From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #100 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 8 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 100 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Larga Twirling eskrima: Dumog eskrima: Kris Cutlery eskrima: DB-Tape Series II: Pre-Order Suggestion eskrima: Salinas Seminar (fwd) eskrima: blending eskrima: Proposal defeated eskrima: Kabaroan Siniwali eskrima: Re: rejected addresses eskrima: Re: "bambooing" eskrima: Re: Wing Chun Dummy and Liniments eskrima: FIST suits/gear eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J H" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 07:30:19 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Larga Twirling I'm not too certain, but isn't it kind of hard to twirl a traditional larga mano weapon.... like the kampilan? Maybe, redondo is the right word. Maybe, I don't know what I'm talking about?!? Twirling and Seeing Stars, Frybread Boy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 15:54:49 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Dumog I hosted Marc Mcfann recently here in Aberdeen during his European tour and I asked him to be specific on what Dumog is. I have heard many statements concerning dumog which have confused me. The criticism, if that's what it can be called, with so many top instructors is that they blend into other arts so much that sometimes the correct definition cannot be pinpointed. On the other side I see someone demonstrating Dumog and I presume that they flow into other arts. I see them putting on an arm bar and I relate it to the judo juji getame. Then I am guilty of confusing the issue. The simple fact is that one technique is rarely exclusive to one particular art and the same in Dumog. Its there in all the seminars I have seen under the great and mighty but I was not familiar enough to recognize it. I made the following narrative for someone (Bill Lowery) who asked me on the content of the seminar. I will just briefly include it as it may be of assistance to you marc started the seminar with Dumog and the notes I have made from the tape so far are not easy to mail and a bit difficult if you have no grappling background. As marc can blend one art to another I asked him to pinpoint Dumog for an hour and a half. Starting from the feeder giving a jab cross, you catch and parry giving an upward guntin with the right hand to their right tricep. Sliding the right hand down to their wrist you turn clockwise delivering a left elbow. Once connected the elbow extends to an eye jab which comes back inserting the wrist into the crook of their right arm whilst pushing with your right hand against their wrist turning it anti clockwise into a figure of four lock. The left elbow should connect with the chin as you turn anti clockwise bending your knees. This will constitute a takedown. They will be lying on their back with you holding their right arm. There are four positions to place your feet in sectors between the arms and head. These culminate into falling down into a straight arm bar (juji or juji getame) and we covered the counter to your opponents counter in this position. From the position taken after the take down it is possible to move them onto their front by working the arm bar - as you stand - against your left shin while you step clockwise with your right foot. They will roll onto the front allowing you the four sectors in which to place the feet and execute arm bars. Instead of moving them via the shin press you could just step over the body with the arm bar and execute the same four sector positions. That's all I watched last night but is the essence. I did that with no notes just now! :-) The same entrance into Peuter kepala could take us into the same finishes Hope this helps Pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group ------------------------------ From: "David W. Fulton" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:10:52 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Kris Cutlery Michael Koblic wrote: > >>I don't recall (Kris Cutlery) having any knife & sword >>sets, or any knives at all for that matter, on the web site. > >Kris cutlery do cary a knife and a longer bladed weapon (?Bolo ?Parang >?sword) in a set called Espada y Daga. The bigger weapon weighs about a pound. Yes, Kris Cutlery does sell a matched set, but the above is a misquote of my response to Vedo's feed back on a sword & dagger set he purchased from Visayan Legacy. I still do not see any matched sets, or any "live" daggers at all, on the Visayan Legacy site. I have not looked at their training blades though. Note: Vedo only said he'd purchased a "Kris Knife and Sword Set" from Visayan Legacy. He did not say they were a _matched_ set. However, when I think of something as being a "set", I think of them as matching. This might account for some of the confusion, but doesn't explain absences of real daggers on their site. Respectfully, Dave dwf@computerpackages.com ------------------------------ From: Ingo