From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #148 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 11 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 148 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Illustrismo eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 eskrima: Re: Illustrisimo tapes, etc. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 eskrima: Richards war stories eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 eskrima: SPAM re-re-post eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 03:12:16 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Illustrismo << (2) Kali illustrisimo, being a fighting art, does not look impressive to those used to seeing people whipping around pencil-thin rattan and aluminum blades. >> Why not? I remember some short documentary on FMA about nine years ago- I don't recall off hand what the title was but anyway, (Tatang) Illustrisimo was doing a small demo for the interviewer and even though you can tell he was an old man- the techniques he was showing were VERY impressive. His left hand did some heavy duty checking as he worked a blade against the 'attacker' and he was circling to the outside. You can still see how much control he had as it was a live blade and he was talking at the same time. I was really most impressed at how his checking hand stuck so close to the enemy- giving the limbs no "breathing" space; the blade was there always indicating some wound was being inflicted . ALOT was going on and he looked pretty effortless doing it. One can be used to seeing the above rattan and aluminum blades whipped around but I feel ANY dedicated student of FMA can still recognize a master of the blade; I mean this is still the Eskrima Digest not some martial arts film forum. Give the folks here some credit. best, - --Rafael-- ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 07:30:50 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 > I would be repehensible (is there such a word?) if whatever I taught, and > whoever I taught, goes out and kill someone. Purely self defence is okay. > Even with defence, there is always a way out from killing. > Truthfully speaking, I do not think they are the self defence types. > Not from what I heard. But then, I may be wrong. They may be the most > wonderful peace loving people with a heart of gold who would never harm > anybody. It is a matter of perception and opinion. You have yours, > I have mine. Before my instructor and I decided to teach an edged and pointed weapons course at his shcool, we had a long debate on the morality of teaching this kind of course. Should we or should we not? Teaching people to effectively use edged and pointed weapons based on FMA systems is not to be taken lightly. Face it, FMA blade arts are effective. Here is the problem. Human nature is what it is. People can be good and bad depending on many things. How can you determine if a person is worthy of your training or not? You cannot most of the time! How can you guess what a person will do and why he will do it. Psychologists and Criminologists have not figured that out yet. The only thing you can do (as we do) is to get to know your potential students over time, if possible, to see if they are of sound character. Most upper MA belts have proven their worthiness to be trained in lethal weapontry. Also, they have been with your school for awhile and you have determined that they will not use it in criminal activities etc... Also, in a democractic society with a free market, the martial arts are up for sale. Plop your money down and a school will teach you. I do not think that most commercial MA schools do a background check on their students. So you can get anybody in your classes, good guys, bad guys, sane people and psychos. It is the way it is. How do you know who is who? It is much like who do we sell guns to? How do we restrict gun ownership to law abiding citizens and out of the hands of criminals? Who do we sell MA instruction/books/videos to describing lethal MA techniques? Should be ban Dan Inosanto's books for teaching people how to hit with sticks etc... Same thing! Look at Paladin Press and its problems etc... As far a Special Operations Personnel go, I have met many in my time and like any group, they have good people and bad people - they both receive the same training. However, most of them I have met were very professional and low profile guys. Cowboys in their profession are looked down upon as being dangerous to mission survival. I have only known a couple who may be out on the fringe - very few of them. If most Spec Ops personnel were crazy, then we probably would have to worry about them roaming about our country causing some problems especially if they think that they have been wronged by our government somehow etc... Morality among people cannot be controlled but only have faith in. Can we have faith? Can we trust it? What do we do? Would any of you FMAers publish a book of your techniques knowing that a criminal would read it and hurt your neighbor. On the other hand, would you still publish it knowing that some decent person will use it to save the lives of his/her family? Any comments from know authors of such books? "In a free society, you will always have 10% deviancy. Comes with the territory" Butch ------------------------------ From: Talio Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:13:58 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Illustrisimo tapes, etc. > From: John Frankl > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:45:14 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: eskrima: Re: Illustrisimo tapes, etc. > > Some possible explanations without getting offended/upset over perceived > lack of respect: (1) Tony Diego and Topher Rickets were not particularly > interested in showing the best they had to offer on this particular tape. > When I trained rather briefly with Tatang and Tony I was told Tatang was > "tricked" into making those videos, and the general mood of the whole > Illustrisimo group was very anti-video. Woe, hold on John. I was a part owner in the original company that did the videos with Tatang. Mandirigma productions was developed to produce quality videos on the Filipino martial arts grand masters. When we shot those videos Tatang and the whole Ilustrisimo group where behind the project. In fact they pulled many of the strings to get grand master Lema to do a video with our company. What happened was this my former partner saw the money potential of these videos when they were released. In fact they were reviewed by