From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #151 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 13 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 151 In this issue: Re: eskrima: Re: Khalid Khan? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #150 eskrima: Re:Illustrisimo tapes...... eskrima: Multiple knife carry n stuff eskrima: Re: Khalid Khan? eskrima: GM Presas Changed my life too. eskrima: reporting the action eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #150 eskrima: Questions on this and that eskrima: Khalid Khan eskrima: Re: Teaching Special Forces eskrima: Re: Ilustrisimo tapes, etc. eskrima: Re: Khalid Khan eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Khalid Khan? > > I am currently learning Serrada in the Inayan Eskrima > > System and the material that Khalid shows on his > > video is pretty much the same materal that I am being > > taught. > > Ray, would you concur with this assessment? That this is substantially > the same as Inayan Eskrima? ahhhhh,,, no. Not even close... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: tony pfeiffer Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:50:52 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #150 about stick carry Stickman's shakuhachi flute can't be beat after all, it's only a musical instrument ------------------------------ From: Talio Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:03:58 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re:Illustrisimo tapes...... > From: "JYCHOW.AU.ORACLE.COM" > Date: 12 Apr 99 15:07:57 +1000 > Subject: eskrima: re Illustrisimo tapes...... > > Hi folks, > > Hope we don't get into a deep squable here. Things are getting out of hand.= > > > I think it is general concensus that Tatang, Tony and Chris Ricketts are > skilled FMA'ists to be reckoned with. We also have somebody who thought > that > the tapes were not really that impressive (hopefully that is what I read > into > the email, and there is nothing degoratory about the skills of the persons).= > > > Having learnt under those very persons both before and after the tapes were = > > made public production, I do admit that the tapes were made to a specific > introductory purpose to a general public. Yes, the techniques are there, > but, not the exact way they would have been normally performed. At least > not the way I perceived it. I can appreciate the critique's point of view > and I accept your critique. Nevertheless, the tapes are valuable for any > enquirer who wishes to be introduced to the style. > Great assessment John. The idea was to introduce the system to the public and try to get Tony here to do a seminar tour. Unfortunately that never came about. If any one gets to go to the Philippines and has the chance to train with Tony Diego, please do not pass it up. The man is a true master of his art. - -- Salam Hormat, Roberto Torres Talio Self Defense Academy Pencak Silat Perisai Setia (Harimau Sikap Baru) "Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another." Proverbs 27:17 "Sebagaimana baja mengasah baja, begitu pula manusia belajar dari sesamanya." Amsal 27:17 ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:05:48 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Multiple knife carry n stuff Mr. Stickman wrote: >The boot knife it to remind yourself to clean the toenail >fungus, the antique straight edged razor is for shaving . Oh, yes, and the OSS Crotch knife is strapped to my nuts just to them toasty warm... :) >Get your cover story down and practice, practice, practice. This rings true...anybody who carries backup weapons (or backup weapons to backup weapons) should practice going to the backup(s) A LOT to minimise the possibility of fumbling... Joey Gil wrote: >I think one of the most real looking fight scenes I've seen on the movies >would be in Grose Point Blank between Benny and John Cusack. I heard about this...I hear there is a great "pen is as mighty as the sword" scene... and >I also liked the Filipino knife work in Under Seige... of course it looked >even better before I knew anything about knife fighting. Who choreographed this sequence again? tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com /*Gotta go practice my TAEbo now....hehehe*/ ------------------------------ From: szorn@webtv.net (STEVE ZORN) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:06:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Khalid Khan? >>*All* 3 of the counters? Hmm Okay What, is it something I said? For the record in Serrada there are 3 "basic" counters taught for each of the 12 attacking angles. This 3 eventually leads to an infinite number of counters. Are you not familiar with Serrada??? >>Ray, would you concur with this assessment? That this is substantially the same as Inayan Eskrima? What, is is something I said again?? Do you think that just because I am a novice in FMA that I don't know what I am saying? For the record, Mike Inay studied under Grandmaster Cabales in Serrada and even though from what