From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #108 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 13 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 108 In this issue: eskrima: Kerambit + eskrima: Tool Dip eskrima: tool dip (2) eskrima: Closure eskrima: No more politics... eskrima: Sundry Re: eskrima: Tool Dip eskrima: Re- HGH Re: eskrima: Sundry eskrima: DB/PT History Part 2 (fwd) eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kalki Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:14:09 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Kerambit + I'm still looking for a good kerambit of a type that I've seen which is supposedly used in Indonesia. The blade portion was very small, hooked and protruded from the base of the fist. Most of the kerambits that I've seen for sale have been too large for the type of use I'd like to train (a la palm stick). Has anyone seen the kerambit shown by Pendekar Sanders in one of his tapes? That's what I'm looking for ... anyone know of sources for something like that? I've seen Laci Szabo's (spelling?) "Filipino Box Cutter" ... maybe a reasonable explanation for a kerambit? ... i.e., "Oh, that's just a box-opener sir ... makes opening stuff like UPS deliveries a little easier. I'm always getting packages from UPS." :-) > Rape should not > and can be enjoyed. Any advice to "lay back and enjoy it" only shows the > blatant ignorance and lack of compassion by the instructor saying it. > I'm sure you meant "can not" in the above friend ... emotion moves quickly, eh? Not only does the statement show ignorance and a lack of compassion, but also a lack of basic respect/decency/morality. It essentially suggests that the man is a would-be rapist. Hammurabi, yeah! Babylon. Great workout tune: "Tower of Babel" by Spyrogyra. It's 11:15 PM here but just thinking about that tune (I use it a LOT!!!) makes me want to "suit up" and have at the bag for awhile. Be well, Mik ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:44:47 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Tool Dip I've used tool dip on rattan for handles (thought it was just ok) and have used it on a whole fiberglass stick. Wasn't really worth the effort, IMHO. It is pretty tough and held up alright. Even if it gets a tear, it doesn't just run. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 21:47:51 -0800 Subject: eskrima: tool dip (2) Generally I just would do the handle, not the whole stick. To hang it, make a loop with duct tape off of the opposite end to hang over a nail, and secure this to the stick with one wrap of tape around the stick end and the loop. Nothing ruins wet tool dip worse than falling in the dirt ... you can get this stuff at any good hardware store. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:17:57 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Closure A Howl of Greeting to All: If I may be permitted a moment to bring closure to this thread? Mik and Animal made some posts that I thought made good points on the larger picture and I joined in. As Tom M. noted: "Having known Mr. Denny for quite a while I feel I should point out his applications and studies in the FMA have always been his personal soapbox for manifesting his political and personal beliefs. So his latest posts are in fact FMA related , you just have to know Marc to appreciate it." Close, but not quite-- its just that I feel that, for me, one's life and one's art are indivisible (with liberty and justice for all :-) ). I know I was drifting fairly far afield, hence my comment in my original post asking Ray to allow the thread to get going. At least some people found the thread interesting--Animal, Mik, myself I liked Rick Lindquist's thoughtful post especially. No doubt some didn't. I for one, scrolled by the discussion of whether to put tape on plastic sticks-- although no doubt its participants were into it. Although at my age I should know better, I confess to being flabbergasted that anyone, especially Tom, should have understood what I was doing to be an effort to impose my will on anyone ("that by trying to establish a credo of sorts for the Eskrima digest that Marc may be creating exactly the monster that he is trying to kill") As already stated, it was an effort to converse in a friendly way, respectful to all persons, in order to develop our ability to clearly articulate something which many of us believe-- that there is a right to self-defense and that often the government acts in ways inimical to that right. This Digest shared an effort to articulate the error of the state of New Jersey legislature in seeking to regulate the teaching of martial arts-- what on earth is the difference with sharing an effort to develop our articulation of the right of self-defense and a theory of where force does and doesn't belong in our society? I fail to see why this can't co-exist with conversations about dipping stick handles in rubber (I don't like the way it feels btw) Well, Ray has indulged this experiment and has exercised his judgement that its best to move on. Oh well, too bad. One last point: I took Jon Martinez's post to be rude, and understood his including his phone and address to mean "You're a jerk and here's my phone and address if you want to do something about it". Naturally this perception colored my response to his post. I am very glad to say that he has e-mailed me and explained that such was not his intention. Forward. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Ingo Bojak Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:44:21 +0100 (NFT) Subject: eskrima: No more politics... Just a quick word on this - the balance between individual rights and the interests of the community is always hard to establish. To the outsider (European) it looks as if US Americans enjoy doing it by the means of an eternal violent tug-of-war between the government/judicial system and the citizens. This is _not_ the only possible mode of operation for a society. Neither is political freedom and personal safety directly related to the right of the populace to be armed, in spite of the efforts of gun-loving (and toting?) Americans to prove it. I have experienced American society first-hand for a year and I have lived in a European country the rest of my life and in that time spent quite some time in other European countries as well. I would not put America in the number one spot concerning political freedom, properly working legal authorities and personal safety, in spite of the fact that, e.g., my guest family (extremly nice people, BTW) was armed enough to take out a small city. I would certainly protest against any narrow political statement of the ED community concerning citizen-government relationship or weapon laws, especially one which I recognize as a specifically US American one. In my personal opinion this forum is not the place to organize a political platform of any sorts, even if these topic are indeed somewhat related to Eskirma. But the best way to divide a gathering with common interests is to start a discussion on either politics or religion. I hope this will not happen here. Stick to the sticks! Ciao, Ingo - --- "If the Lord Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon creation, I should have recommended something simpler." (Alphonse X) ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 05:49:47 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Sundry A Howl etc: Richard Killick and I are sad to report that we will not be able to pull off the seminar in England at present. Sorry for the false alarm. As for grips on sticks, I'm not too wild about the tool dip. Although the traction is great, my experience is that the hand sweats and then I don't like the way it feels. YMMV. My preference for grips is to use a thin leather tennis grip. I had forgotten to mention Bill's seminar at the Inosanto Academy. The subject, the three sets of the PT seguidas, was one great interest to me and I picked up some interesting ideas, including a couple for stick chokes. Bill also is a crack up-- and its important not to take one's self too seriously. A Brazilian vale tudo fighter who was watching from the sideline later commented to me "dat guy, he seem pretty dangrus. What he doing? I never see dat before". Perhaps we will be losing Bill to Hawaii? Burt Richardson has already fallen to its charms and moved there-- and those cold winter nights of upstate NY can be pretty persuasive too. On the HGH: Certainly I have no qualifications in this area whatsoever, but as a guy whose been around the gym's of LA for some 16 years (I often train now at Gold's in Venice, which is probably the world capitol of the steroid and silicone cult) I've seen and heard a fair amount-- but done none. The rap I've heard is that it makes you bigger, but not proportionately stronger. It is said that the freaky women bodybuilders like it better than steroids-- which are a male hormone and detectable by current science. The claim running in the gyms now is that in the past, HGH was administered by shots which led to massive fluctuations in the level of the hormone in the body-- which is asserted to explain the cases of acromegaly (sp?), and it is now claimed that it can be taken orally which, it is asserted, makes for more moderate doses and far more even levels. It can be a seductive rap. There may be a proper quality of life/life extension use when one's natural levels get really low. But when you see people, men and women, with huge muscles, and rippling abs over bellies that protrude because the organs inside have grown, you gotta wonder about these people's sanity. Bodybuilders have always reminded me of some nature program that you see on toads or some other animal that puffs itself up to look more dangerous and frighten off its rivals or those that would eat it-- what scientist Jane Goodall (the one who lives with the wild chimpanzees) calls "the display". Look! I'm dangerous! Stay away! Its truly a strange cult-- people who devote their lives to picking up pieces of metal and putting them down, taking hormones and having contests of who has the best "display." Not for me. I'd rather do something logical-- like fight with sticks. Anyway, as Rocky in his inimitable eloquent way pointed out recently, it ain't how you look, its what you can do. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 06:50:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Tool Dip > I've used tool dip on rattan for handles (thought it was just ok) and have > used it on a whole fiberglass stick. Wasn't really worth the effort, IMHO. > It is pretty tough and held up alright. Even if it gets a tear, it > doesn't just run. It doesn't work on the entire stick. It just peels off, the middle and the business end, after slight use. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:02:59 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re- HGH Thanks to Tom, Jeff, Thom, and whoever else wrote info on HGH, now I see why so many of the body builders like it, its like a steroid, it seems. Well they can have it! I don't need to look like them anyways, I 'll just keep doing what I am doing, man it is amazing the chances some of these guys take just to look good! Jeff now I understand, why you went thru so many sticks, hitting poles and what not. Rocky Pasiwk Founder Cuentada DeMano Chief instructor Anciong's Traditional Balintawak Lincoln Park Mi. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:16:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: eskrima: Sundry > As for grips on sticks, I'm not too wild about the tool dip. Although > the traction is great, my experience is that the hand sweats and then I > don't like the way it feels. YMMV. My preference for grips is to use a > thin leather tennis grip. Well, I used to be a semi-pro tennis player and ..... (Sorry Jeff, had to get it in before you did. :) Actually, I did use to spend hours -every- day on the tennis court. Now this was in a high humidity area, not California, but a leather grip didn't seem to do well for those that sweat a lot (me). Now I can't say I've sweat that much during an Eskrima practice here in dry California, but the TD grip hasn't been a problem. But as you clearly indicated, YMMV. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:58:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: DB/PT History Part 2 (fwd) But can we teach an old dog new tricks? :) Eric, you're sending your e-mail to the wrong address. Ray - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: >From eskrima-owner Fri Mar 12 15:37:43 1999 Subject: DB/PT History Part 2 From: Eric Knaus To: "eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com" Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:15:05 -0700 Organization: Eric Knaus Sorry for the delay. =20 DB/PT History Part 2 Upon arriving to California I first went to Dan Inosanto's "Kali Academy", which he had with Richard Bustillo in Torrance. I was = expecting to encounter the Mecca of FMA in Southern California and hoped that = I could continue exploring the fighting path that I had started in NY. = Dan, of course, was The Man and all roads led to and through him. Even = as JKD people were criticizing him for training in the FMA, FMA people = were criticizing him for his choices with whom to train within FMA, = most certainly including one Leo Gaje. But Dan, as always, just = followed his own path. I enjoyed Dan's classes very much and liked the open = architecture of his thinking just as I had liked that quality in = Tom Bisio. I also found the school heavily "cliqued", and = everyone thought I was nuts when I brought up the notion of = fighting full bore with just fencing masks and light gloves. = There were frowns and looks of incredulity when I explained that = it wasn't that bad and after all isn't this what we were = ultimately training for? Needless to say, I did not get any = takers and in fact several of the senior students would make back handed comments = regarding the crudeness of PT and, ipso facto, me.=20 Fortunately, I found out that under my very nose at work = was a guy, Rod Kuratomi, who was at that time the top weapons practitioner = of his school in Japanese Karate as taught by Master Kubota (I dont't = think the spelling is right but he's the guy who for years = advertised in Black Belt showing him hitting the back of his hand with a hammer and his shins with a bat for tempering purposes - = now that's nuts!). Rod's specialties were the tonfas and the shinai and he = turned out the be at a similar point in his training as I was with mine - he = wanted to go forward but had no one to do it with. Now at the time, the = party line within the FMA Community was that the Japanese styles were too = stiff and lacked the flow that the more nimble FMA's were known for. I = remember hearing from several of my constituents, PT'ers included, that = the staff, bo stick or the samurai sword was "really easy to fight. Gee, = all you have to do is X block and hit the hands." And in the case of the = tonfas, all you had to do was keep them at long range and take pot shots, or = so it was believed. Conversely, according to Rod, the Japanese regarded = anything that was not Japanese as inferior and easy to defeat, plain and = simple.=20 But he, as I, could not find anyone within his own group who = could say that they had actually sparred/fought against a "foreign" weapon = outside of their tribe. =20 =20 Well, we started rediscovering territory for both our groups = with each evening of fights we had. We found that the tonfa's were limited = in range but could easily knock the wind out of you or break a rib, jaw or = anything it hit IF it could survive bridging the gap. He used a very = heavy set of tonfas (later I found out that they were of his own design and = not standard issue) and consequently I used a matching stick. For the most = part, the stick held serve due to it's offensive fire power - although the = reality is, you will get very few pot shots in - and some adroit = footwork. As a result of fighting this weapon I REALLY began to appreciate the = side stepping drills that Tuhon Leo and Tom had taught me. The shinai = and short staff, however, were a different story. Let me tell you, forget X-blocking for = anything other than a last ditch effort to give you just enough time to = get your ass out of the way of the next furious swing. I found myself cursing = everyone within PT, FMA, JKD - you name it - for their audacity to think = they could espouse the virtues - and supremacy - of the stick versus all = weapons without ever having done so themselves. It was a real eye = opener, one I recommend for anyone who wants to know the truth about their = stick and their grit.