From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #137 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 5 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 137 In this issue: eskrima: Dr. Gyi and other stuff eskrima: Re: Kukris and blood eskrima: other stuff eskrima: introduction eskrima: Cacoy Canete seminar, 4/10/99 eskrima: Re.. Challenges to Gyi and Rocky eskrima: From line help request, again... eskrima: just a leetle bit eskrima: Re: "Martial Arts Are Not Just For Kickin Butt" eskrima: The Kundalini Equation eskrima: Re:kukris eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #135 eskrima: Re: Doubting Dave eskrima: Sumo eskrima: DBMA Seminar in England eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: paul martin Date: 5 Apr 99 08:02:57 PDT Subject: eskrima: Dr. Gyi and other stuff The Dr. Gyi that was mentioned in the last posting, is he the same Dr. Gy= i that came to Buffalo a while ago? If so, does anyone know when he will b= e back in Buffalo? I liked his training mentallity, even if he was biased against FMA as a military system of fighting. I liked what little I saw = of his art since I came in late. Also, ROCKY, are you coming back to Buffal= o soon as well? I had fun with your drills and the pressure point demo was= good. Would like to see more. On a different line of thought, has anyone ever heard of or on their own experimented with a Bolo/sword/knife and pistol drill based on FMA concep= ts for a CQB (Close quarter battle) environment? I know that guns can be a = taboo topic for a MA discussion group, so I want to make it clear that I am not= arguing the effectiveness of this or that! All I want to know is if ther= e are any FMAists who have combined any FMA concepts with pistolcraft to see ho= w they marry up - if at all. I use to love the old Pirate/Three Musketeer = type movies where they had a brace of pistols along side their Rapier and dagg= ers. = I remember a modern reality of this when I saw an interview video of Masa= ad Ayoob(Sp?) talking about his Folding knife on his belt right next to his pistol. = Hope this does not create any Rocky type backlashes >:-) Paul ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:29:16 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Kukris and blood Just a quick note regarding David Ecke's comments about Ghurkas presenting Kukris in formation. Probably the greatest Ghurka myth is that they must draw blood everytime they pull the kukri from it's scabbard. This is, and has always been a joke! They use the kukri all the time (building field fortifications, chopping firewood, clearing landing fields, even gardening!). Not to mention sharpening it. The kukri is a tool, nothing more to the average Ghurka. There is enough documentation supporting this, easily available at a bookstore or large public library. As for standing at attention with kukris drawn, there is a number of military history oriented photo books devoted to Ghurkas and other special units, and I have seen some pictures of them doing just that. Actually I own one book like that. I will dig it out and get the author's name. Cecil Burch ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:44:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: other stuff > I remember a modern reality of this when I saw an interview video of Masaad > Ayoob(Sp?) talking about his Folding knife on his belt right next to his > pistol. I've trained with Mas, Jim Cirillo, Louis Awerbuck, John Farnum, at Gunsite, Threat Mgmt Institute, etc. All stress the use of a good knife, but few (except Gunsite) teach knife usage. To date I haven't seen any gun y daga drills, but there may be some out there. For the most part you'd probably want both hands available to hold the piece, hit the target, and have better control over the weapon in a disarm situation. IMHO Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Bradley Ryan" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 09:52:43 PDT Subject: eskrima: introduction Hello List Members, My name is Bradley Ryan. I have been a martial artist for 27 years now, 13 years in FMA. I have been lurking here on the list now for about a week, and like what I see. I enjoy open discussions like the ones that I have seen. There seems to be a good number of knowledgeable people here. I am no "Master", would never claim to be one. Just a guy who loves the Arts. I check my ego at the door so it won't get in the way of my learning something good. So if I may bring up a topic, what are some opinions on the use of wood vs. rattan. Most of the systems I have trained in use rattan, but when I did Serrada we used very hard wood sticks. Also many of the instructors I know cherish thier kamagong (sp?) sticks. Any preferences or opinions? Peace, Bradley Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:02:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Cacoy Canete seminar, 4/10/99 Cacoy Canete will be teaching a Doce Pares / Eskrido seminar in San Jose, California on April 10, 1999. April 10 10AM to 5PM $50.00 Tiger Eye Claw Center 903 N. 8th St. San Jose, CA 95112 408-286-0400 For more information contact Master Ron Lew at the above phone or Rev. Rupert Bisquera at 408-719-8649. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:06:22 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re.. Challenges to Gyi and Rocky Since it looks like both Rocky and Dr. Gyi will be making seminar appearances in Buffalo durring the spring and summer you can always prebook to see them in person and discuss your points of view. *lol* I have yet to see either not entertain a conversation. Phil ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: From line help request, again... Sorry to ask again, but the latest volunteer to help me figure out the missing from line bug seems to have dropped off the edge of the earth. So, another plea for help. Looking for someone that knows sendmail, sendmail.cf, Majordomo, and PERL. Any takers??? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 10:30:03 -0700 Subject: eskrima: just a leetle bit Jemadar ... Jem Hadar ... yet another Asian culture ripped off by Star Trek (like samurai Klingons). * * * When my students get to feeling confused or overwhelmed (usually maxes out around the 3rd lesson) I just tell them "Good! I'm doing my job." If they don't get it, I point out that now they have something to think about. * * * Speaking of Snooky Sanchez (yeah, the video from Pedoy's tribute is killer. I think Snooky's segment was great) ... a couple of weeks ago a friend of mine was up in Wildcat Canyon near Richmond and saw a Filipino teaching whip to a student. Anyone have an idea who that might have been? Otherwise I'm going to have to lurk in the park (as opposed to what I do on the E-Digest) to find out. * * * Thanks, Eddie, for the plug on my chapter (no, the book title wasn't my idea. Neither was my chapter title; they wanted something that sounded "literary" and came up with ... "Filipino Fighting Arts"! The editors who did this project have moved on ... ) Special thanks to Marc Denny, Ron Harris and Tom Meadows for their feedback before I submitted this work. * * * "Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment." Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: "Martial Arts Are Not Just For Kickin Butt" > >From: "Eddie S. Lastra" <eslastra@jps.net> >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 04:09:05 -0700 >Subject: eskrima: "Martial Arts Are Not Just For Kickin Butt" > >Hello Everyone, > >I just wanted to share with the newsgroup that the above mentioned book = >contains a very well written chapter on the FMA's by list member Jeff = >"Stickman" Finder. >reading. Hey,what a coincidence. I happened to be browsing our local bookstore this past weeekend and decided to pick up the book as well. I only bothered to look inside because it mentioned a section on Eskrima on the back cover just as you had mentioned. I,too, was pleasantly surprised to find "Stickman" as the contributor of the Filipino section inside the book. It makes for some good reading. I highly recommend it, not just for the FMA content, but for the other stories, points of view and philosophies of different martial arts as well. Gerrard Torio Lema Scientific Kali Arnis (LESKAS) http://www.oz.net/~gat ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:31:21 -0400 Subject: eskrima: The Kundalini Equation This book had been mentioned on the digest in a martial arts fiction thread, and is currently out of print. I tracked down a used copy of it and am finshed reading it. Anybody want it? contact me off list - Thanks, Sean Sean_3_Maguire@sbphrd.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:40:30 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re:kukris << The normal command in the British Army for a General reviewing troops is "General salute, present arms" and it's done with a rifle. If Gurkha's do do a salute with a kukris then it presents a problem, that once drawn the kurkris must feel blood and each Gurkha after the salute would have to cut themselves. >> This also puzzled me since that is the common ettiquette generally written about drawing the kukris. However, <<>Likewise the implication that VCs are handed out whenever deserved-- I suspect in >the fog of war not all heroics (especially those by small brown "heathens") are fairly >noted by the paper handlers back at headquarters. - ----------- To consider that the Brithish (paricularly Slim) thought of the Gurkha as "small brown heathens" is riddiculous. As the commanding General he participated in the award of 5 V.C's for Gurkha valor during the campain and as I said before he had been a Gurkha officer along with many of the 14th Army's fighting Generals.