Bojak Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:13:02 +0100 (NFT) Subject: eskrima: DB-Tape Series II: Pre-Order Suggestion Hi, since the second series of DB tapes shouldn't be that far from completion, how about taking pre-orders at say 10% discount? I for one would order the second set now without knowing a thing about it on the strength of the first set (which is still the best I ever bought). And wouldn't it be nice for Crafty & Co. to be able to sell the tapes as fast as they get copied? Oh yes, please include PAL conversion for us foreign folks and please get a secure server where I can punch in my credit card number... Sending money to the US is a pain otherwise. Also, I have heard that Alfred Plath is trying to get Crafty for a first seminar (or even DB competition?) in Germany. Any news on that? Ciao, Ingo - --- "If the Lord Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon creation, I should have recommended something simpler." (Alphonse X) ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:00:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Salinas Seminar (fwd) Forwarding seminar info from Mike Inay. Salinas is south of San Jose, CA. Ray - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: From Eskrimador@aol.com Mon Mar 8 08:47:08 1999 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:37:47 EST Subject: Salinas Seminar Hi Ray, I'll be doing a Seminar in Salinas California on Saturday the 13th. TIme is set for 1 PM. It will be hosted by the Kugtar Martial Arts Academy in Salinas. I dont know the address or phone number. I'm waiting for them to tell me. But it's confirmed, I talked to Professor James Morro and he said we'd start at one pm. Regards Suro ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:35:05 -0800 Subject: eskrima: blending > Just one more centavo to add to the perplexity. GM Ramiro >Estalilla Jr. teaches a unique twist to the Sinawali by merging or >blending with the opponents strikes. Sounds almost like the blending of Derobio, where one always passes the blow rather than meet it. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:45:54 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Proposal defeated A Howl of Greeting to All: Thanks to one and all who signed the electronic petition (hosted by the Libertarian Party BTW) against the outrageous proposed "know your customer" regulations. There were over 150,000 of you! You may be interested to know that the Congress received 180,00 letters on this matter with less than 150 in favor. The Senate has voted 88-0 to kill this turkey. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Be ready, no doubt they will be at it again. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:14:52 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Kabaroan Siniwali A Howl of Greeting to All: Lino wrote: > Just one more centavo to add to the perplexity. GM Ramiro > Estalilla Jr. teaches a unique twist to the Sinawali by merging or > blending with the opponents strikes. In an earlier post, Guro Denny had > stated that Guro Inosanto had definitely seen something that they hadn't > seen before. Amongst other things I assume that they were eluding to > this? Well, I don't remember specifically which were the things that Guro I. said he hadn't seen before, but I sure do know that this was one of many that I hadn't. > After playing this concept (one of the core's from Kabaroan) the > Sinawali becomes more "active" (if I can use that term), in such that > there become's one partner whose role it is to be a feeder and the > trainee who responds accordingly (similar to focus mitt training). I > guess one way to look at it would be kind of like an "active Mok Jong". > > What happens then with the Sinawali is that the pattern of symmetry > becomes disrupted and assymetrical hitting takes place and you are > forced to move unpatterned concentrating only on the strikes coming in > either left or right hand whichever is available (sometimes using one > hand to thwart several strikes). In doing so, you can bail out of the > pattern or get back into a patterned response (part of the fun). If > this sounds difficult to the trainer, it's also difficult for the feeder > as well, being that the purpose of merging in Kabaroan will take his > weapon "off line" making it more dificult to recover. > This leads into "Chaos Sinawali" which is good too! Good description. GM Estalilla worked this with me when I visited him, and speaking as an active Sinawali fighter I would say that this training is really fun and very functional. In a sense, it even becomes a meditation because the mind must go silent lest it go mad. Good stuff! Of course it requires that the basics of sinawali be in place, not only for the one being trained, but also the feeder because, as Lino points out, his weapon is being knocked off-line. Inosanto Blend people who have done the half-beat variation of the sinawali patterns will recognize the feeling. From my most brief exposures to Kabaroan (something which I intend to rectify) I certainly make no pretense at even being a beginner in the system, but I do wish to say that this concept is not the only one wherein Kabaroan has influenced my thinking and I wish to thank GM Estalilla. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:28:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: rejected addresses FYI, two folks have mentioned that their mail to the list (either the_dojang or eskrima) has been bounced back to them. The following describes why that occurred, at least in one case. In short, some addrs are being filtered out because those orginating sites have been used in the past to relay SPAM. Not you the user, but the site you're routing through. Ray - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Subject: Re: rejected address > Could this be related to the anti-spam work you mentioned awhile back in > hp.mail? Yep. ORBS is a list of open relays which have been used to relay SPAM. By using their service, we get fairly rapid blocking of relay sites, and nearly automatic removal as they fix their problem. Centralization is a good thing. The bad news is that we can have a slightly higher false positive rate, since some of the open relays out there also happen to pass business mail. Our preference is that hte open relay site fix their mailer and get removed from ORBS that way, rather than poking a hole for them: after all, they have been used as an active relay, or they wouldn't be in the database. See www.orbs.org. > > Diagnostic code: smtp; 550 Service unavailable; blocked using relays.orbs. > org Whatever IP address connected to onet2, it was listed in the ORBS. > > Remote system: dns; onet2-y.cup.hp.com > > (TCP|208.210.201.7|51756|15.255.208.3|25) (onet2.cup.hp.com ESMTP Postfix) > (onet2.cup.hp.com) It would appear that 208.210.201.7 (mail.telapex.com) is listed as an open relay. If they have corrected things such that this is no longer true, they should visit www.orbs.org and follow the links to the process for removing themselves from the list. > the_dojang is a dist list I admin. I continue to get e-mail directed to it, > so I'm confused as to why this one was rejected. It was sent to me by the > original submitter. It's the client address, not the destination that caused the rejection. ------------------------------ From: John Frankl Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:46:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: "bambooing" > The concept of "bambooing" is that we try to sway away from a blow and > come back to the attack just as a bamboo plant would sway in the wind. > The feet don't necessarily step much. that way, you can stay in range > for your counter. This is the boxer's "snapback". In Germany, some of > the Balintawak groups use the term "waving". I prefer the term swaying > myself, since "bambooing" is not very good English. The boxers do very > similar stuff with their slipping, bobbing, weaving, and snapback > motions. I don't know if all boxing coaches use these terms, but this > is what is used in the boxing books I own. This was termed "elastico" by Tatang Illustrissimo and his students, and was used as the most basic largo mano training. I think the boxing comparison is apt, particularly for the following reason: boxers are forbidden from hitting below the belt (let alone kicking there). And just as a boxer's "heavy" lead leg is a liability against a good leg kicker, this sort of strategy is liable to get one taken out against a good (Top Dog/DBMA come to mind) leg attack. I wonder if the "fading" attacks of Illustrissim/Lameco weren't designed to exploit just such a reliance on upper body movement? John ------------------------------ From: "J H" Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 12:39:03 PST Subject: eskrima: Re: Wing Chun Dummy and Liniments How about a tire dummy? They seem to absorb strikes a little better, and they're great to snuggle with!!! I've got the plans somewhere... I'll post them within the next week. *** Does anyone have any recipes for bone/ bruise liniments, or tonics that they'd like to post? Thanks! Fry Bread Boy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Jeff Cook Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 11:19:29 -0500 Subject: eskrima: FIST suits/gear We use FIST gear (have four complete suits, and approx. eight "helmets") for defensive-tactics training at a police academy. While the suits are substantial enough for full-power body shots, the headgear leaves alot to be desired. The headgear fogs up quickly (all but eliminating visibility) and we've experienced several knock-outs and I personally received 22 stitches over an eye while using them. I'd like to find something better - capable of withstanding elbows, full-power stiff-arm palm strikes, etc. We had a HITMAN suit as a demo model earlier in the year. Again, the suit was OK (although even heavier than the FIST model) but the headgear was even worse! Jeff ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:27:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #100 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.