lose it. In an earlier post I mentioned strong emotion as a powerful factor in learning. Emotion is the stuff of true physiological and behavioral power in all organisms capable of emotional experience. Move the emotions and you move the beast. Move the emotions and you move the crowd. OK, moving on ... things that we experience coupled with strong emotion become indelibly stamped on the subconscious (nah I don't know if dassa subtentorial thang or not, but in genrul, dass where it go :-) Boot camps include a little of this, eh? > Perhaps the point is something else, i.e. the skills are not new and are > simply moved into the "subtentorial" portion of the brain by flooding the > frontal lobes with lactate. > H'mm, if the frontal lobes can be flooded with lactate, the whole brain would be flooded with lactate. If the brain were flooded with lactate I don't think that we would have a thinking animal :-) Remember, the brain MUST have glucose and plenty of oxygen. Decrease either and we get lethargic, etc. If we're conscious enough to experience strong emotion, though, the associated experience will be remembered. Emotions are related to motivated behaviors. Motivated behaviors are related to individual or species survival. If an experience is significant enough to induce a strong emotional response it should be remembered ... a survival-linked thing. The emotion dynamic is ++powerful ... it can even cause a woman to ovulate mid-menses. Yah, she can get pregnant during that time of the month ... emotional experience can be that powerful (this particular one is strongly linked to physical experience ;-) Hey, how about this: as a response to training under "stress" and related strong emotion some might just forever remember just how bad they FUBARed whatever they were supposed to do ... until they got it together that is. I'm gonna close this puppy now, but first consider: stress is often a mis-concept. There's DIstress ("bad" stress) and EUstress ("good" stress). What most people refer to when they talk about stress is distress ... and so many people claim that normal stressors are distressful that we're turning into a nation of wusses (what's the obesity level now? Jam, I don't believe somebody would pay $450 to hang out in a "day spa" to get pampered all day!!!). Stress is a necessary dynamic for robust living, for life itself. Without stressors we would degenerate. When stressors push us beyond our ability to satisfactorily cope, then we get motivated to normalize things one way or another (like "I ain't ticked, I'm just highly motivated to normalize the situation in my favor" :-), revise our strategies, explore/learn new coping strategies, etc. If we try to apply old/inappropriate strategies we fail/succumb (the bear gets us). People who learn to master skills in true high stress training situations are adapted/conditioned to (they learn to) cope with a broader range of demands than the average bear. It's only natural that we sometimes perform better when the situational demands increase ... some of it generalizes to survival dynamics ... either we calm, focus and do or ... ? By "calm" I don't mean to suggest relaxation of the type we would use for mental rehearsal, but the type of composure in action that makes us more efficient and effective. OTOH, mental rehearsal of behaviors to be performed in situations characterized by high levels of demand can yield better performance under pressure ... may be related to systematic desensitization. Man, that's more noise than I intended to make. Sorry 'bout dat muchachos. Hope there's something helpful in there for somebody. Be well, Mik Jam! I'm still trying to remember whether or not lactate crosses the blood-brain barrier ... ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:59:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: tinactin...tinikting...tintak....o bugger! Only one post please, not two. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:03:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: PANUNTUKAN/DUMOG/BUNO?????????? INFO PLEASE > HI , > FMA FAMILY .... DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY TRAINING INFO ABOUT THE Please, no 'shouting'. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 12:57:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Minor corrections in PT history I just wanted to correct some minor points in Erik's otherwise excellent post on his early days training with Tom Bisio and Grandmaster Gaje. Erik wrote that "Billy came along about a month or so after" ...he began training with Tom... and "while I was around was more of a student of Eddie Jaffri's than of Leo's." I think it would be more accurate to say that Erik first met me about a month or so after he started training with Tom. Some background should clarify things. Grandmaster Leo Gaje came to the U.S. in 1972. Frank Ortega, Mike and Danny Ducalas were among the original group Leo taught back then. In 1973 Leo moved around the corner from my house in Corona Queens, NY. In addition to his adult class, he was teaching a small group of teenage boys out of the garage of his apartment building and charging $2.00 a week. My parents could not afford to pay for my classes (this was 73 remember) so I had to wait until I turned 14 and could get a paper route to pay for class. By this time inflation had caused the price to go up to $2.50 per week. I began training with Leo in February of 1975. In the summer of 75 Leo dropped the garage class and I moved into the general class which was held in the basements in a number of Filipino businesses. Up until my moving to the main class Leo had me training on footwork and empty hand techniques. At the same time as this Leo was making frequent trips giving seminars in other cities. This is how Erwin Ballarta and Akmeed Bouraca began their training when Leo gave a seminar in Detroit in 1975. In the summer of 1976 Leo moved the class to the Philippine Consulate in Manhattan. I believe that this is when Tom started training. Erik is right when he says that Tom was Leo's best student and I think all of us expected Leo to one day put him in charge of the system. (I think I am where I am today more due to longevity and a good memory for technique than for anything else). I think the thing that creates confusion about PT history is that Leo would often have 2 or 3 classes going on simultaneously in different parts of the city. In 77 he moved into a large apartment building and got me a job as a lifeguard at the healthclub's pool there. The guys I trained with in Leo class at the healthclub were usually different guys then the ones I trained with in Leo's classes in Manhattan and different still from the guys I trained with at the school Leo taught at in Jamaica Queens. It was not unusual for Leo to place a different emphasis on techniques given at each location. Weeknights I would often have dinner with Leo and his family and he would give a different emphasis in informal after-dinner workouts then he would in regular classes. I think he was simply being a good teacher and giving each group what he felt they needed. This may explain Leo's emphasis on finesse in Erik's training. After a few months with Tom I am sure Erik was hitting with good power and Erik never had a problem being aggressive, so Leo worked with him on strategy and technique. If you remember me playing badguy in magazine photos of Grandmaster Gaje in the early 80's you can see how skinny I was. Therefore Leo had me work on power developtment hitting the heavy bag and tires. I was always more interested in knife work than tournaments so Leo had me specialize in knife technique. If he liked you then you got not only what you needed but what you wanted as well. Erik also mentions that at the time he thought I was more of Eddie Jaffri's student than Leo's. From the time we first met Eddie in 77 until I moved with Leo to Texas in 1982, I spent about the same amount of time training with each of them (Eddie shared an apartment with Leo and his family for a time in New York and their living room was often our training area for both Penchak and Pekiti), Erik is right though when he says that, for most people, tournament sparring was different than that done "in house". Fighters tended to do what they believed would win them the tournament and depending on who was judging that often meant hitting your opponent as often as you could with little regard for anything else (The exceptions being Tom and Erwin who always showed the greatest amount of technique and finesse in their sparring. Every technique they learned you saw come out whenever they spared). During in house sparring however, Leo always emphasized treating your opponent's stick as if it were a blade, so you worked on hitting without getting hit. Another thing he emphasized was that you shouldn't get tied up too long with one opponent because of the danger from a second opponent. Therefore while he taught and allowed takedowns during sparing, any finishing technique on the ground had to be completed in 3 seconds. This didn't allow any time for most grappling techniques so finishers on the ground were mostly strikes. Armor for the advanced guys usually was just a Kendo helmet (good front protection but side and top protection was just a half inch of canvas). On our hands we had football armguards which left half your fingers and all of your thumb exposed. At the time it certainly felt like we were hitting hard. I remember Erwin Ballarta getting lifted completely off his feet by a thrust to the groin from Akmeed in the 77 tourney and that he landed on the floor like a deadman. I remember it taking several minutes to revive him. I remember Warren Brown getting a Witik across the side of the head during a 1980 tourney that penetrated the Kendo headgear and