>> The officer in charge may have great respect for his allies as General MacArthur did for the Filipinos during WW2- However, that is not usually shared by those in another culture who never saw them in the trenches and probably never met or cared to meet the "little brown brothers". The English people are not historically known for their pleasant treatment even of their neighbors, let alone in India and Africa. "brother", "devils" or "heathen" become interchangeable terms depending on whose agenda - not all individuals are as faithful to their allies after the fighting is done, especially those who only heard of their exploits from afar. I recall the past few months were full of discussion about written history versus oral- depending on whose culture you came from, those who give credence to written records must also investigate the author's agenda - --Rafael-- ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:47:32 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #135 In a message dated 4/4/99 11:45:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Ok, any more posts with Danny, Dan, Guro I, Remy, Christ, Rock, or > walking-on-water in them will be deleted from the next three issues of > the digest. Take it to private e-mail. > > Perhaps we should go back to talking about dog attacks... :) > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > Jeeeezzzzz!!! Just when we were stooping to the same levels as RMA ; ) However, being one of those bumbs, I found these exchanges somewhat refreshing. Not to say I agreed with the stuff but, rather, people expressed them selves in a more outspoken manner instead of the politically correct way we're use to. I am glad to see that there is some liberty of self expression before censorship and that the digest doesn't fall to the moderate extremes that keeps people from expressing themselves as Rocky has and those that had their response to what Rocky had thrown to us. Freedom of speech is such a beautiful thing we have and my hats goes off to Ray for his tolerance of our out spoken moments to get things out into public light. To me, this is communication at its best, whether we agree or disagree with the material presented. Mallen ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:51:13 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Doubting Dave A Howl etc: Doubting Dave replied to my posts: > To my knowledge their (sic) is no 10th Burma Gurkha Regiment it's called the 10th > Princess Mary's Gurkha Rifles. 10th Burma Gurkha regiment is like saying 6th > Tongan Royal Australian Regiment. After the war (1947) the 10th joined the > Brithish Army. > See: http://www.du.edu/~tomills/military/asia/ia1947.htm Wittiness aside, if I read correctly, this still leaves open the question of what was the case during the war. > > >On 27 July, Gen. William Slim, commander of the victorious British 14th > >Army, visited our area. > > Sort of gives me a frame of reference. General William Slim took charge of > the 14th Army on the 15th Oct 1943. Interesting he was a Gurkha officer for > over 20 years and speaks Nepalese. He had great respect for the Gurkha in > terms of their prowess on the battlefield. The parachute (or lack of one) > story discussed in a previous digest is one which he related often. > > >Likewise the implication that VCs are handed out whenever deserved-- I > suspect in >the fog of war not all heroics (especially those by small brown > "heathens") are fairly >noted by the paper handlers back at headquarters. > > To consider that the Brithish (paricularly Slim) thought of the Gurkha as > "small brown heathens" is riddiculous. As the commanding General he > participated in the award of 5 V.C's for Gurkha valor during the campain > and as I said before he had been a Gurkha officer along with many of the > 14th Army's fighting Generals. I readily agree that those British officers who commanded the Gurkhas had high regard for them-- this does not necessarily carry over to the paper pushers IMHO. Also, I would submit that on the whole the British, especially in that time and place, had racism to spare-- Kipling justified colonialism as "the white man's burden" after all. And I'm not pointing fingers here-- (hell, I know how much trouble I had typing the various names as I transcribed for the Digest) US forces were still segregated as the US went into the war. My larger point however, is that in the fog of war much happens that does not get recorded back at headquarters, and if it does, it often gets lost in the fog of bureaucratic record-keeping. > Below is a description of a Gurkha V.C. winner > , , , , , , > > See: The Register of the Victoria Cross > > >Later Jemadur Kharkabadahur Rai from B company was awarded a medal for his > >leadership and gallantry in recapturing Scraggy Hill. The men of the > 3/10th saluted >him" (More data for Doubting Dave) > > > What medal?? GC, DSC, DCM, DSM, MM > Where did the action take place e.g. Bishenpur, Chin Hills. Maybe it was a > major part of a battle e.g. Kohima, Imphal Imphal. As for which medal, the article didn't say. As stated the action was in recapturing Scraggy Hill. Not in the military archives? Exactly my point. > >We stood at