From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #102 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 10 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 102 In this issue: eskrima: Dumog eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 eskrima: Instructors in the Wisconsin Area eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 eskrima: Ron Balicki Seminar eskrima: Sinawali, drills, and the Garimot System eskrima: Re: Plastic Sticks eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 eskrima: RE: DB2 vids eskrima: Global Pacification eskrima: DB2 vids eskrima: Dumog eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 eskrima: Alternative Materials eskrima: Re: mental factor eskrima: In the Seatle Area. (fwd) Re: eskrima: Re: Plastic Sticks eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David W. Fulton" Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 11:17:07 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Dumog Patrick Davies you wrote: > > The simple fact is that one technique is rarely exclusive to one >particular art and the same in Dumog. Its there in all the seminars I have >seen under the great and mighty but I was not familiar enough to recognize >it. This has been my experience as well with the traditional blocks from karate for example. They didn't make much sense until I was exposed to the limb destructions of FMA & Silat. Very few karate sensei's teach the blocks as destructions though. > Starting from the feeder giving a jab cross, you catch and parry >giving an upward guntin with the right hand to their right tricep. Sliding >the right hand down to their wrist you turn clockwise delivering a left >elbow. Once connected the elbow extends to an eye jab which comes back >inserting the wrist into the crook of their right arm whilst pushing with >your right hand against their wrist turning it anti clockwise into a figure >of four lock. The left elbow should connect with the chin as you turn anti >clockwise bending your knees. This will constitute a takedown. This sounds like one of the basic combinations from Guro Inosanto's Maphilindo Silat system, except it seems to me that your right elbow is the one that would connect with their chin as you turn. > They will be lying on their back with you holding their right arm. >There are four positions to place your feet in sectors between the arms and >head. These culminate into falling down into a straight arm bar (juji or >juji getame) and we covered the counter to your opponents counter in this >position. > From the position taken after the take down it is possible to move >them onto their front by working the arm bar - as you stand - against your >left shin while you step clockwise with your right foot. They will roll onto >the front allowing you the four sectors in which to place the feet and >execute arm bars. > Instead of moving them via the shin press you could just step over >the body with the arm bar and execute the same four sector positions. Just for grins, another option, from classical japanese jujutsu. Once you have the take down, use your left foot and dig the tip of the big toe (or tip of the shoe) into the pressure point on their side (under the arm & in a direct line with their nipple). Now lever their elbow using your left knee as the fulcrum. The body's natural reaction to each stimuli accentuates the other stimuli. The result is all they can do is flop around and scream a lot. >The same entrance into Peuter kepala could take us into the same finishes I like Peuter Kepala, which is very similar to Tienshin (sp?), the "Heaven & Earth" throw from jujutsu. It's amazing how much some of this stuff overlaps once you get past the way it's been stylized. Btw, using the jab/cross scenario Pat described above, I believe there's supposed to be two ways to do Peuter Kepala (one turns him clockwise and the other counter-clockwise), but it's been a while since I've done Maphilindo so I can't remember the counter-clockwise version. Anyone happen to remember the counter-clockwise version? Can you describe it? TIA Dave dwf@computerpackages.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:29:53 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 In a message dated 99-03-09 11:04:17 EST, Steve Wolk wrote: << The second and third techniques should hit the hand, arm, head, etc. Thus, in application, the attacker should never even get to his second shot - he should be blasted several times after the first. Thus, the programming should not be a huge issue in this interpretation. >> Okay, so instead of having him beat on his training partner do you have a practice dummy? Hmmm not a bad idea. A post with holes in it, so that you can move a wooden arm around to simulate different angles of attack. Then you Taz your way up the arm doing a particular sinawali pattern. Think that might work to get past the idea of not clacking sticks, but really whomping the person? Animal ------------------------------ From: "J H" Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 08:57:54 PST Subject: eskrima: Instructors in the Wisconsin Area Happy Tuesday! I have a 15 or 16 year old friend that is interested in some blade oriented training in the Wisconsin area. Does anyone know of any KDM/knife instructors that teach( minors) in that neck of the woods? Thanks! Fry Bread Boy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:55:48 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 In a message dated 99-03-09 11:04:17 EST, Mik wrote: << The current cohort of PC people in influential positions must be responded to. Altho our culture glorifies heroes in the media/on the screen, it often lassoes their hands in the real world. >> From Animal Actually if you put aside WWF (soap opera for bubbas), you can see a rather interesting twist on the hero in the media. PCers love nothing more than to listen to their own voices. Have you noticed that the current crop of he-men fighting for what is right are lawyers? Yep, that manly man stud swaggers into the court room and with his briefs a blazing, he defeats the armies of evil, corruption and greed. Yahoo, what a convienent way to stop wrongs without getting your hands dirty. I know this is seemingly off topic Ray, but I do feel it affects us in the martial arts as many people would love to put a glass ceiling on so-called violence. Unfortunately most people's definition of violence is "anything beyond what I am comfortable with in order to win." Some of the most violent people I have ever met have never thrown a punch in their lives. In fact, many are avowed pacifists. Knowing the true definition of violence is of critical import when we encounter such a person trying to control us through their own convienent definition of what is and isn't violence. Here, for the record is the Random House Unabridged definition 1) Violence: A swift and intense force 2) Rough or injurious physical force, action or treatment 3) an unjust or unwarranted exertion of force or power, as against rights or laws 4) a violent act or proceeding 5) Rough or immoderate vehemence as of feeling or language. 