From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #93 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 3 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 093 In this issue: eskrima: Balisong eskrima: To siniwali or not to siniwali eskrima: Re: EyR eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #92 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #88 eskrima: Political correctness eskrima: Defensor 8 count eskrima: Mental Factor eskrima: Siniwali for Big Joe + eskrima: Siniwali: eskrima: armor construction eskrima: Samar eskrima: 8 count drill eskrima: questions eskrima: RE Sticks eskrima: back home... .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: x96moaidin@wmich.edu Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 10:33:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Balisong Hello. My name is Nairul and I'm interested to know whether anyone knows of the availability of balisong knives made by Valor and Pacific Cutlery. I've searched the whole web and couldn't find any. Hopefully there are still some out there for purchase. Any information is much appreciated. Long live the Eskrimados. ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:01:58 EST Subject: eskrima: To siniwali or not to siniwali In a message dated 99-03-03 10:33:19 EST, you write: << > 2. How many of you think you could actually apply the > Siniwali that you > are or have learned to an actual combat situation involving a skilled > opponent? >> Okay, it's time for Animal to go pogo sticking across thin ice. To tell you the truth I have a slight problem with many of the siniwali practices that I have seen. Having been in both real blade confrontations and enough unchoreographed live steel demos I have to say that my old kung fu's teacher statement makes more and more sense. "If he ain't down after three moves, you're doing something wrong.'" Encouraging something to go on and on makes me nervous because I learned something a long time ago. If he isn't down inside three moves, then I'm going to be the one that is down. Also I get kind of an uncomfortable twinge when I see people clacking sticks together - especially if I see them aiming, not for their opponent, but his stick. We have a box pattern that we practice that covers all nine angles. But it is done at point blank range and if your block doesn't get there, it's time for you to do the Owwie dance. I know this because next to my instructor I move like a pregnant yak and I have done this dance a number of times myself. If you have been training to hit your partners stick instead of him, you might unconsciously fall into that range when you should be trying to lay a shovel upside the guys head. Finally there is the difference between the weight of a practice stick and a carjack. Back in the days before gunpowder was invented I studied fencing. The difference between what you could do with a fencing sabre and what you could do with a real one is amazing. Give me a light practice sword and I could make Basil Rathbone look slow, however 90% of those moves went out the window with a real blade. How many people have practiced siniwali with 2x4s? A thick branch? A length of pipe? A shovel? Unless you play Duncan McLeod and carry your sticks around with you under your long leather coat, you have to use what comes to hand. That signicantly changes the physics and real world application of your siniwali. ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:33:10 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: EyR <>JF I believe my uncle was more concerned with EyR... Espada y Revolver when WW2 came about...heh. As for position they would have used more firepower if they had it. Some of the fighting were in very small areas there was no position to run to if you had not predetermined your escape. One incident my uncle was involved in was when the US had returned and he (and his men ) were caught in heavy bombing crossfire. They were literally being chased by alot of Japanese but their escape route was changed because the military started to bomb that area. - --Rafael-- ------------------------------ From: "Peter A. Kautz" Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 11:45:06 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #92 >from:leighans@aol.com >a note on the european sword techniques.......during the colonial days of >america, the aristocracy here often sought out european sword masters to teach >their sons.....the french were sought after because of their skill, the >italians were sought out for their deviousness, the spanish for the best >combination of the two, and lastly, the english if you werent to attached to >your child.....obviously english swordfighters were not highly >regarded.. > By that point in history, the English Master of Defense were long gone and with them dissapeared much of the English sword style. Sadly they were done in by political manuvering and the new "anti-monopoly" laws in England. The laws contradicted the Royal writ allowing them to be the sole teachers of defense in London, they were disbanded, and the art died out there for the most part. The English also were hesitant to change to the "newer" weapons in vogue that were so popular with others - weapons like the rapier and later the small sword (what these experts you refer to would have been probably teaching by the 1700's) The English masters were of the opinion that if a weapon was unusefull in war, it was questionable. They still utilized pikes, two handed swords, backswords, and all manner of "archaic" weapons (even at that time!) because these had more military application than the rapier - a civilian weapon. In any case - funny quote - - just wanted to give some more info about the English teachers at that point in history. >>Found a video at the Cornell library of fights by Pinoy boxers from the >>20's-40's. > >Prices per copy? Tenrec - sorry, no price on the box - check out the address I posted with the details of the fighters to get ordering info. As for what it looked like - I only had a chance to see it once over the weekend, and as a law abiding citizen would never copy it. Still, the boxers moved very lightly on their feet compared to the Americans. Pancho Villa in paticular was great at using the zoning principles. He also throws a lot of punches that appear to be strikes with the "hammerfist", firing along the #1 and #2 lines while doing a circular evasion with his rear foot. Pancho also keeps a very tight guard by comparison - similar to how coiled you would be in knife fighting. Even as grainy, choppy (going from round 1 to 5 and 6), and for the most part silent as these are, they show an aspect of boxing I'd never before seen. We've heard how Ali was influenced by the Pinoy boxers, after seeing these fights I can see how. Pete Kautz ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:30:42 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #88 In a message dated 3/1/99 10:36:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest- owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > << I'm having some trouble twirling my stick. When I do the #3 and #4 cut > through > strikes(Modern Arnis system), I have a hard time twirling the stick at the > end > of the cut through. How long does it take for the wrist to be able to > execute > this motion? Does anyone have any suggestions on exercises that can "loosen > up" my wrists? > I hope I can help by explaining what had helped me in picking up this material. FMA is a flowing art so everything you do has to flow into the next movement. This includes whether you twirl or don't depending on your personal style. For example, if you break down Arsine's angles of attack to the first four moves you'll find these, if combined, form the figure eight. You can go wide or close with these angles of attack depending on the situation. We all know the figure eight is a great shielding pattern. In shielding with the figure eight you'll find that no matter where the angle of attack is coming from you'll catch your partner's hand in performing this shield. The figure eight is a flowing non stop pattern. The stop would be when you execute the angle five thrust or stab. When you break down the first four angles of attack in Arnis you find, that in close, your attacks would be to the head in one and two and to the ribs in three and four. When you go out into largo mano these attacks all end up in the center of your window: if the weapon hand is there you're taking it out. Now that you see and can feel the flow of the first four angles of attack now on the first, in largo mano, you come down and twirl your bolo inwards and out impacting with a tight grip at your windows center and following with the figure eight into angle two going out twirling outwardwards impacting at center with firm grip coming back up and stop and go to Modern Arnis's Stick form number two and think of the first movement or the out wards shielding block. To continue this flow of the figure eight, throught these movements, at center you have to twirl outwards, like in angle two, flow into four, come out and do a lower version of angle two. In short, angle one is the only twirl that goes to the inside and not the outside of your forearm. On the definition of inwards, if your sword was too long or you didn't go straight arm into the twirl and strike, you would cut the bicep of your weapon arm. All other twirls you'll go outwards and if stopped would end up in the outward shielding block. It is tons easier to show then to explain but just play with this until it works ; ) Malian ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:17:36 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Political correctness Greetings, Last issue Leighhans wrote " So Magellan lost his life, maybe he was just not that good a swordsperson....." To which I reply in screaming angst: "SWORDPERSON"!!!!. Please can't it it just be swordsman or swordswoman? Please?????? Tom Meadows tmeadows@fix.net ------------------------------ From: Cory Andrew Eicher Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:17:52 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: eskrima: Defensor 8 count I study with Greg Goldmahker, a student of Nate Defensor, and I'll give a stab at describing the 8. Starts in chambered right position like the beginning of a basic 6 count. 