attention with drawn kukris. > > The normal command in the British Army for a General reviewing troops is > "General salute, present arms" and it's done with a rifle. If Gurkha's do do > a salute with a kukris then it presents a problem, that once drawn the > kurkris (sic) must feel blood and each Gurkha after the salute would have to cut > themselves. No problem for them as their (sic) tough bastards I suppose it would > show how much they respected their reviewing officer. Well, Dave has sounded very confident so far in an area outside of any competence on my part, but on this I can speak. There is a picture on page 28 of issue 26 of Command Magazine, in which the second installment of Dr. Gyi's writings appear, of the 3/9 Gurkha Regiment standing for inspection sometime in 1944 with drawn kukris. I too have heard about what you say about drawing the kukri, but perhaps there is a distinction between drawing it for a salute/for inspection and drawing it for action which could explain. Regardless, there is the matter of the picture. There they are with kukris drawn. > In the long run I am skeptical but would also be the first to publically > apologise if someone could present me with solid facts (maybe in a private > post) which can be checked against Military Histories or Orders of Battle. I > am also sure the Brigade of Gurkha's in Britain would also be able to supply > information if I sent them an e-mail. That would be interesting. Dave, if you call 805-546-9596 you can back order the three issues of Command in question: # 16, 26, and 47. These articles have fotos, maps and OBs. Understand that in my taking the time and effort to transcribe excerpts from these writings was not with the purpose of meeting the standards of a historian. It was to share the Digest a sense of what jungle warfare can be like. Our FMA also come from jungle warfare, and IMHO there is relation between the Gurkha fighting arts and the FMA. I think I'm a nice guy for taking the time to do this, but if you want the details which I was too busy to spend the time typing, start by getting the back issues and take it from there. Please feel free to e-mail me. BTW, please note that Dr. Gyi does not make himself the great hero in recounting these stories. And note the progression in my excerpts: from killing lust, to sadness for all the death on both sides and building a shrine for the fallen. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:05:18 EDT Subject: eskrima: Sumo In a message dated 99-04-05 10:32:49 EDT, you write: << I just got done catching the end of a Sumo contest, believe or not I think I have watched a total of 10 minutes in my whole life. What exactly are the rules, I know you have to knock the other guy out of the ring, but what if you can't is there a time limit or points awarded, can you sweep or do take downs? Isn't that outfit painful ? what about strikes, it looks like these guys would be good lineman in the NFL. Rocky >> When I lived in Japan, I was an avid watcher of Sumo. They have a basho (tournament every other month, and each lasts 15 days, so that's a lot of sumo) A person loses if any part of his body touches the ground other than his feet, or if any part of his body touches outside the ring. There is no time limit, but I do remember a match that had the two locked up with no movement for a long time and they stopped it, gave each a rest, and then put them back in exactly the same position as they had been in, and started the match back up. They were very precise and had a number of people involved to make sure they were just as they were when they gave them a break. You are allowed open hand strikes, and one common technique is to charge the opponent with open hand slaps/pushes to the chest and face to drive the person back. There are also a number of trips and thows that are allowed. They don't award points, you either win or lose. They do have judges at the 4 corners. Where these guys make their money is when both people go down or out at the same time. The one who hits the ground first loses, and sometimes it's only a second difference from when they hit. As for the uniform, I've never worn them. Hope this helps, it's been a few years since I lived in Japan, and I don't watch much anymore. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:09:10 -0700 Subject: eskrima: DBMA Seminar in England A Howl of Greeting to All: I am delighted to report that I will be giving a seminar in England after all. Richard Killick has passed the ball to Krishna Godhania, and Krishna will be hosting me in Birmingham on March 29-30. For Further details contact Krishna at 01926-490394 or e-mail him at KGodhania@aol.com From there I will be flying to Cartagena, Spain and doing a seminar for Acosta Gil on June 5-6, for Dog Nick Sacoulas in NYC on June 12-13 and for Hilton Yam in Florida on June 19-20. Woof, Guro Crafty ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #137 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.