From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #87 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 28 Feb 1999 Vol 06 : Num 087 In this issue: eskrima: Totally confusing eskrima: RE: Parkinson's eskrima: Fw: Hee hee eskrima: Sleepy Diet eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #85 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #86 eskrima: Last shot at the meat.... eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #82 eskrima: Native American Diet eskrima: RE: Twirling eskrima: no more diets eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:02:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Totally confusing From John Clements' HACA article (copyright 1998): "As with many others like it, not only did the book miss all this, but it went on to make the inaccurate and misleading statement that "the Spanish rapier and dagger system of fighting has had a great influence on Filipino arts". Sorry, wrong." From page 16, note #22, of John Clements' book "Renaissance Swordsmanship" (copyright 1997): "It is interesting to note that the techniques of Filipino stickfighting owes much of its development to the influence of Spanish explorers who colonized the islands. The Spaniards' rapier-and-dagger method of fighting must have been overwhelming ... Setting cultural pride aside, we should recognize that the rapier's techniques were judged valuable enough by the inhabitants to be incorporated into the native form .... Surprisingly, the modern Filipino stickfighting techniques involve little thrusting. Considering the historicaal precedent, one cannot help but speculate about the present potential of these arts against a skilled fencer or rapier fighter." Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 17:32:31 -0800 Subject: eskrima: RE: Parkinson's As I said before there is no conclusive evidence that taking repeated blows to the head causes Parkinson's disease. Repeated head trauma can lead to Alzheimer's disease or a Parkinson's like disease called degenerative organic brain disorder. Any repeated trauma to the head is likely to cause problems. Most major diseases all have similar symptom's, tremors, etc. Parkinson's disease is a disorder caused by the destruction of part of the substantia nigra called the pars compacta, that sends dopamine secreting nerve fibers to the caudate nucleus and putamen in the basal ganglia. The caudate circuit of the basal ganglia system is responsible for cognitive motor control or more specifically the timing and scale of the movements. Dopamine is thought to have an inhibitory effect on the caudate circuit, thus if the circuit is destroyed then there is nothing to prevent the system from firing. This is what is thought cause the tremors (the oscillating of the circuit do to feedback gains after the lost of inhibition) and the rigidity (the muscles don't relax do to over stimulation). It is also this loss of balance between the inhibitory and excitatory systems that is thought to cause akinesia (inability to initiate movements). Patterns of movement require a combination of inhibition and excitation, if the system is locked in an excitation phase then initiation of movement is blocked. Jeff Monaghan Research Associate UCSF-School of Medicine, Dept. of Neurology ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 18:55:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Fw: Hee hee A Howl etc: If I may be indulged in one of my periodic momentary tangents, , , , , > from USA TODAY/Monday, February 8, 1999; A&E: > > Mariah Carey was one of the first celebrities to comment on > the death of the King of Jordan. Mariah told CNN "I'm > inconsolable at the present time, I was a very good friend of > Jordan, he was probably the greatest basketball player this > country has ever seen, we will never see his like again". > When told by reporters that it was King Hussein of Jordan > who had died and not Michael Jordan, Mariah was then led > away by her security in a state of "confusion". She sure is cute , , , , Crafty ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 19:57:59 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Sleepy Diet OK, I'm all tuckered out after 5 hours of slammin'n'jammin' today so no tome this time :-) > I would posit > the examples of Eskimos and the American Indians before the white man as > examples of healthy people with significant animal protein. > Good point, but a subgroup's specialization does not make right for all ... the Eskimos also consume(d) a lot of fat. They adapted to the condition in which they became isolated. Similarly for American Indians. Now consider what happened when Europeans gave milk to the American Indians ... the Indians got sick, thought they had been poisoned and killed all of the Europeans (Vikings) except for one who got away. The Europeans had adapted to milk consumption after weaning, the Indians got weaned and that was the end of that. Different practices, different development and different physiological potentials ... but still we must respect the idea of "normal ranges." Milk consumption can be tolerated by many people if they continue ingesting milk beyond the age of weaning, but there are some people who cannot tolerate milk after weaning at all. For some there is a pathology which doesn't even allow them to benefit from mother's milk. These are ranges of potential as direct genetic expression and/or conditioned behaviors, eh? We can't make valid global generalizations using specializations as our premises. Some people consider milk drinking to be normal and AOK. How many other species continue to give baby food to its adults? Some people consider heavy flesh-eating OK How many of them get full-blown or subclinical gout (i.e., unfavorable flesh-consumption-related physiological symptoms that they can't "put a finger on")? > I offer the > general feebleness and fragility of so many vegetarians (certainly not all, > the Tarahumara Indians of Mexico do very nicely on beans, corn and corn > beer) as an argument in favor of animal protein. > I don't care about people eating meat, just present the physiological facts and leave it at that. Normal ranges play a role, but the facts are in ... excessive protein intake will cause disturbed physiology one way or another ... and will also predispose cancer, cardiovascular disease and hypertension in peoples of all types if the source is animal flesh. Regardless of source, the outcome can be gout. Regardless of source, protein is protein. Put the essential amino acids together from any source and you've got the protein that the body requires. Some sources just provide extra, often harnful baggage while others do not. Chemically speaking, protein is protein once it's been broken down. Specific proteins are another story, but then we're talking about things like hormones and enzymes, etc. These have variants across phyla, i.e., plants and animals may have some of the same ones but with slight variations (hence the ability to use phytoestrogens to block estrogen receptors and prevent some cancers ... but then there are other phytoestrogens that have direct estrogen-like effects ... similar for other hormones, e.g., in sarsaparilla). I've been following a vegtarian diet for 30 years. Ain't no feeble frail here mon frere. Hey, 3 days a week I strap on almost 50 extra pounds and have at it for at least 3 hours (I sometimes use other added resistance "tools" as well), often that goes to 6 or 8 hours since I'm currently in the job search world (did 5 hours today). Following a vegetarian diet as a "younger man" I used to run 6 miles a day (minimum) and bike/run 14 miles on Sundays. Started every day with a couple mile run then an hour of slammin the bags before going off to a full day and an evening of training. Used to bike 40 miles every Sunday, etc., etc. Meat/animal flesh protein is no advantage ... chemically speaking, protein is protein, or more correctly, protein is amino acids and amino acids are amino acids no matter where they come from. Plant protein sources have the advantage of having none of the detriments we get from consuming animal flesh as a protein source. Most examples of periods of human consumption of animal flesh are evidence of humans doing what they thought they had to do, or doing what they found expedient (easier to eat up an animal that has eaten up a bunch of plant protein, eh? That's why I call it the "lazy way." The expedient/lazy way is often fraught with unforeseen pitfalls), not what was necessarily physiologically appropriate for them to do. Situations bred physiological adaptations, specializations. Specializations do not generalize to the whole (a reversal), they differentiate the whole resulting in diversity. Sometimes specializations can revert, sometimes they can't. > I believe that man's > evolution into a hunter has been one of the most significant steps in his > evolutionary history and is a major factor in why we left the chimpanzee > behind. > Aiya!!! The "b" word!!! :-) The "b" does not make fact or truth. Many primates do some form of hunting once in awhile. The once in awhile part is the key. Chimps, baboons, apes, etc. will consume insects and small critters sometimes (chimps have even been found to consume other chimps ... oy vey, neanderthal Chimps!!! So look at what happened to the neighbor-consuming Neanderthals...) Hey, did you know that Asians are supposedly the last subgroup of humankind that included meat eating in their diet? The base skin color is from high consumption of plant foods (carotenes). The evidence is taken from dental structure. The last molar in most Asians has an extra cusp. Evidence suggests that the retained cusp is related to a longer period of time spent consuming foods that required more grinding (ahem). This further suggests that meat-eating was not a mainstay in early human development. I'm not going to get into the other physiological/structural dynamics that point to what our creature is designed to process, but take a look at your teeth and you'll see fruit/veggie choimpers followed by mostly grinders. Meat eaters have cutting tearing teeth ... we don't. The development of the opposible thumb is where we make the greatest divergence from our primate ancestors. Again, many other primates hunt and war (check out the baboon), that does not separate them from chimps (includes chimps), that does not move them any closer to being humans. Also, we don't come from the chimps ... they're just our supposed closest relative in the animal world, not our root, not at the beginning of our branch in the primate world, so we left something else behind, not the chimp. We've touched on the belief thing before ... belief is what we accept without proof. My teachers have all in one way or another said "Believe nothing, test." Buddha said the same. Train the thinker (reasoning mind) to pursue the -unbiassed- truth and test. The World Health Organization has not built its agenda on belief but on analysis of these issues. Fact is: Human beings do not need meat to be strong. Johnny Weismuller (Tarzan of the '50s) was a vegetarian Olympic champion. I think it was Archie Moore who was a vegetarian champion boxer ... if not he then someone else of his era. There are others. Vegetarian Indian wrestlers were known to defeat Brits during colonial days, etc., etc. The feeble frail vegetarian is just lacking in the know how of living. Some people think that it's just about not including animal flesh or other animal products in the diet. > However the animal protein of our environment can be quite > different from that of the Paleolithic period. > Protein is protein mon frere. The organims that builds that protein ... that's the issue. When I say protein I'm talking chemistry and amino acids: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen => amino acids => peptides => polypeptides, etc. The protein itself is the same, otherwise we would not be (check out physiological chemistry). If Paleolithic protein were different from contemporary protein, what then of the basic "alphabet" of DNA? What then of the basic mechanics of ribosomal proteins, messenger RNA and protein synthesis, etc.? The low level mechanisms have not changed. It's a chemical thing friends. The chemistry of life has not changed. That's part of my point. What we're addressing throughout this 'discussion' is our source of protein. It is fact that we don't need to get all of the amino acids that our bodies require from a single source. It is to our benefit to provide ourselves with amino acids from diverse plant sources because besides finding complementary proteins we will then ingest many other phytochemicals which protect our health, including protection from cancers. Animal flesh cain't do thet, if anything it can help to destroy our health. > Its fatty and riddled with > drugs, hormones, and anti-biotics. > You got that right ... another reason to stay away from it ... find cleaner sources of protein, e.g., organic grains and legumes. In Asia and the Middle East it was muing/soy/rice, lentil/rice, garbanzo/wheat/rice, etc. WE knew to grab the grasses as gatherers. It was cultivation of the grasses that allowed us to stop chasing it and balancing foods all over the place. > Just today I saw a piece in the > newspaper that they have found bacteria on chicken feed for which we have > no anti-biotics. > Dere it is ... mo'reason. Hey, y'know it's the uric acid in the chicken's skin that gives it that great salty taste? H'mm, uric acid, sounds like urea ... uh-oh, sounds like, oh no!!! Yah, you betcha, chickens ain't got no urinary system friends ... except for their skin. You can eliminate/separate the urea (including the urea in beef, etc.) by boiling (getcha some good'ole pot liquor, eh?), but den de meat don't taste so good no mo'! > the agro-industry giving anti-biotics to our food > supply so they can jam more animals together at the cost of destroying the > effectiveness of one of the great scientific advancements of this century, > This is a real bummer and too true. The predominant concept of food is koyaanisquatsi ... out of balance with nature. Maybe future generations will pay the real prices which have nothing to do with the market, everything to do with the quality and duration of their lives. > It may or may not be coincidental that the attorney for Tyson Foods, the > largest employer in the state of Arkansas, was the advisor to Hillary > Clinton ... may be coincidental that the Clinton Administration's first Secretary of > Agriculture got in trouble for, amongst several things, not following up > with increased safety regulations of chicken and beef supply. > Hermano, I ain't surprised by these revelations ... we should all read that FBI guy's book on his tour of duty inside the Clinton White House. With the info provided in that book I find it ++difficult to believe his current status ... no politics intended here ... just read the book. Title follows... Unlimited Access; An FBI Agent Inside the Clinton White House by Gary Aldrich ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ An FBI insider who has worked for the Bureau for more than 30 years offers an electrifying expose of a presidential administration gone awry. Throughout the pages of Unlimited Access, Aldrich relies on eyewitness testimony to reveal that the Clinton staff --characterized by arrogance and ignorance-- has been hostile to the military, the FBI, CIA, and the Secret Service. 288 pp. 50,000 print. Previously annotated in August 1997 "Advance" as a starred title. Published March '98 by REGNERY/GATEWAY (ISBN 0895264064) $15.95 (U.S. Suggested Retail Price) Smart reading muchachos. Oy yeah, OK, so I've had a wee (wee) bit of guarana (caffeine) a couple of times this week before training time. Hey, I'm almost 50 years old man, cut me some slack!!! :-) If I were to drink a cup of regular coffee I'd have to peel myself off the ceiling, can't shut up, talk too fast ... talk about cheap highs ;-) Funny (true) story: I once took a Tibetan monk out to lunch. We had a great time despite his limited English. Went to one of favorite Thai places (only kind of restaurant I'll go into these days). When we ordered I was surprised that he ordered a beef dish and asked: "You're an ordained Buddhist monk and you eat meat?" He replied: "In Tibet we allow because we so high up, nothing growing." I responded: "But you're not in Tibet anymore." He looked up at me, looked around, looked back to his plate, shrugged his shoulders and continued with his meal. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:40:33 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #85 from: leighans@aol.com for a nyc silat teacher.....try master yanna at the indonesian embassy.......if you read the village voice sometimes he has an ad in there......ciao ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 22:50:21 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #86 from:leighans@aol.com what????....are you suggesting that violence is the answer to each and every conflict?.....i dont know about you, but i was always taught that the mind was the most dangerous and important weapon one has.....if i can defuse a situation with a laugh, that sure beats a fight any day.....ciao ------------------------------ From: Michael Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 21:14:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Last shot at the meat.... Since I believe many would like this thread to cease, it is quite off topic, I will ask that you respond to my post via email. I must admit that I find your attitude bordering on arrogance, however, it may simply be that you are that well informed. If you would be so kind as to provide me with references