From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #161 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 17 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 161 In this issue: eskrima: Knife wounds eskrima: One attack, many responses eskrima: Re: 5th. Annual Lapu Lapu Classic in NYC eskrima: Re: Lapu Lapu Tourney! eskrima: Guru I & GM Gaji eskrima: DB TV eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #160 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:40:57 EDT Subject: eskrima: Knife wounds I was looking recently at the Hockheim book on knife fighting and he is of the belief that the human body doesn't neccesarily collapse after taking a couple of knife wounds. If I recall the Paul Vunak videos he was of the opinion that knife wounds combined with the adrenaline of combat will cause a person to collapse in a very short period of time. Can some suggest which view is closer to the truth? Have their been any medical studies? What variables are involved? Sid "Vicious" Stein Sidney525@aol.com Fil. Kali-escrima Academy of Chicago ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:15:36 -0700 Subject: eskrima: One attack, many responses A Howl of Greeting to All: Mike Koblic wrote: "I do not wish to enrage anybody further but perhaps somebody (Guro Crafty?) could explain to this martial hack (artist is too strong a word) the following: "What is the purpose of learning multiple responses to a single attack? I understand that in a stressful situation it is better to rely on one or two of instinctive responses rather than freeze while selecting the most appropriate of a dozen or so counters. "Watching the DB1 tapes set responses to an attack are never mentioned. "Is this a difference between the Art and the practical application? Is this something one only appreciates as one reaches the very top of the art?" end quote Interesting question. In DB1 as far as the teaching went, the mission was to communicate the importance of hitting hard, which is a bit different matter than responses-- although if you can, hitting is the best response!. The short answer to the question is that the different times when a particular strike comes in you may well be in different positions. Thus against a diagonal backhand for example. I might be tip up and stationary to the outside of the strike, tip up and stationary to the inside of the strike, or tip up and moving left or tip up and moving right. My hand might be high, it might be low. My body may be moving in different directions, I might have my weight on a different foot, etc. And there are all the variables of tip down, and much more. Naturally there may be different responses in each of these cases. And this does not even address issues of attributes. If my footwork is better there may be one response, if his is better there may be another. Ditto speed, ditto power, etc. Some fighters, (and some systems) tend to move between chambers a lot between strikes, others do not. (Attention sensitive people-- I do not say either is "better") In the latter category I would place for example, Krabi Krabong (comments Salty?), Lameco and Kali Illustrisimo. I have no training in Illustrisimo, but I am under the impression that PG Edgar's training with GM Tatang influenced him a lot and that, among other things, his tendency to fight from an upper forehand position he got from that source. Someone who fights from one or a few positions will tend to need less responses. Often a teacher will start students with such a structure so they have something practical from the beginning of their training upon which to rely. For example, I'm sure many on this List have been exposed to Guro Inosanto showing how a backhand jab can counter all angles. Of course, this doesn't mean that he, or any other teacher who does the same sort of thing, doesn't have lots more to offer-- just that they start there-- and for some this suffices. Other systems tend to move the stick around a lot. I would place Pekiti Tirsia and DBMA in this group. Of course the challenge here is to get the student functional and not confused. This may be done by starting with simple grids, and then over the years, building upon them. For example, the 4 power strokes in DB1 that Top Dog did come from his PT training with GT Gaje. The distinctive features are that the horizontals are through the head and knees, and the "diagonals" are very steep. This contrasts with the more common 45 degree diagonals with the horizontal tending to go through the mid-line of most systems. Yet of course to say that PT is this hourglass power pattern would of course be entirely too simple. For example, last year at GT Gaje's camp in the Philippines he taught "Tirsia Contra Dobla Doz", part of which involved a starting position above the head. Perhaps Mataas Na Guro Philip/Sled Dog or Dog Loki could comment-- there were there too and they are both far my seniors in PT. The trick of course is the fighting understanding, the teaching progression and technology. Without these three things, either approach can yield poor results. Its not only the technique, but how it is taught. For fast results, a simple structure may work