=20 The moral of that episode was to not take anyone else's word = for it but your own. It was clear to me that NO ONE in the various MA = circles I was in - P.T. included - had come much closer than lip service (with = the exception of Tom) when it came to knowing how to really deal with = this type of movement and force. I have fought several other weapons since = but the truth is , a long, sharp, pointed weapon in the hands of someone = with good formal training is tough to beat - especially when it's longer, = sharper and more pointed than the one you're using - no matter what magical = style you, your cohorts or instructor(s) may practice. Yes, the stick(s) = can do well against something like a shinai or longer weapon, but what = everyone was missing was that you had to go against it to understand what the = drills and the manongs who HAVE worked against it are trying to tell you.=20 =20 Even more than one's art, the willingness to put one's self to = the test is the defining moment of a martial artist who is really looking = for the core reason as to why he is there in the first place. Without = this willingness - curiosity if you will - there is no growth, no = evolution and like any organism, one's interest will run a short course and = then abandon the mission for a less resistant path.=20 =20 I used to bring Rod to the Kali Academy on the weekends and = fight to illustrate the point that you can't just take someone else's word = for it, our path is one of constant exploration. Although there were no = takers in those days (1981-82) , after a few sessions I had fewer = detractors and my reputation as a fighter, for good or bad, was starting to grow. = On the flip side, Rod was not able to return the favor (i.e. of going to his = dojo) I think because they were much more closed to outsiders than they are now = - - I think. Rod received the highest promotion he could get for = weapons at his school and eventually enrolled in the LA Police Department (he = spoke Japanese as a 2nd language and was recruited for their Asian = Community liaison program) where he is to this day.=20 But returning to the Kali Academy, it was there one night that = I met David Wink-- a student of Leo's who had done some sparring, and = Paul Vunak. Typically, it was crafty Leo who had gotten me there by = saying, "I'm doing late training with Danny and have someone there who = wants to fight you." Coincidentally, this involved my picking him up at = the airport. While there, David Wink arrived and we caravanned down = to the Kali Academy and there met Danny, who had Paul Vunak with him. = As we were about the same size , Leo paired up David and I first, but as I = was putting on my fencing mask Leo whispered in ear, "Go easy, its = his first fight" which was not what I had understood when Leo lured me into = being there. "Sure" I replied, and then began to hit David in the = head. =20 In a moment like this, you get a deep read on what someone is = made of and David was made of the right stuff. After those first three = hits to the head, he caught on real fast. Neither of us were wearing gloves, = and the sticks we used were closer to what is used today than what had = been used on the east coast. It was later determined that I broke his thumb = and my middle right knuckle is different to this day=FFFFFF97a great = fight. Tuhon Leo was pleased. After two or three rounds, we took a break. While I = was doing a Harlem Globetrotter thing in the corner with my stick, David went = over to Paul and asked him for a go. But Paul said he wasn't feeling = well and so David and I went on for several more vigorous rounds=FFFFFF97it was the = beginning of a great friendship. =20 David, Rod & I went through a period where we got together a = lot to fight. David learned what Jack London in "The Call of the Wild" = called the "law of the club and fang". He had started by believing what he = had been taught about defeating the shinai, but after getting cracked and = speared by it a couple of times, changed his mind, after all=FFFFFF97What do = you do when the facts prove you wrong? I change my mind=FFFFFF97and so did he! Leo had asked Danny to give me a key to the Kali Academy, = and David and I would often go there and have at it. I would date this as = the time when David and I became ostracized by east coast PT for going off = the deep end. I confess that this irked me a bit. At one point, Tom = Bisio came out and joined in the merriment, and was impressed with David's = level. This was around the time that Tom was beginning to explore other = things, including his healing. Speaking of healing, David and I, who = were fighting 3-4 times a week at this point, noticed that the more we fought, the quicker we healed. Interesting. End of Part 2, Part 3 by next week ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 07:59:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #108 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.