to scientific studies that I can access which support your position. I have read most of the references that are quoted by Atkins, Eades, and others which support the fact that diets high in carbohydrates, especially processed ones, lead to many of the modern diseases which plaque mankind. They seem quite valid. I would be very interested in ready opposing view points. One thing though, if you please, do not quote me studies by the WHO or any other international groups of that sort. My reasoning on this is simple, it would be analagous to my quoting the IMF in discussing international monetary policy. Such groups are all, at their heart, political organizations with a definitive bias toward their political goals. I would be especially interested in studies which support the following: > Human ancestors learned to survive on whatever they could > find as they moved out of the forest, but this does not mean that they > had the best of health ... in fact the opposite has usually been found > to be the case (short-lived, all kinds of diseases and physio-mess ups > due to improper nutrition). Hunter-gatherer phases were always > characterized by more gathering than hunting and -every- society on the planet has based its survival on combinations of grains and legumes. > That's more a statement of capacity rather than a statement of fact. > Like it or not, the consumption of animal flesh is not a VGT for human > beings, particularly when it becomes a mainstay in the daily These seem to be the two salient points, history and health, that every one disagrees on. Look I know what has happened to me since I have switched to more of a hunter gather diet (meats (mostly wild game), fresh vegetables and fruit). Not exactly Atkins or the others, since my emphasis is on the concept of less processed foods. However, as I have stated, their writings do seem to be well supported and I am really interested in opposing view. Regards Michael PS Ray no more on this from me :) ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:43:57 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #82 In a message dated 2/25/99 1:24:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << he then went on to perform "animal control" by putting a duck to sleep, first saying "I nevuh hurt da duck." After he did his thing the duck stopped wrestling around in his hands and laid motionless on the floor after he put it down and walked away ... jumped up squawking after about a minute (talk about knockouts). >> Thats an old stage hypnosis trick and in no way related to martial arts knowledge. I'm curious, was he representing that as some kind proof of his prowess? ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:42:42 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Native American Diet Forgot to mention: It was the American aboriginal peoples' skill and success in cultivating plant foods that secured their success and the success of European colonialization, not their inclusion of animal flesh in their diet. The Native Americans were responsible for the cultivation of many crops which are now taken for granted in places other than the Americas. Their taking of animals was supplemental to the mainstays of their diet(s), just as was the pattern of the hunter-gatherer phase which preceded the large settlements that used to be here. They strove to prevent -koyaanisquatsi-, life out of balance with nature. Koyaanisquatsi, in whatever form it may take, does not always show its effects quickly. It's a "what goes around, comes around" kinda thang. Same is true for things like lifestyle practices that don't show their true colors until later in life ... a parallel holds for in later generations. One Native American nation (can't remember which) had a saying that goes something like: "Make all your decisions with an awareness of how they might affect the next 7 generations" ... usually very difficult to foresee given the complex nature of life, especially when we set it out of balance with nature. There's a pun in there somewhere? NEway, some things are obvious ... the practice of anything that is detrimental to our health should be minimized if not outright rejected. Same holds for the health of the society (which in part may extend into the health of humanity, e.g., the World Health Organization-related comments made in a previous post). Absorb what is useful, reject what is harmful maybe? Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Allen Eastwood" Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 01:29:44 -0600 Subject: eskrima: RE: Twirling > -----Original Message----- > I'm having some trouble twirling my stick. When I do the #3 > and #4 cut through > strikes(Modern Arnis system), I have a hard time twirling the > stick at the end > of the cut through. How long does it take for the wrist to be > able to execute > this motion? Does anyone have any suggestions on exercises > that can "loosen > up" my wrists? > Kelvin Williams > kel620@aol.com I have trouble myself with the Modern Arnis twirling. Paradoxically, the twirling from Serrada doesn't seem to present a problem to me. I do notice that there's a definite difference in the wrist motion. I do find that I do a little better if I relax and try not to force the twirl. But I suspect a lot of my problem just stems from years of training without much twirling. Certainly, make sure that your wrists are warmed up and loose and try to let the weight of the stick "lead" the twirl. - -Allen mixal@onramp.net ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:05:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: no more diets Ok, folks... Time to get chubby. No more diet stuff. Take it to the PETA forum. That is People Eating Tastie Animals... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 08:11:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #87 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.