Brian Wilkes and he felt they were the going to be very successful.. With that in mind my former partner then started his own video company under another name. Then he went about spreading false rumors about me in his newsletters and any other way he could. I have the raw footage of these tapes and the main players of Kali Ilustrisimo where present and none ever voiced any negative opinion about the videos. Please do not spread rumors. Tatang was never tricked into doing the videos. As a matter of fact I have a large amount of home footage of Tony, Chris, and Tatang teaching and working out the techniques look exactly like what is on the videos that we did. These videos where shot through out the years by the Ilustrisimo group for their own personal use years before we ever shot the commercial videos. They were given to me when I became an instructor in Kali Ilustrisimo and include some very heavy details of the system. Stuff demonstrated on the commercial videos but not broken into detail. > (2) Kali illustrisimo, being a > fighting art, does not look impressive to those used to seeing people > whipping around pencil-thin rattan and aluminum blades. > Could not agree with you more John. - -- Salam Hormat, Roberto Torres Talio Self Defense Academy Pencak Silat Perisai Setia (Harimau Sikap Baru) "Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another." Proverbs 27:17 "Sebagaimana baja mengasah baja, begitu pula manusia belajar dari sesamanya." Amsal 27:17 ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:48:10 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 In a message dated 4/10/99 7:32:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Hopefully not!!! I had many 'successful plays' but they are for mutual enjoyment, learning and satisfaction. Still friends at the end. Every encounter is an oppotunity for learning and friendship. It builds true character and stability, maybe? >> Right On! But I had a bad experience where I was left beat down and for dead and survived but for the grace of god. Truth to tell I have some "baggage" from this experience. I recounted this experience sometime back on the digest if an effort to get it off my chest but I still have moments of discomfort from it. More personal than I care to discuss with a stranger but there you have it. Hope you can understand. Peace, Travis ------------------------------ From: "Richard Killick" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:55:23 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Richards war stories All this talk of Gurkhas, reminds me about a guy I worked with in 1982 just before I joined the Army. He had been behind the Jap lines with the chindits and had also served in Korea. When he found out that I was going to join up, he gave me lots of useful tips like how to tie my boot laces a certain way, to eat and sleep when ever I could ( he told me that you can get away with only two hours of sleep per night). His last words to me were good hunting and never be taken alive I.E. p.o.w. Even in 82 he would still not talk to Japanese people and he sent part of his pay to a fund that looks after retired Gurkhas. There are lots of stories about the Gurkhas in the Brit army like: "Gurkhas are no good when it gets cold" I spent the night out on the black hills in Wales in minus twenty and the Gurkha in my trench had no problems. "Gurkhas can carry heavy burdens long distances and travel across hilly ground quickly". True, which is a real pain when you the one at the back trying to keep up. "If the kukris is drawn, the blade has to see blood". The Gurkha told me that's a story they spread around to stop di#kheads like me from asking to borrow it to chop some wood. Which brings up a point, if you are in the middle of the jungle and you have to cut yourself every time you get out your knife, you get some jungle rot infection and die. "Gurkhas can fight" True, a friend of mine queuing to go to the toilet, at a mess party we were both at took a pee in a pot plant rather than wait. It splashed too near to a group of Gurkhas and they did a number on him. I thought it was fair and continued to try to chat up the bar maid as they (very efficiently) beat him up. Richard Killick G.S.M. and oak leaf cluster. P.S I went to the chindits guys house once he introduced me to woods navy rum in my coffee first thing in the morning, a habit not to be recommend and probably the reason way I can not remember his name or much of that summer. Any way on the wall next to a row of medals was a kukris and some rather nice line drawings of Gurkhas in battle, charging trenches etc and two thirds of a samurai sword!!!. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:02:33 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #147 In a message dated 99-04-10 21:57:35 EDT, you write: << Another type of ROCKY mountain oysters??? :) >> Ray, You've been in Colorado too long. It's rubbing off on you. Run! ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: SPAM re-re-post (a repost) Are few people have mentioned that their posts to the list are getting bounced back with a 'user unknown'. - -IF- you notice a 'relays.orbs.org' mentioned in the bounced back e-mail header then your e-mail is being bounced back because of the following... (from my limited understanding of this stuff) Check out the site http://www.orbs.org It is an attempt to filter out SPAM. There are sites that allow anyone and everyone to route e-mail through their site. I believe this is called open routing and it is a bad thing, bad in the sense that anyone (i.e. a SPAMmer) can send out worthless e-mail. Sites that allow open routing get listed in the database maintained by www.orbs.org, many sites check incoming e-mail against that database, if it comes from a site listed in the database it is rejected. When it is rejected back to your site, your mail system lists it as 'user unknown' and sends the email back to you. This does not mean that YOUR site is a site that permits spam. It means that your site is routing through a site that permits spam, perhaps w/o their knowledge. So, if you submit a post to the list and it is bounced back with a 'user unknown' look for a line in the header mentioning relay.orbs.org. If you see relay.orbs.org tell your postmaster (postmaster@your.domainname) to check out www.orbs.org and to please route through a site that does not permit open routing. It will up to you to have your site correct the problem. Do what you can to help wipe out SPAM. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #148 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.