the blood that ran down onto his chest from the wound. I remember Mike Franciotti telling me of getting hit on the top of the head by a punyo that had the same bloody result. I remember stick "hickeys" and knots on my head. We must have been hitting pretty hard because I remember several knockouts during stick as well as knife sparring and the heavy steel bars on the Kendo headgear constantly getting bent out of shape. I hope none of my comments are taken as an attempt to diminish the Dog Brother's contribution to stickfighting. I think Erik's greatest contribution was to open the eyes of many people (especially those who never had spared full contact before) to the need to go "all out" to stop a determined opponent and to use every weapon and technique available. Erik's groundwork with the stick has opened up a new dimension to stick fighting that the blade oriented classic FMAs were lacking. The Dog Brother's gatherings have done for all FMAs what used to be done only in house against members of your own style, test yourself against another without having to adjust your technique to please a tournament judge. I think Erik and I will have to "agree to disagree" about how hard Pekiti-Tirsia people hit in the "old days" but we can still agree that Erik and the Dog Brothers have done for stickfighting what one system looking out for it's own interests would not have done-raise the bar for everyone. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:46:08 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Lactate on the Brain My curiosity has really got me by the frontal lobes now ... I've been searching references on the blood brain barrier (BBB) ever since I read the post that talked about performance effects of "frontal lobes flooded with lactate" ... something which could only occur if blood lactate crosses the BBB. OK, I know this ain't no symposium on brain physiology ... I just like to help maintain "accuracy in reporting" lest we fall into more physio-babble (cousin to psycho-babble :-) Anybody can write a book... NEway, altho the brain is an aerobic machine, it does produce some lactate, but the brain's production of lactate is independent of the production of lactate by the skeletal muscles. I haven't found a definitive reference on whether or not blood lactate can affect the brain (I'll probably keep searchin'til I do ... got one'o'dem Ph.D. jones, capiche?). But hey, I did find this ... not gonna discuss it but will present it to foment some more thankin' on the part of the reader re: ATP, creatine and creatine phospahate (per previous post on that topic) ... some text omitted ... There is rapid turnover of ATP in the brain. On the average, about half of the terminal phosphate groups turn over in a 3-second period. The level of creatine phosphate in brain is even higher than ATP, the creatine phosphate shuttle with mitochondria appears to have a central role in energy regulation in cns. [Mik: cns = Central Nervous System, brain and spinal cord] Very low concentrations of glycogen (about 3.3 mMol/Kg) are present in brain but it can serve as an important carbohydrate reserve. Its normal steady-state breakdown corresponds to about 2% of the glycolytic reserve. If the glycogen reserve was the sole energy source, it would only be sufficient to sustain the brain for about a five-min period. [Mik: glycolytic = breakdown of glucose sources (e.g., glycogen) into glucose] [Mik: Many people think that glycogen is only stored in muscles and liver ... in that case, we're all muscle heads or liver-brains ;-] Brain tissue, even when well oxygenated, produces some lactate, corresponding to about 15% of the pyruvate produced from glycolysis (lactate dehydrogenase has brain isozymes) [Mik: isozyme = enzyme similar in function to some other enzyme, "iso" meaning "same"] Energy output in the cns requires very high levels of enzyme activity in the tricarboxylic acid (Krebs) cycle [Mik: Krebs cycle = major energy cycle throughout the body, also called the Citric Acid Cycle] Glutamate has a large blood-brain barrier and is compartmented into several pools-- otherwise death would result !! The glia serve a critical role in this regard both as an active transporter as well as in active maintenance of the blood-brain barrier [Mik: glia = special neuro-cells, so watch out for overloading those glia cells by ingesting a buncha MSG] Mik - Re: Lactate in general ... result of -anaerobic- energy release, a return to -aerobic- activity (catch your breath!) reverses its formation to yield pyruvate which we then use to release more energy via the Krebs cycle. Much of the pyruvate will be converted back into "new" glucose and the process continues. 'Nuff thought provokin' for one day y'all. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 13:26:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #65 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.