From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #162 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 18 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 162 In this issue: eskrima: Fwd: GM DIONISIO CANETE DOCE PARES ESKRIMA SEMINAR eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #161 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #161 eskrima: Rocky-Doodle's Comments eskrima: Counters etc. eskrima: Pinoy boxers BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from ["Jo-Ann & Mark Girard" (fwd) eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Huang" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 09:15:48 PDT Subject: eskrima: Fwd: GM DIONISIO CANETE DOCE PARES ESKRIMA SEMINAR Hi everyone: GM Dionisio "Diony" Canete will make a rare Southern California appearance and conduct the following 2 seminars (I am not shouting, I am forwarding a message and am too lazy to retype the whole thing). GM Diony embodies a lifetime of devotion to the FMA regardless of being a Doce Pares practitioner or not. He has a tremendous amount of technical skill, and is a gentleman in every sense of the word. If you can attend either of these seminars, it would be eorth your time. Dave WHEN: APRIL 25, 1999 SUNDAY 2:00-6:00 PM WHERE: MOUNT SAN ANTONIO COLLEGE 1100 NORTH GRAND AVENUE GYM 27 C WALNUT, CAL..... CONTACT: COACH LARRY WATANABE @ 909-594-5611 ext.4725 CLARENCE TAGARAO @ 909-594-6398 RAMON RUBIA @ 714-670-8189 FOR DIRECTIONS CONTACT ABOVE PERSONS FEE: $35.00-- At the DOOR $30.00--PRE-REGISTRATION BEFORE APRIL 24, 1999 SPECTATOR FEE $10.00 MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO EVA RUBIA TRAINING EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE (STICKS,TRAINING DAGGERS,ETC...)-------ABSOLUTELY NO VIDEO--------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------- SEMINAR IN SAN DIEGO WHEN: APRIL 24, 1999 SATURDAY 3:30--7:30 PM WHERE: PETE SALAS STUDIO 241 3RD AVE SUITE B CHULA VISTA, SAN DIEGO ACROSS FROM THE VOGUE THEATER CONTACT: RUEL LUPA PGR--619-998-3777 HOME--619-670-3563 FEE: $45.00--DOOR $40.00--PRE-REGISTRATION BEFORE APRIL 23, 1999 UNDER 17 YRS OLD $20.00 SPECTATOR FEE $10.00 MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO EVA RUBIA TRAINING EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE (STICKS,TRAINING DAGGERS AND KNIFES,ETC....) ----------------------------------ABSOLUTELY NO VIDEO------------------------------ _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:41:24 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #161 >>the human body doesn't necessarily collapse after a couple of knife wounds...Vunak...is of the opinion that knife wounds combined with the adrenalin of combat will cause a person to collapse in a very short time...can someone suggest which view is closer to the truth?<< Well, Sid, both are correct to a degree, but with no disrespect intended to Mr. Vunak, knife wounds (unless dead on to the heart, throat, etc.), just aren't that immediately disabling. I've been stabbed in the arm in the line of duty, and didn't notice until the incident was over, and I saw my partner covered with blood. Upon inspection, I discovered it was my blood, then the shock factor set in, weakening my knees a bit. I also recall a fight in my home town in which an inebreated gentleman was stabbed several times in the chest with a Buck folding hunter, but still managed to beat the stuffing out of his opponent before he started to bleed out. A little plug for Serrada here...we train to slash, which will cause a person to bleed out much faster (usually) than a stab, where the wound can close up. Disabling stabs require much more accuracy, which gets sacrificed in the heat of battle (this is not to say a stabbing system won't work...Pikiti-Tirsia stabs, and I have enormous respect for their knifework). The slashes will also allow you to move in for that disabling stab. < Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #161 Sid questioned; > Subject: eskrima: Knife wounds > > I was looking recently at the Hockheim book on knife > fighting and he is of > the belief that the human body doesn't neccesarily > collapse after taking a > couple of knife wounds. If I recall the Paul Vunak > videos he was of the > opinion that knife wounds combined with the > adrenaline of combat will cause a > person to collapse in a very short period of time. > Can some suggest which > view is closer to the truth? Have their been any > medical studies? What > variables are involved? > Sid "Vicious" Stein > Sidney525@aol.com > Fil. Kali-escrima Academy of Chicago Please do not view this response as a cop out both men are absoulutley correct or incorrect. It depends on the individual, the situation, the wound location and depth as well a a myriad of other variables. If you have a copy of Massad Ayoob's "Stress fire" (Yes Sticks is talking gun stuff again),and you should have a copy because he does discuss martial arts in it. Ayoob goes into great detail about the bodies response to a stress situation (I believe a knife fight/wound is condidered stressful) 1) Adrenaline is poured into the blood system. 2) Breatheing becomes shallow and rapid. 3) Tunnel vision develops. 4) Fine motor control is reduced/ lost. 5) Gross motor control is exaggerated. 6) Time perception is altered (slows down in most cases). 7) Veins and arteries dialate. 