1- Right hand strike, angle one, retracting like a roof block, ending with the point aimed for an angle 6 (a stab with the right hand from the front side in our numbering system) 2- Left hand strike, angle one, chambers through to the left side 3- right hand angle one, chambering through to over the left arm. 4- left hand strike, angle two, returning to chamber open on the left 5- right hand strike, angle two, chambering under the left arm 6- left hand strike, angle two, chambering open on the left footwork starts being important here... left foot crosses behind right foot with the 7, and right foot uncrosses with the 8 7- right hand strike fired low across the knees (somewhere between angle 4 and angle 10 in our numbering system) chambering open on the right side 8- left hand strike following the same low angle and chambering under the right arm to finish the pattern. There are a couple of wrinkles that can be inserted. If you step in front with your left foot on strike 7, essentially a chicken step, and uncork with shot 8, you end up with a lot of power on that last shot but your orientation is a little bit difficult to continue a pattern. You can also add what Greg calls 'a switch,' essentially finishing the right hand side of this, doing the 1-2-3 counts of a roof 6 and doing the whole thing from the left side. ============================================ Have you seen my garden? It is most peculiar, Nothing there that grows looks anything at all like plants, I hear their voices... -Danny Elfman, "Whole Day Off" ------------------------------ From: Cory Andrew Eicher Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:21:25 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: eskrima: Mental Factor Practice, Practice, Practice My own experience in the FMA is fairly limited (about a year and a half), but I have had a lot of experience using martial arts stuff in actual combat situations. The general idea is train something to the point where even if your brain completely shuts down (which happens more often than many people think under adverse circumstances) the body remembers. ============================================ Have you seen my garden? It is most peculiar, Nothing there that grows looks anything at all like plants, I hear their voices... -Danny Elfman, "Whole Day Off" ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:20:33 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Siniwali for Big Joe + Yo Joe... My take on siniwali, limited as it may be, is that it's greatest value is in the training of fluid, coordinated parries, attacks, checks, etc. The patterned movements of siniwali drills can help prep the nervous system for perception of and response to various attacks and attacking combinations. From the basic drills that I know, I'll put one stick down and do the same patterns with one empty hand (checks, hits) or daga-stick (checks, "hits", slashes). We can similarly switch hands. Then we can lose the sticks altogether ... great stuff. Go back and add in kicks to all of the above ... helps learn natural patterning for kick follow-ups and add flow to all of it. I've encoutnered no better tool for training coordination of the type we might need in a real scrap, especially when including the feet. I confess that that's a point of conviction that I can't present as fact :-) BTW, thanks for all the dynamite responses to the original question ... and Sifu Henderson, yes, please pass my email address on to Guru Bert Labitan. Hey Kevin... I think Martinez covered the "asymmetry" pretty good, yeah? Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:33:22 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Siniwali: A Howl of Greeting to All: Re Ninjoe's siniwali questions: If I have this right, the most common usage of the term siniwali in the US means two weapons of equal length. However in many systems in the Philippines the term means "weaving", which although it is usually done with two weapons of equal length, does not have to be done that way. For example, in Kabaroan there are siniwalis with staff and stick. And when the term is used this way, in various systems there is double stick movement that is not siniwali. I believe it may help communications when speaking with someone from the homeland of the art to remember this. But for most of us I think the term Siniwali means Doble Baston- two sticks (conceivably swords, but not usually) of equal length. Concerning blocking with the middle of the stick: As we recently saw here on the Digest, the term "block" can be a surprisingly slippery one. If we are talking about a block in its most common sense (getting your stick in the way of your opponent's stick and its intended target), I see no problem with using the middle of the stick-- the margin for error might be bigger that way. As for fighting with siniwali (i.e. doble baston): This is an important part of the DBMA curriculum. Since 1995 it has been my preferred approach. I would say that this can be harder for a less experienced fighter (power can get dissipated between the two hands) but if you have been doing the training over the years, then as you get