From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 10 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 147 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Sarongs eskrima: Re: Bayonet training in military eskrima: Re: Pekiti-Tirsia in Europe (FMA-Digest V6 #145) eskrima: re The Combat Continum eskrima: SCARS eskrima: Security at Casa Denny eskrima: Re: Sarong Re: eskrima: Security at Casa Denny eskrima: Re: Illustrisimo tapes, etc. eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Sarongs Devin wrote: << Does anybody have any information on Traditional Sarongs? I've seen demonstrations of their use and such, but I'm curious as to their design. I understand that they are little more then large cylinders of fabric, but are their dimensions purely arbitrary, determined by local style, or just the result of how much fabric was on hand? >> I don't know for sure. Most of the sarongs that I've seen (and the one I own) are a plaid pattern. However, I've seen some other sarongs (I think they're more formal) that are different patterns, some with metallic threads. Also, there's another style that's a long strip of cloth instead of a tube. << Just curious. I've seen them on typically american sized individuals, and worn about the waist, they appear to hang from mid waist to just below the knees. The other night, Animal Planet did a show on Komodo Dragons, and the locals' sarongs appeared much larger (Due to height differences between malaysians and Americans?). Additionally, theirs were plaid. Any significance to this (no scottish jokes please)? >> All the sarongs I've seen are long. However, for martial arts practice, they get doubled over into the length you've seen Americans wearing them. Mike === Mike Casto Assistant Instructor Asian Fighting Arts Filipino Kali/ 5099 Springboro Pike Indonesian Pentjak Silat Dayton, OH 45439 Phone: (937) 293-5520 URL: http://www.guild-hall.com/afa/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Bayonet training in military Butch wrote: << I do not think that our soldiers practice with bayonets now days like our fathers did in the army. >> I'm not in the military so this is second hand knowledge, but a classmate of mine is in the Army Infantry (he's a recruiter now). I don't know how much bayonet training he had, but I know he had some. Mike === Mike Casto Assistant Instructor Asian Fighting Arts Filipino Kali/ 5099 Springboro Pike Indonesian Pentjak Silat Dayton, OH 45439 Phone: (937) 293-5520 URL: http://www.guild-hall.com/afa/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Kali-Silat@t-online.de (Uli Weidle) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:13:53 +0200 Subject: eskrima: Re: Pekiti-Tirsia in Europe (FMA-Digest V6 #145) Dear FMA-Readers, Dear Andrea Dean! In the FMA-Digest Andrea Dean asked about possibilities to train Pekiti-Tirsia Kali in Europe. You can get information (including instructors list) at the Pekiti-Tirsia Europe Web-Site: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.net Please notice that: !! Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje, Jr. will be in Europe in May 1999 !! There'll be a three days training in Germany (Pekiti-Tirsia Europe HQ in Reutlingen and inside Kelley-Barracks, US-Army Facility in Stuttgart) at May 22 - 24. Please contact Uli Weidle at: Kali@gmx.de Members of US Forces might want to contact Tim Kashinoo (kashieaa@hotmail.com) From May 29-30 Grand Tuhon Leo T. Gaje will conduct a Pekiti-Tirsia Seminar in Stockholm, Sweden. This years Pekiti-Tirsia Kali Intensive Grand Tuhon Trainingscamp will be in Sweden (Stockholm Area) after the Weekend Seminar. For details, please contact Michael Marlow at: Sweden - 0708 - 911 522 or Email him at: ngs4@algonet.se Also any request can be send to: Pekiti-Tirsia Europe Zaisentalstr. 71 D-72760 Reutlingen Germany, Europe phone: +49-7121-300931 Fax: +49-7121-371124 Email: Kali@gmx.de http://www.pekiti-tirsia.net Regards from Germany, Uli Weidle, Mandatus 1st Hagdan Pekiti-Tirsia Kali Managing Director Pekiti-Tirsia Europe ------------------------------ From: "JYCHOW.AU.ORACLE.COM" Date: 10 Apr 99 15:40:33 +1000 Subject: eskrima: re The Combat Continum >I do assume that by your reference to Special Forces you >meant the Army's Special Forces, not some other unit. > Any of such crack units, as they are what are sent in to kill......... It does not matter whether they are of the army, police or in some countries, the para militias. I would be repehensible (is there such a word?) if whatever I taught, and whoever I taught, goes out and kill someone. Purely self defence is okay. = Even with defence, there is always a way out from killing. Great master Cheng Man Ching never killed. Even tose determined to challenge him somehow got talked out of fighting with him by either verbal persuasion, verbal exchange, or a mere demonstration. A real gentleman. The great Kano, founder of Judo, was a similar gentle giant who had mastered Jujitsu and can put down all comers gently. You may be very good in what you do. You may be very confident and comfortable in your idea to engage in joining killing operations. You may feel you are doing the right thing helping the world get rid of scum bags ( the other party may also feel the very same too, by the way). You may be able to sleep easy and die peacefully too. But.... that is you.