I understand Mike made some minor alterations, would it not still be considered "Serrada"???? Steve ------------------------------ From: "Tim Kashino" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:59:28 -0800 Subject: eskrima: GM Presas Changed my life too. > >From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\"" >Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:56:21 -0400 >Subject: eskrima: GM Presas Changed My Life (A snip in the interset of bevity) >Then I attend this show at Madison Square Garden and Aaron Banks announces >something like "A demonstration of Modern Arnis by Grandmaster Remy Presas >from the Philippines". Arnis? "What is Arnis" I said to myself. Then I saw >a demonstration by a man wearing a red gi that changed my life forever. >Fast, furious, a magnificent percussion of sticks. It would be another 3 >years before I would be able to learn Arnis. Since then I have studied 3 >systems (Modern Arnis, Pekiti-Tersia, Garimot) and my best friend (Jun) is >a Filipino. My martial arts changed, my life changed I will always >remain forever grateful to GM Presas for being the catalyst. > > Respectfully, > Al Sardinas > Student of Garimot System of Arnis Hi everyone, I couldn't agree more about GM (Remy) Presas being an enriching influence on peoples lives. He has inspired many people in such a way. I was studying Okinawan Karate when I first met the Professor in 1986, and from that point on I wanted more FMA training. Professor not only inspired me to seek out more about the FMA, I have sought out more about the culture and just plain "living" as well. I have had some truely enriching experiences through the years since then. The systems that I have trainined in (PTK, Lameco, Balintawak) have not only honed my skills, but the great experiences I have had with the people associated with the FMA has had great impact on my life. Modern Arnis was a good place to start the journey for me. I never imagined that I would have met so many people and done so much thirteen years ago. Tim Kashino Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:03:33 -0700 Subject: eskrima: reporting the action >Good reporting Stickman! A couple of questions, please: > >1. Had you grabbed one of your sticks on the way out, and encountered a >fight/robbery/whatever in progress, would it be legal to use it to come >to the aid of the victim? > >2. In this case, which weapon would you have chosen? #1: Probably not legal. As I wrote a long time ago, I once caught three gangbangers opening Xmas mail from boxes on my street. They jumped in a car and split, I called the cops. The LEO who showed up told me if I had used the stick I was carrying (I'd been working out in my back yard) I'd have gone to jail. Let's see - three against one, they are committing a felon, and they are on my private property, and I'd go to jail. I told him next time I wouldn't bother calling 911 ... Now in this case, it depends. If my first gut feeling had been correct, that a woman was being assaulted/raped, showing up to help with a weapon in hand would probably get leniency, though I might still get booked. If I'd shown up and saved someone's life from a crazed knifeman, I'd probably be ok. Maybe get a medal :) Depends on the LEO, how they view your involvement, etc. Coming to the aid of another is generally considered socially acceptable. Generally .... First choice would be one of my handguns, but since I don't keep one next to the front door, I'd waste time backtracking. I doubt I'd grab the antique swords by the door (kalis seca and kampilan, or the Igorot spears); funny thing, I've got weapons all over the house but it's hard to find one when you want it! If I grabbed a stick from the front room, odds are it would either be one of my flutes or a walking stick. The flutes are light, fast and tough, and I can use them well. The walking sticks are heavy and have reach. I'm pretty comfortable using one, though not like the short sticks. I've been doing a lot of heavy weapon training (bokken and staff) as the weather has been getting nicer. Bottom line, whatever tool I'd grab from my house, I've used or trained with it. Not too fussy in that regard. Musashi used to say attachment to one weapon, or type, was limiting. Good advice, I think. Jeff "Stickman" Finder stickman@autobahn.org ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:14:19 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #150 I loved the fight scenes in the Matrix... very stylized. I really enjoyed the movie especially the women in that outfight. The fight in Gross point Blank had to be the best fight scene I ever saw for coming close to realism. The techniques were tight and not flashily. As stated before they missed shots and it ended up on the ground. Both fighters looked highly skilled... not the crisp choreographed moves but not sloppy either. When people ask me to describe Kali I always use the movie Under Siege as an example. Stickman were do you live? I live in Oakland by 40th and Broadway near Rockridge/Collage