From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #130 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 31 March 1999 Vol 06 : Num 130 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Gyi eskrima: Re: Sai training eskrima: Macho ramblings eskrima: WHO IS CHALLANGING DAN INOSANTO? eskrima: On Top Dog's PT/DB History eskrima: Re: Sai eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 03:14:27 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Gyi <> MORE!!!!! - --Rafael-- ------------------------------ From: "David W. Fulton" Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 09:39:14 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Sai training Rob Weymouth wrote: >G'day everyone, > I'm really enjoying the directions the list is heading in at the >moment. Recently, a friend of mine bought himself a pair of sai and was >asking about how he would go about training with them. This got me to >thinking about the weapon and how to train with it in a FMA context. In >Eric's interesting post on the evolution of DB/PT he mentioned some >experience with the sai and this prompted me to write. I would like to hear >people's thoughts/feelings on issues such as: As for how to learn to use a sai, I'd think you'd either have to find someone who had trained in classical karate and then switched to FMA, or learn it in the classical manner and then do your own experimenting with incorporating it into an FMA curriculum. There is a specific way of "flipping" a sai that I guess is somewhat similar (in purpose, not method) to "twirling" a baston. By that, I mean that it allows you to manipulate the sai so as to bring it into play in the intended manner. It also adds power to certain techniques. Proficiency in "flipping" is essential to being able to apply the sai it's many dimensions. >- - what defines a sai? Is it purely a thrusting weapon, a blunt impact weapon >or a thrusting/slashing weapon depending on the sharpening of the central >prong. The sai as a throwing weapon? What is the effect of the lengths of >the side prongs? Grips? The sai is all of the above and more depending on the design of particular set you have and your knowledge. The sai commonly seen today are light weight & blunted (for training safety), but I've seen an old, heavy pair with very sharp points on the "central prong" and "side prongs", such that any of them could be used for stabbing & some slashing. A fairly common tactic seen in classical sai kata is the throwing of one sai (sometimes at the opponent's foot), followed by drawing a "hidden" third sai from the small of the back. Apparently, it was not unusual for an expert to carry two tucked into the front of his "belt" and one in back. It's also a grappling weapon...my former teacher could use the sai (singularly or as a pair) to apply various joint locks & throws. >- - What are the relative advantages in comparison to other weapons? What is >the appropriate range for use of a sai? How does one combat longer weapons? As far as it's relative advantages, I'd say it depends greatly upon the skill level of the practitioner. I'd classify it as a short range weapon, so for fighting longer weapons, I'd attempt to close. One tactic against a staff for example would be to block an incoming attack and catch the staff between the "central prong" & "side prong". Once you catch the staff, a strong twist will trap their weapon. You can use the other to strike one of your opponent's hands and go for the disarm. I've also seen, a pair of sai used in unison to catch & strip the staff. Against a sword, trap it (as above) with one sai, then strike the flat side of the sword with the other to break the sword (wouldn't be my first choice though). >- - How could it be used in conjunction with other weapons? Espada e Sai? Whip >and Sai? I'm not knowledgeable enough about FMA (or the sai) to say, but guess it would depend greatly upon your skill with the sai & the other weapons you already use. Also upon your creativity. I will say that certain classical tactics & techniques of the sai can only be done when used in pairs, so you'd loose these if you paired it with another weapon. >- - Finally, How does one train to be effective with this weapon? How does one >bring out the best in the weapon? Can one rely on the wonderful cross weapon >unity of the FMA's to stand one in good stead with the sai? (ie. can one >just use most of the drills and defences one uses with sticks/knives?). Any >ideas on particular defences or drills that take advantage of the sai's >properties? I think I covered as much of this as I can already, but I'll just add here that to take advantage of the sai's properties you need to learn the classical methods of manipulating it for attack & defense. The "flipping" is part of this (lots of repetitions). Find a source of the classical application of the sai (this will be difficult-I had several "classical" karate sensei, but only one knew this stuff), and learn the weapon. Then experiment with applying it within the FMA frame work. I think I've heard that there is a "sai" within the FMA already, so that maybe a better route to take. Good luck! Another weapon I'd like to experiment with in terms of incorporating it into FMA is the Kama (a pair of sickles). It think it would add a new twist to sinawali 8-) FWIW Dave dwf@computerpackages.