best, for the best results over time that may or may not be so. In JKD, there is a phrase about "hacking away inessentials". Some understand this to be lessening the number of techniques-- and sometimes that is so. And sometimes more responses are essential so as to not have inefficient responses to the infinite variety of real time. Even though my training with PG Edgar left a lasting influence on me, personally I prefer the moving structure. My hand and foot speed, my quick twitch, and my reflexes are pretty awful and I prefer to not have to overcome inertia. Someone with good attributes in this regard may prefer a simpler structure, or he may feel he can really dominate with more variables at his disposal. In DBMA we have a progression for teaching the moving game, yet we also do a good job I think in producing functional fighting skill in short order because it is broken down into absorbable pieces. Woof, Guro Crafty PS: A word if I may about the recent episode of "As the Stick Twirls". Those of you who have been on this Digest for a while know that from time to time I've gotten aggravated with Jeff. Still, together he and I have been able to put things to rest and I hope that somehow he and Ray will be able to do so as well and that he can return to contributing. I know some people feel that there has been censorship of free speech, and one sidebar e-mail compared the "My house, my rules" position to Marcos. I believe this misses a key distinction. Marcos was the Head of State of the Philippines. We are free men and women acting freely. Ray is putting a lot of voluntary time and effort into an association of like minded individuals who voluntarily participate. Speaking as one who has had his leash yanked by Ray from time to time, even as I have disagreed on various occasions, (and what angered him in the present case still eludes me- but no matter) overall I think he does quite a good job. And speaking as one who hosts a free event, many people can readily take for granted all that is involved-- and this can really grate. I think Ray has more than earned our trust. ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:09:40 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: 5th. Annual Lapu Lapu Classic in NYC For more information on this tournament, which will be held in June, call or e-mail my Guro. Punong Guro Doug Pierre Phone: (212) 614-3250 E-mail: Guro Doug@aol.com ______________________ Kelvin Williams kel620@aol.com Modern Arnis Student ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:26:11 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Lapu Lapu Tourney! It's a WEKAF sanctioned tournament promoted by Guro Doug Pierre of Modern Arnis. Yours in the Arts, John G. Jacobo BAKBAKAN North American Director ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:54:39 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Guru I & GM Gaji Ok Danny boy's I'm back, BUT!! this time I am on your hero's side, as Marc noted, Gm Gaji and Danny were apparently giving a Demo, to which Danny was probably honored to be in, considering who his partner was, so it wasn't appropriate for him to try to do anything that would have disrupted what was probably a fantastic demo i.e. jump from demo mode to a combat mode ( I believe I have heard this some where, I guess the same courtesy, doesn't pertain to his followers and there paying guests for the day, especially if the guest is only 18 and a DICK HEAD ) sorry the voices made me type that last part. Any ways, as Marc said it was a PT demo not a sparring or fighting match. Besides if you know Leo ( only just a little bit, as I do ) you never really wanna piss him off, its not his stick work that scares me ( all though he is very efficient) its them damn knives he has hidden every where, he has been known to set off metal detectors at the air port a half hour before he arrives!!! Freddie Kruger idolizes the man!! Jeff!! Jeff!!! Jeff!!! Never piss off the man who has his finger on the button, right or wrong you lose!!! Just smile and say " yes sir comrade Sta.. I mean Ray!!" Rocky AKA Dick Head ( its slang for he who speaks the truth ) ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:10:01 -0700 Subject: eskrima: DB TV A Howl etc: Fox News (NOT Fox Files!) will be at the Gathering of the Pack to shoot a piece for their sweeps week. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 02:37:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #160 In a message dated 4/16/99 5:27:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Anyone heard of this tournament? I live right next door and somehow missed the past 4 years of it (W. 65th st., Lincoln Sq. Community Center). Sounds like a lot of different styles are represented (Any Dog Brothers??) >> yes, its being given by one of Remy Presas' 5th level students, Doug Pierre. He's a teacher in NYC. Lower East side. East 3rd st. Between Ave. A and ave. B. he has a small and humble school. not flashy, just banging sticks! check it out. Gar ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:57:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #161 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.