Ave. Just curious? I'm glad to be back training. I hurt my back in a car accident on New Years Eve. I've been laid up for three months. I started training again a week ago. God am I sore, but it feels good to hit the pads. I am very impressed with Acupuncture for rehabilitation from injury. I would recommend it to anyone. It worked to control my pain better than any medicine I was prescribed. Thanks to Ray for the digest it helped my to keep from totally Jones'n it while laid up until I could get my Kali fix the old fashion way...tapping n banging. Jeff Monaghan "The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese." ------------------------------ From: "G. Michael Zimmer" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:36:01 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Questions on this and that Does anyone know of Balintawak instructors in the United Kingdom? Also, here are some questions for the group regarding interesting web sites: 1 - Does anybody have any knowledge of the flexibilty techniques discussed in: "BEYOND STRETCHING: RUSSIAN FLEXIBILITY BREAKTHROUGHS" By Pavel Tsatsouline (Illustrated with over 100 photographs.)? It may be found at http://www.dragondoor.com/yangsheng/books/b09.html 2 - Is anyone familiar with the strength training found at grappler Mark Furey's web site: http://www.dinosaurtraining.com/freeoffer.html ? "The Old-Timers Built Super Strong Bodies Without Steroids, Without Creatine, Without Amino Acids and Without Fancy Chrome Machines ... and They Were Stronger Than Today's Bodybuilders! You Can Be Too!" Learn How In Brooks Kubik's Best-Selling Book, Dinosaur Training. It Can Be Yours Absolutely FREE! " 3 - Has anyone any familiarity with Tim Cartmell? He has a good book on throwing. Has anyone seen the video? Have any of you any exposure to him? His video is: "Principles, Analysis, and Application of Effortless Combat Throws". See http://www.shenwu.com/books.htm . Regards, G. Michael Zimmer gmzimmer@islandnet.com http://www.islandnet.com/~gmzimmer/vortict.htm ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 02:02:53 EDT Subject: eskrima: Khalid Khan Re: the "Secret Fighting Art of Islam (Silat Serrada Mahdi Techniques and Drills", I was sent a free copy from Khalid as well. I gave a full review on the newsgroup at the time and a mini review here as I recall. For now I'll just say that, I can't speak to Khalid's Serrada skill (forgive me Jeff and Elrick), as a non-Serrada guy, it all looks the same to me. Anyone thinking about purchasing the tape should know that the ENGLISH instruction diminishes QUICKLY. This makes the tape seem much longer than it truly is. (This coming from a guy who watched all Guro Inosanto's tapes in one day.) I'd say 3/4 of the tape is in Pakistani (or whatever language he is speaking). Much of the tape is Khalid correcting his students mistakes as they demo techniques. The tape shows very little Silat. This I can comment on. It is not performed well. If you are thinking about buying it for the Silat- save your money. JL ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:16:56 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Teaching Special Forces I don't buy into the concept of "it wasn't for us you would not be free". You could say "if it wasn't for farmers you'd starve". No. I would have to get off my backside and do it for myself or engage myself into a relationship with someone who will do it on my behalf while I perform some complementary act that benefits them. Unfortunately we live in nanny states which try and make us feel safe and cared for eroding our ability to do it ourselves but we wont realise it while watching the latest action on the movie channel or news channel. Soldiers are soldiers and will go into war zones regardless of the right or wrong. However they are human beings. The FMA relevance here is that as practising martial artists we are ceasing to be just spectators but are on a path to finding our own paths. Some do it quicker, some never make it, some take their time. The reason I would not stop teaching anyone who was a "Special Force" is that I do not think that the ability to wield the skills taught in my classes necessarily lead to killing but of survival. I am confident in that the way that I teach my students is in a way that encourages them to be sure of themselves and make the decisions for themselves, for that is what they are ultimately answerable to. I don't push my morality on them but I make them aware that there are times when choices are made in an instant which could live with you for a long time. If your aim is true then you will make the right choice. The best thing about the martial arts is that I have seen myself grow in a way I don't think I could have as a couch potato. I have watched people I care for (as well as some I dont) grow as well. They take their own paths now, but they do it as stronger people. The important difference here is that I am not deciding which path is right for them. From: Subject: eskrima: Teaching