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:38:22 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Macho ramblings Animal says: <> There isn't much I wouldn't do in the way of self preservation, but threatening to rape my opponent's girlfriend isn't among the tricks in my bag. Shame on you. Kirk Righter ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:44:58 +0000 Subject: eskrima: WHO IS CHALLANGING DAN INOSANTO? I would like to know who is challanging Guro Dan Inosanto, because I would like to invite you to come and challange me first. I am not one of Guro Dan's students, I have only trained with him occassionally at a seminar but I have spoken with him numereous times and examined his writings and teachings for many years. From the review of his material and converstaions I have had with him, it has always been my opinion that not only is Guro Dan one of the most skilled and knowledgable instructors in FMA but he imbodies one of the best most Christlike spirits I have ever seen in the Martial Arts. We need more people like Guro Dan in Martial Arts as he makes us think less of ourselves and more of what we should be doing for others. He has always been a positive influence on my development. It just really roasts my chestnuts to hear that some person is out there trying to gain a reputation by challanging him. So whoever you are come and fight me Allen J. Sachetti, anytime anywhere it does not have to be at the WKC tournament, but if you are so arrogant as to challange this kind, good man then come and fight me now and show me what you have, because nothing merits such disrespectful behavior. Guro Allen J. Sachetti ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:03:52 +0000 Subject: eskrima: On Top Dog's PT/DB History In reference to Eric Knaus's comments made recently I would like to say that I found them very poignent. As FMA practicioners we all may study different systems and always of course give respect to them but we should also not discount our own development and effort. For the systems we study themselves are the product of comparison, experimentation, modification and constant development. I particularly liked Top Dog's comments about grappling. It is true if you are not using an edged weapon the possiblity of grappling is a reality one must face. I remember during last years World Stick & Knife Fighting Championships how some people wrote that they did not like our fights because of the grappling, BUT WITH AN IMPACT WEAPON IT IS A REALITY. Not to mention that these same people who complained about the grappling when it caused them to loose their fights eagerly used against other opponets when they could grapple them to win their fights. I like how Top Dog put it: "Grappling is part of fighting. When Weapons are not bladed, grappling can happen". Not to make this post in anyway sound Grappling centric but rather just to make the point that grappling is part of the fight and you be trained in all aspects of your fight. This year at the WKC "World Kali Championships" on June 19th & 20th we will endeavor to offer the freest forum of expression to all FMA Practicioners with as little restrictions as possible. All impact weapon fights will be 3 minutes long and you can win by submission or it goes to a judges decision. The intermediate and Advanced Divisions will be using the lightest weight fencing mask available on the market today. Anyone interested in a Competitors packet just call 1-800-879-4574 or e-mail datu@erols.com. Divisions will be: Solo Baston, Doble Baston, Knife, Espada Y Daga, Long Stick, Halo-Halo and Dumpag. Weight Classes: Lt:100-149, Md:150-199, Hy:200-249, Sh:250 & above Experience Classes: Novice, Intermediate, Advanced ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:50:30 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Sai > In Eric's interesting post on the evolution of DB/PT he mentioned some > experience with the sai and this prompted me to write. I would like to hear people's thoughts/feelings on issues such as: Well I'll add to the din ..like to here more on Eric's fight vs. the Sai ..and the sickle for sure. ..or if there's footage could it be included in DB2? > Is it purely a thrusting weapon, a blunt impact weapon or a thrusting/slashing >weapon depending on the sharpening of the central prong. The sai as a throwing >weapon? What is the effect of the lengths of the side prongs? Grips? My background, particularily where the Sai is concerned, stems mostly from Okinawan Kobudo (but it's there in Silat too). That said it's a blunt impact and thrusting weapon. The side prongs are grips and for catching weapons and appendages (arm, leg etc. - more utilized in this way in Silat it seems). And yep it's a projectile weapon, Sensei Shimabukuro insisted we had three - one for backup in case we threw one. > How does one combat longer weapons? Well back to the Kobudo the Sai bunkai I was thought where against the bo or staff. > Can one rely on the wonderful cross weapon unity of the FMA's to stand one in >good stead with the sai? (ie. can one just use most of the drills and defences one > uses with sticks/knives?). Definitely sinawali, sumbrada (sp?) along with the kobudo thing make for interesting work. I enjoy it for a good forearm burn though I got to agree with Guru Besar Ingram ...it's an outdated weapon. Regards, Travis ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:18:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #130 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.