6) injury as from distortion of meaning or fact. Notice that only one of those definitions has to do with purely physical application. One of my assistants in my Women's Self-defense course summed it up beautifully one day when his wife protested that she was a pacifist. "You're not a pacifist, you're just afraid of physical violence" In my opinion most people who strive to limit physical violence do so from the stand point that they want to keep it in the areas that they are competent in (i.e. verbal violence). In effect, this is like us saying guns are bad, but knives are okay. Everyone should carry knives in order to defend ourselves. Since we are "eskrima experts" if such a world were created, it would put us at the distinct advantage wouldn't it? People who don't realize that they could end up paying for verbal violence with blood are more likely to become "violent" than those who do. They are far more likely to fly off the handle than someone who knows that there is a price tag attached. It has been my experience that except for a few notable exception most martial artists don't engage in either verbal or physical violence without just cause. Maybe because we realize that it could escalate to physical. I would like to quote my friend Bob Orlando from his book "Martial Arts America": A warrior may choose pacifism, others are condemned to it" Don't buy this superiority trip by so-called PCers or pacifists that what they do isn't violent. They just don't want to get their hands dirty, so they hire others to do that kind of work for them. ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:08:53 EST Subject: eskrima: Ron Balicki Seminar Hi Everyone, I will be in seminar in Grand Junction, Colorado this weekend the the 13th and 14th at the High Desert Martial Arts Academy. For starting time and prices call Troy Miller at (970) 243-8010 We will cover: Kali Double and single stick Knife Maphilindo Silat Shoot Wrestling Jun Fan Gung Fu Thai Boxing Hope to see you there. Ron Balicki ------------------------------ From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\" Sardinas" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:39:33 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Sinawali, drills, and the Garimot System Steve Wolk wrote: Beginners get mostly drills. Advanced students practice the basic drills less often, to avoid the "incorrect programming". Steve also referred to what Animal wrote: "do you have some sort of way to teach the difference to your students between drill and application? Getting those issues of coordination, physics, etc down pat are really critical. But where do you draw the line between drills and applications? And how do you get your students over that hump? For comparison, in the Garimot System of Arnis, every drill taught has an application, every drill is a component of another and can be applied basically with any weapon. There is no "incorrect programming". Emphasis is placed on flow with beginning students and the intricate details of the drills are recognized by the advanced students. This way there are no humps for the students to get over. Also in contrast the advanced students practice the basic drills more than the beginning students because all the basic drills are embedded in the "advanced techniques" which may incorporate 3 or more basic drills. One final thought is that the most complicated piece of music consists of basic notes and could not exist without them. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: Cory Andrew Eicher Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:33:34 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: eskrima: Re: Plastic Sticks If you haven't seen a any of Jeff Finder's sticks, you really should. I just got a pair of the Cobras in January and I've been very happy with them. They are more rigid and harder than rattan, but they also seem to be just about indestructable. At first I had some difficulty with gripping them (the Cobras are significantly more slippery than either rattan or the Panthers II, which are used by one of my friends) but after I roughed the grip areas with the sharp edge of a file they work very well. From what I can tell, the price is worth the lifespan of the materials, not to mention the convienience of not having to order rattan. Thanks Jeff! ============================================ Have you seen my garden? It is most peculiar, Nothing there that grows looks anything at all like plants, I hear their voices... -Danny Elfman, "Whole Day Off" ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:51:24 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 Attention A quick note. Guru Richard Desbordes of the Harimau-Minangkabau style of silat that comes from Sumatra will be at the Magda Institute on Wed 10 of March from 7pm to 10pm. It will be a workshop that will blow your mind. Cost is $30- Magda Institute is 818-3422455 and is located at 7255 Canby ave, Reseda, Ca, 91335. or check out website www.cassmagda.com . No spectators. Regards Magda Institute. ------------------------------ From: "Lankford, James" Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:52:38 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: DB2 vids ------------------------------ so how much of