older and slower you may be able to offset the inevitable decline in speed and reflexes with the greater volume of hits over the same amount of time (which in a sense is a form of speed) that comes from cultivated coordination. My role model in this regard has been Top Dog, who doesn't fight siniwali as often as he might because, IMO, it would be too intimidating and he would have a hard time finding takers. When he airs out some siniwali , , , , , As noted in the first DB series, he has a quality I have not seen elsewhere of fluid, independent interaction of his hands/weapons. How to communicate this is an interesting trick, and an important theme in the DBMA curriculum. In DBMA we also have the Krabi Krabong approach, exemplified by Salty Dog. A KK siniwali crashing attack can be a formidable thing to deal with. Although not FMA, KK does fall within the framework of the Majapahit Empire and has, IMHO, what in JKDC is called "the common thread", i.e. natural structural interface with FMA. As for empty hand, well what is empty hand but siniwali? Woof, Guro Crafty As for the emptyhand connection ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:27:52 EST Subject: eskrima: armor construction from: leighans@aol.com just a few words about armor for sparring.......in the southeastern shires, a popular construction method involves plastic pickle buckets, closed cell foam or carpet remnants, and canvas........tools needed are: shears to cut the foam and canvas, either tinsnips or a scroll saw for cutting the plastic, a drill or a hole punch, rivet gun, and needle and thread.......basically what you do is cut the bottom off the bucket so you can kinda flatten it out to see what size and shape you need for each part of the body......that is, the chest, back, arms, legs.......for protection of the knees and elbows, you should use metal......either the aluminium street signs or get some 14 gauge steel.......these can be shaped with a hammer, patience and the appropriate four letter words........thead is another thing......what we use is a minimum of 14 gauge cold rolled steel for the helm......make it a few inches bigger than your head so you can put extra padding inside(unless of course you enjoy experiencing the cymbal effect you see on cartoons when they bang on the garbage can over someone's head)......then attach a grill with openings of no larger than 1"....when all of this is assembled, then you can go out and beat the everloving stew out of each other with relative safety......if you happen to know any sca folk, you may want to ask them for the finer points on construction........but this should give you something that is fairly cheap and safe to work with........ciao ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:09:14 EST Subject: eskrima: Samar I'm looking for some info on WWII and the Phillipines particularily any info related to Samar. Can anyone recommend book(s) or other sources? Also any Waray speakers out there? Is Ariaco Sabit a person's name? place? other? Regards, Travis Kilap@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Virginia Martial Arts" Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:00:08 -0400 Subject: eskrima: 8 count drill The 8 count drill from Guro Defensor that Allen wrote about is practiced by lots of groups. Its known by the Defensor group as Villabrille 8. To make most any drill symetrical, add an odd number of beats to the end so that you start the same drill from the opposite side. The V8 drill above can be changed in this way by adding "roof 3" (for lack of a better name) or forehand, backhand, forehand to the end. It leaves you ready to do the drill from the other side. - --- See you in the sticks, Dale ------------------------------ From: "big Joe A." Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 17:41:56 PST Subject: eskrima: questions Hi people, It's me again ninjoe. I would like to thank those of you who responded to my questions. Mr's Crafty, Terry, Finder,Lastra, and Baet I would be interested in hearing your opinions on the questions I sent in. I am currently working on a few more that I would like answered. I think i'll wait a little while before I send those in. By the way thanks again to those who did answer. I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone else on the list who wants to share their view points. Thanks all, Big Joe A. P.S. Have a good day everyone. I am!! =D ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Timothy J. Hartman" Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 21:15:33 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE Sticks Jeff, Maybe it's just me but I love the smell of sticks when being used! How do your sticks absorb the shock of the impact ,or do they transfer the shock to the users wrists and elbows?If you have a catalog fee free to send me one. Tim Hartman PO Box 116 West Seneca, NY 14224 wmarnis@wmarnis.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:31:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: back home... Hello sunny California... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #93 *************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.