8) Eyes become light reactant. This all happens from the stress not the wound. If/When a wound occurs the body functions/ controls. change. Your mental state has a much to do with it as anything. When I was in the Army a rather petite nurse approached our squad leader (6'6" 225lbs and tough enough to chew nails) for an injection, when she got within 3" he fainted dead away. The body will restrict blood flow to the vessels in and near the affected area automatically (In a head wound blood flow is reduced to the brain). If a major blood vessel is cut you can bleed out in several minutes. these areas include the carotid, brachial, and femural arteries. People have been known to fight after severe blood loss, some people have had heart attacks do to the shock of being cut, niether response is the norm. Either way immediate medical attention is required. Sid I hope this has helped. Just my humble opinion, Sticks _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Cohen, Neil" Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:13:34 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Rocky-Doodle's Comments First I agree with Ray. Second I think everyone has the right to speak their mind unless what is on their mind is yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre. that aside. I was wondering if Rocky is a personal friend of Guro Dan. Was he given special permision to refer to him as "Danny." As I understand it he prefers Guro Dan from his students. Since Rocky isn't one of those, maybe Mr. Inosanto would be more proper or Dan. I know there are many references to him in the past as Danny but he tries to make him less by using very familiar and maybe immature version of his surname. I am sure that in different times even that would be cause for a challenge. Rocky, do you tolerate people demeaning the people you respect? do you repect others? I don't mean to reignite this issue, but maybe Rocky-doodle (the best I could come up with) should just take about technique for a while. Neil ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:52:10 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Counters etc. >Interesting question. In DB1 as far as the teaching went, the mission >was to communicate the importance of hitting hard, which is a bit different >matter than responses-- although if you can, hitting is the best response!. > The short answer to the question is that the different times when a >particular strike comes in you may well be in different positions. Thus >against a diagonal backhand for example. I might be tip up and stationary >to the outside of the strike, tip up and stationary to the inside of the >strike, or tip up and moving left or tip up and moving right. My hand >might be high, it might be low. My body may be moving in different >directions, I might have my weight on a different foot, etc. And there are >all the variables of tip down, and much more. Naturally there may be >different responses in each of these cases. And this does not even address >issues of attributes. If my footwork is better there may be one response, >if his is better there may be another. Ditto speed, ditto power, etc. > plus much much more... Having studied this and other replies to my original question it seems to me (correct me if I am wrong): a) There may be an infinite number of responses to each attack angle depending on the defender's position relative to the attacker. b) For each relative configuration of attacker-defender the actual number of responses is quite limited and in fact there may only be one best one, particularly if one is limited by one's attributes. c) Rather than mechanically ingraining each response in one's brain one can conceptualize along the lines of "just whack it - hard!" On the last subject I reached into my sizable collection of videos and watched master Amante Marinas fight with a 4 foot staff (well, a twig, actually, it seemed quite bendy) and defeat any attack thrown at him by a simple No 1 caveman - thrown with exquisite timing and composure. I guess that's why he is a master... Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: John Frankl Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: Pinoy boxers So I am really busy preparing for my general examinations in June, reading my arse off. All very serious academic stuff with little time to read about fun things like FMA and boxing, right? Wrong. While preparing for a field in modern Japanese literature I ran accross more on Pinoy boxers. This is excerpted from a Tanizaki (Junichiro) novel titled, "Diary of a Mad Old Man." It is a woman, Satsuko, explaining why she loves boxing so much to her father in law: "I'd go any number of times. It's because he reminds me of Leo Espinosa--I was a great fan of his." .... "Espinosa's a Negro from the Island of Cebu, with a honey of a left jab. He shoots his left straight out, and snaps it back the instant it lands. Swish, swish--you can't imagine how fast he snaps back that arm! It's beautiful, swishing in and out! And he keeps giving sharp little whistles when he's on the attack. Most boxers weave right or left if the other man throws a jab, but Espinosa bends back from the waist. He's amazingly supple!" (p. 32-33) A couple of thoughts/points: 1. Does anyone know if Leo Espinosa is a real fighter? 2. The bending back at the waist is classic Ali AND classical elastico--any thoughts? John Frankl ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from ["Jo-Ann & Mark Girard" (fwd) Forwarding. Ray - ---------------------- Forwarded message: >From eskrima-owner Sun Apr 18 12:54:11 1999 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:54:10 -0400 (EDT) To: owner-eskrima Subject: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from ["Jo-Ann & Mark Girard" ] From: "Jo-Ann & Mark Girard" To: Subject: Fw: Send to : eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:45:05 -0700 >> I am trying to find supplier of hardwood canes, oak, hickory or ash. I >> can't do the bending but I want to finish them myself to keep the cost down >> so I want round or square stock, curved but unfinished. I heard there was a >> supplier in Arkansa but they must not be on the net. Please send your ideas >> to > >try http://www.canemasters.com. > >Ray Terry > >Thanks Ray, > >I do know of Marks work and own some of his canes and they are really great >but he only supplies a finished product (for a finished product price) and >I hope to get an unfinished set to keep the price down... > > >Sorry this is late but my server has gotten hung up on your spam wathdog - >what a pit bull! > >Later, > > Ted Truscott >"the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #162 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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