this is valid? http://www.bloodsport.com/article.htm > > Also, because at the moment it appears that I will not be fighting in > Fall Gathering, ...Because my Cindy is pregnant and due on August 31st ... < Congratulations !! > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ From: Kalki Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:11:53 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Global Pacification Just FYI, the idea of "Global Pacification" (i.e., no weapons for the people) is not a sci-fi trip. Such a proposal has been forwarded by a number of nations with the apparent intention of reducing violence -in the UNITED STATES-. Our descendants could be thrown back to sticks and stones, eh? Think it's impossible/improbable? A number of figures in the U.N. have expressed similar interests, like they don't have enough to manage in the internal affairs of their own nations let alone meddle with ours. Stretch yo'mind abit ... life IsA sci-fi story :-) If one looks into the politics of what's happening at the level of U.N. it becomes quickly obvious that there are extra-national interests messing with such things as our national parks and the high-level dynamics of our armed forces. Consider too that John F. Kennedy made it possible for the U.S. President to relinquish command of the U.S. Armed Forces to the U.N., similar to Emergency Powers stuff. It's a LAW baby (don't believe me, check it out). Are we aleep or what? NEway, the Citizen's Right to Self Defense Bill is a VGT IMHO. Re: "Global Pacification" ... that was Kung-Tze's ("Confucius") intent (more like Global Domination!;-). Interesting thing in Kung-Tze's pronouncements re: attaining victory. He said that to ensure victory first we must raise the general level of -morality- of the people (hey, otherwise ... how you gon'trust whoever's s'posed to be watchin'yer back? I know some people I would NOT want to be stuck in a bunker with). H'mmmmm ... you think they'll let us keep our sticks??? I'm going to look up that Citizen's Right to Self Defense Act/Bill and post relevant info. We need legislation like this (and good lawyers to support us if we ever need to cite it). Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Ingo Bojak Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:55:53 +0100 (NFT) Subject: eskrima: DB2 vids On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 Marc Denny wrote: > My family on my father's side came from Germany, and you are very crafty-- > are you sure you aren't a relative? ;-) > I assume that in the time range we are talking about (couple of centuries) my ancestors on my father's side were still hanging around in Hungary, so I guess not. =o) > Tail wags for the kind words! While the idea of pre-orders has its appeal, > look at how many months behind I was in getting the DBMAA announced. > Yeah, but remember the nice thing: combine my pre-order idea with finally getting credit card support and then the pre-orders can be simply cashed in whenever you stop goofing around and complete the tapes! And concerning crankiness, I'm cranky about not having seen anything new in years anyway. Copyright year is what, 1993? You _need_ some pressure from whining people like me... ;-) > Salty Dog, a.k.a. "the Silent Force" of the Council of Elders of the Dog > Brothers, in his laconic way recently helped clear things up for me on this > last point. The first series he said, established us as fighters. Let the > second establish DBMA as a system. There it is! > OK, but don't you dare to not include new fighting footage. That's what I liked most, first instruction and demonstration and then how it looks in "real life". That was really something new. > Because my Cindy is pregnant and due on August 31st and I suspect I > may not be in fighting shape. > Congratulations! > > Also, I have heard that Alfred Plath is trying to get Crafty for a first > > seminar , , , in Germany. Any news on that? > News to me, but I'm game. > I cite from the "El Juramentado" of '99 (Alfred Plath's Eskrima magazine) on page 38: Alfred Plath plant ein Seminar mit "DOG BROTHER" Mitbegruender Mark Denny in Deutschland. Noch stehen rechtliche Probleme im Raum. Willkommen werden alle sein die sich ohne Regeln und laestige Schutzausruestung beweisen wollen. My translation: Alfred Plath plans a seminar with "DOG BROTHER" co-founder Marc Denny in Germany. Legal problems still have to be dealt with. Everybody who wants to prove himself without rules and annoying protective gear will be welcome. That even sounded to me like a first DB-type gathering in Germany. Which I would have joined only to enthusiastically cheer, I fear (not only is my FMA in its infancy, I recently shredded all three ligaments in the shoulder corner joint [so called Tossy 3] in Judo). Ciao, Ingo - --- "If the Lord Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon creation, I should have recommended something simpler." (Alphonse X) ------------------------------ From: Andrew R Breton Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:33:19 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Dumog Patrick, Thanks for you very insightful answer to my question. I am familiar with a number of different grappling systems. Nevertheless, I remember viewing Paul Vunak's video on the subject and seeing things in a slightly different light. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Wed, 10 Mar 99 00:21:39 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #101 > Typically we are working very close, >and often head hunting (more specifically finger jab eye attacks or >punyo attacks). Often a good range, but I have a question for all out there: if one chooses to specialize in this range what are the implications for stick length? >It may not be that easy to capitalize on a transitory >and perhaps theoretical opening. Certainly it is possible. Keep in mind >that this is dynamic, not static. You have only a short window of >opportunity, and I can still counter your leg attack in various ways. >Because I may not have stepped back, I might be deceptively close, and >my snapback may well put you on the defensive very quickly. Speaking of putting one on the defensive--I never meant this to be an "I"-"you" thing. > So, in short, I can't agree >that there is any particular weakness against leg kicks. I wrote of leg attacks in general, specifically, however, I was thinking of a long(ish) impact or edged weapon. The "kick" was inserted for the boxing analogy. John ------------------------------ From: Lonnie Pollard Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:35:45 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Alternative Materials << Cause I've been looking for a section of telephone/utility pole to make a pseudo Wing Chun Dummy for training. any idea where to start looking? >> You might also want to consider large diameter PVC pipe. The small diameter stuff is brittle and breaks too easily, but once you get to the larger diameter stuff with the 1/4" thick walls, it is quite strong. I have the original training post that I made with 4" PVC that has gone through enormous abuse from my "Stickman" synthetic plastic sticks. Neither the post nor the sticks have suffered from the abuse. You would probably want something around 8" diameter PVC for what it sounds like you want to do. BTW, on the subject of wooden sticks, about a year and a half ago Gat Puno Abon introduced me to sticks from other sources of wood, which is something he learned from his father back in Paete, Philippines. He told me a large number of options, showing me examples of them from his personal collection, and because I had several citrus trees in my backyard I decided to go with citrus. I chose to go with lime, and after making the stick I showed it to Gat Puno Abon to see if it was OK. That original lime stick is still in excellent condition, and I've put it through grueling sessions of severe abuse that normally shreds a rattan stick quickly. I've also put it up against hard impact against the synthetic sticks, and they aren't dented or otherwise affected from the abuse. The stick feels somewhat like bone, though heavier and denser, and it makes for a very hard weapon. I was surprised to see Gat Puno Abon post some information about some of these woods back about a month ago when he generously posted quite a bit of information about various woods and their resistance to swords. Best wishes, Lonnie a student of the "Garimot" system of Arnis ------------------------------ From: "paul martin" Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:09:33 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: mental factor Mik commented: " sum it up to say that we should step into the psych process before the adrenaline gets dumped into the blood because whether negative or positive it will push us further in the direction that we're going psychologically. Regular training and mental rehearsal can go a long way in this regard. Our armed forces and police forces should use more= ." There is alot of planning and research into the best ways to prepa= re a person for the stress of combat while maintaining a level of safety= . The methods and research aren't as easy to see when your on the recie= ving end of the training or hear stories from friends who were there (an= d may be embellishing to make it sound cooler...) ore when it is used in= the movies as a tool to entertain. The truth is that Mik's own answer = is the technique that the military uses to prepare troops mentally: pre= - -event conditioning and repetition of technique is the mainstay of milit= ary combat arms training. Some people use the term of saturation traini= ng - which means do it until your so good at it you get frustrated inste= ad of nervous about having to do it again and again. The important point militarily and in civilian self defense is to = train with a goal/mission/purpose so you always know what you are doing = and why you are doing it. I have seen too many people who were good tec= hniquely, but had no focus or understanding of why they were doing it. = If you can keep that goal in your head while your training, the little s= tumbles and mistakes along the way won't stop you. They may even make y= ou train better if you know that they are keeping you from your goals. New question: Along the line of this mental factor, how many of y= ou find yourself translating your ability to deal with stress through FM= A training into the regular world. Some people call it "mental Judo" bu= t I like "mental martial arts" better. Now not just the confidence that= really good training can instill in you, but actually strategies of dea= ling with everyday people that were inspired by your FMA training? I kn= ow that law enforcement types get alot of training made available to the= m on this (whether they take advantage of it is up to them) but what abo= ut the Joe civilian types? Paul LookSmart =85 or keep looking. http://www.looksmart.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:55:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: In the Seatle Area. (fwd) Forwarded message: From Eskrimador@aol.com Tue Mar 9 09:03:08 1999 Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:40:26 EST To: raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: In the Seatle Area. Hi Ray, I will be doing a Larga Mano Instructors Clinic (Closed seminar) in the Seattle area on March 20th/21st. If you know of any schools or interested individuals wanting to host a mini-seminar, I would be available to do a one while in that area. I could even drive up to Vancouver if there is an interest. It would have to be on a week-night. If anyone is interested have them contact me at Eskrimador@aol.com. Regards Suro Mike Inay ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:58:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Plastic Sticks > If you haven't seen a any of Jeff Finder's sticks, you really > should. I just got a pair of the Cobras in January and I've been > very happy with them. They are more rigid and harder than > rattan, but they also seem to be just about indestructable. Well, yes, but with all due respect to Jeff, they just aren't like using rattan. Sorry, just MHO. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:38:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #102 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.