= You are a great giant in your own right. I am only a tiny fry, qivering in the small breeze. That is me. I was speaking for myself. As I said, each to his own. I am so weak that I can not stand the thought of killing someone. It is my weakness. I am glad you have such strength and power. More power to you then! >how you determined that these military individuals are not to be trusted >with the knowledge that you have. > I was not saying this in a proud way. Neither did I say those words that you quoted "not to be trusted with the knowledge that you have". My art is very ordinary, and I don't know much about martial arts so I dare = not assume that I can not trust such highly trained and respectable citizens that you so admire. The truth of the situation is, and I must repeat and stress, that I dare not teach to any individual who I think may have some oppotunity to take life or harm another. I fear the repercussions. I am not a spiritual man, but I feel that there could be undesirable consequences. The head of my style, Tatang Illustrisimo killed many in his life, both eskrimadors, commoners (ie. back alley loiters and bar goers), and soldiers. Do I hate him? No, I love and respect him. But I also sometimes am so concerned about his afterlife since I am also his student. He was arrested = 17 times in Manila for 'uhhmmm...... incidences' but got out of jail each time because he proved it was in self defence (which I do not 100% believe, = that old rascal!!!). I hope Tatang is okay. >You don't trust them to be self defense >types, do you trust these individuals with the defense of your country? > Truthfully speaking, I do not think they are the self defence types. Not from what I heard. But then, I may be wrong. They may be the most wonderful peace loving people with a heart of gold who would never harm anybody. It is a matter of perception and opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I unfortunately am not educated in such issues, so I may be wrong. But I sense I may have a fundamental disagreement with you here. = My apologies. > All special operations people within the military undergo various long and >rigorous training that tends to weed out those individuals (most anyways, no >selection program is perfect) that cannot hack it, are immature or don't show >the intelligence and judgment skills required of special operations people. >The members all possess at the minimum a secret security clearance and >background investigations to check their criminal and civil records. > That is fantastic. But do all those necessarily make them non killers? Do they never itch to go into operation? When they go into operation, don't they kill on orders? We still strike the word 'kill' here. How far does this 'discipline and stability' take them? Your critirai for discipline and stability may mean they can endure running for 100km non stop, take horrific abuse from their sergents, go without food for days, endure hard physical suffering, ....etc. Are you sure this is not a training of toughness rather than discipline and stability? And maturity? ....etc. I have heard of some stories, like ....hhmmm... chap threatened a girl whose boyfriend has a friend in the SF. One night, the chap got woken up in the middle of the night by 'friendly' people from the SF who had climbed = in the house through the roof. They were so efficient and highly trained (as you suggested) that they quickly dissappear where they came from. I am sure you know what I mean as you must have heard of such stories since you are so keen on them. Incidentally, I was with a friend a few hours ago, and he was talking about = the SF - what synchronity! He really admires their meaness and efficient ability to main and kill, and 'funny stories', as he had trained with them in diving operations. Lets face it, any disciplined personel can crack up. And there is always the temptation to use the skills on extra curricular activities. And the nature of the professional job is to control situations by killing, subverting, etc. Maybe you can stand it because you are a great guy. I can not, hence my opinion. I would rather use martial arts to build strong healthy robust citizens who will be an asset to a community that loves peace and order. Of course, strong people may say I produce weaklings who are unworthy. They may be right, maybe.............. another opinion. Oh by the way, Tarvis:- >No disrespect but I suspect you've never tasted real violence. >Well, hopefully it's not in your "karma." Hopefully not!!! I had many 'successful plays' but they are for mutual enjoyment, learning and satisfaction. Still friends at the end. Every encounter is an oppotunity for learning and friendship. It builds true character and stability, maybe? Cheers! John Chow ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:49:33 EDT Subject: eskrima: SCARS Interesting thread, especially since just last week Animal and I were discussing Peterson and SCARS. I went and checked out the recent edition of BlackBelt because there's an article on Loren Christensen in it. Loren is a fellow Paladin author who I agree with on many self-defense issues. Anyway, in that same issue, there is an article on Petersen and SCARS. What blows my mind is the money the guy is demanding, AND making. I have