Special Forces The thread has been interesting. Being former 82nd Airborne and 2nd ID scout sniper, not hard to figure out what side I'm on. However, I understand some peoples objection to teaching whom they think to be "killers." snip Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 07:18:19 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Ilustrisimo tapes, etc. I believe John F. might have gotten these tapes mixed up with "another" set that contained footage of Tatang. There was no "trickery" involved on this production, in fact Bakbakan was highly involved. On another note, John(F) is right a "fighting art" it is and as I mentioned, COMBAT effective. I must say Jeff hit it right on the money. We execute the majority of the techniques within the parameters of the shoulders. Our stance is upright, structure tight and footwork simplified. Practitioners foreign to Ilustrisimo or other styles for that matter may not easily comprehend the material. On a final note and for the record regarding Mr. Torres' comments, please do not insinuate that false rumors were made to discredit you, anything published was documented by the most reliable sources...some LEGALLY! The only false rumor is that you are claiming to be a qualified instructor of Kali Ilustrisimo. If this is so, then why doesn't BAKBAKAN nor the Luneta Group recognize you as one? Yours in the Arts, John G. Jacobo BAKBAKAN North American Director ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:33:41 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Khalid Khan In a message dated 4/12/99 11:39:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > Subject: eskrima: Re: Khalid Khan? > > > He teaches all 3 of the counters to all 12 angles, > > Lock and Block, basic Sinawali, and some empty hand > > material. > > *All* 3 of the the counters? Hmm. Okay. > > > I am currently learning Serrada in the Inayan Eskrima > > System and the material that Khalid shows on his > > video is pretty much the same materal that I am being > > taught. > > Ray, would you concur with this assessment? That this is substantially the > same as Inayan Eskrima? I'm not Ray, but, as I see it there are a lot of similarities in most of the styles. Personally, I thought that Pananandata was the King of foot patterns, only to have Mr. McGrath post some of PT's patterns a few days ago and they're the same. I started out in FMA taking Pananandata and later to Modern Arnis to get better in closer ranges when I also was given this tape by Khalid. To me it was good at the time but I was bothered by his student's throughout. Thought this guy had to be a saint to teach these guys anything at all. However, I liked the form/style of Serrada and this sparked an interest because of the beauty I saw in this tape in spite of the mentally and physically challenged students this person had to deal with. With this, the seed was planted and I grabbed any and all Eskrima material I could get my hands on. In viewing most, if not all, of the material out there I safely will say that Escrima is Eskrima. I have run across better tapes where say the lock and block drills flow better. Heck, Paul V. and Deon does a real good job of this on of his "Street Fighting Series" videos. Bottom line, I have stood up for Khalid in the past thinking much of the bad press was due to politics and I found through time that everything that was said about this person turned out to be true. I was disappointed because I come from the Old School and I try to respect those that should be respected and much of my disagreements where based on this person that held a Masters certificate from AC was being abused without really knowing or understanding the background or reasons why. But, to get back to the tape. This tape had generated an interest in the gentleman you have responded to as well as a vast number of people on RMA, as well as myself. Most got it free of charge. Therefore, for many like myself, it was the nucleus for more study in the beautiful art of Serrada.Because of this, I do have trouble beating a person up over mistakes made, sins committed, and all the other things he may be guilty of and that we're all human and are very capable of making mistakes ourselves. I am indebted to this man because he was the person that caused me to see the light through this video. As a result of this video I included many of the elements of this great art into my system. Because of the fact that I got this Video for free as well as many others have, I tend to ignore the bad things I hear because of the fact, as I see it, this man loves his art and is continuing the style with little regard for money. For this, I can't look at him as being all bad and like real good workers on my job, when they goof off at times I'll turn my head because they're good workers with a human need to unwind at times. Mallen ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:03:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #151 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.