only seen the first videos he put out, the "Hostile Control Systems." It has been a while since I watched them, but it seemed to be a lot of real basic strikes and a kick or two thrown in combinations. The pilosophy of hit, hit, hit, hit, stomp when he goes down. He uses offense as the defense. Hit first, and keep hitting. One of the problems I have with his training is that the training partner is supposed to react in a certain way when struck with certain blows. This way you go through his series of strikes with your partner reeling back, or doubling over as you hit him. This is suppose to be based on cutting edge research of how a person reacts when struck. He calls this autonomics. The problem I have is WHAT IF you hit a person for real and he doesn't reel back like you have been taught he would? If there is anything certain about a fight it is that there is nothing certain. As for his system being undefeatable? The best? Might sound good to someone reading the ads. Right up there with the mail order become a ninja ads. I think videos can be valuable learning tools, I have one coming out soon myself, but to say that you will become undefeatable from studying with a video? I think that BB article said people pay five grand or so to go take his short course in TX. How he demands that and gets it is beyond me. If he has nothing else, it is good business sense and marketing. But hey, different strokes for different folks like they say. I have not met or trained with the man, would like to hear from someone who has. I have not seen any of his new videos either, just those first Hostile Control Systems videos. Just my two cents. Yours in Training, Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:01:04 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Security at Casa Denny A Howl etc: For the benefit of those who do not commit everything to memory, Rocky wrote: Try sneaking into my house and the dog will have your testicles for a snack. :-) He ain't just good looking. Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Dave Huang" Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:45:16 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Sarong RE: Sarongs "From: Devin Does anybody have any information on Traditional Sarongs?" One source of information would be Pak Herman Suwanda, Guru Besar, MAnde Muda Pencak Silat. www.mandemuda.com. Sarong is part of his curriculum (at least it was a few years ago)and Pak has a video on it. " I've seen demonstrations of their use and such, but I'm curious as to their design. I understand that they are little more then large cylinders of fabric, but are their dimensions purely arbitrary, determined by local style, or just the result of how much fabric was on hand?" Don't know about that, but, your description is largely correct. It's like a large square piece of cloth sewn together at one end. "I've seen them on typically american sized individuals, and worn about the waist, they appear to hang from mid waist to just below the knees. The other night, Animal Planet did a show on Komodo Dragons, and the locals' sarongs appeared much larger (Due to height differences between malaysians and Americans?). Additionally, theirs were plaid. Any significance to this (no scottish jokes please)?" Pak has shown several different ways to wear the sarong around the waist and 2 different ways over the shoulder (that I remember). I thought he said that the different regions wore it differently, and that men and women wore them differently. Perhaps someone else could shed light on this? As far as the plaid, I believe that's just style of the cloth. Also, sarongs, are sometimes worn with an ikat (like a large triangular piece of cloth). One ikat was worn around the waist tied like a belt. One ikat was worn around the head with a large triangular piececovering the back of the neck (protection from the sun). Hope that helps. Dave _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Security at Casa Denny > For the benefit of those who do not commit everything to memory, Rocky > wrote: > slip your dog a micky, (sic) and shave him bald on one side!!, Scratch > that, your dog's to (sic) cool looking, I'll shave you half bald:-)!> > > Try sneaking into my house and the dog will have your testicles for a > snack. :-) He ain't just good looking. Another type of ROCKY mountain oysters??? :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: John Frankl Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:45:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Illustrisimo tapes, etc. Some possible explanations without getting offended/upset over perceived lack of respect: (1) Tony Diego and Topher Rickets were not particularly interested in showing the best they had to offer on this particular tape. When I trained rather briefly with Tatang and Tony I was told Tatang was "tricked" into making those videos, and the general mood of the whole Illustrisimo group was very anti-video. (2) Kali illustrisimo, being a fighting art, does not look impressive to those used to seeing people whipping around pencil-thin rattan and aluminum blades. Just some possibilities, John ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 18:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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