From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #168 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 21 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 168 In this issue: eskrima: You say negro, I say negrito n stuff eskrima: RE: Pinoy boxers eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #167 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #166 - OUCH! eskrima: Targets ? eskrima: Re: New Website eskrima: Jungian archetypes in combative situations eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #167 eskrima: And Ray said lets move on! eskrima: Ch'uan Fa/ Kun Tao Seminar in Orchard Park, NY eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tenrec Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:54:36 +0100 Subject: eskrima: You say negro, I say negrito n stuff On the "TITLES" Back where I come from, it didn't matter what you called someone, as long as when you called him that you smiled. :). Besides, the only title worth having is "High Grand Poobah" and that's already taken... A question: is it considered rude to NOT to address a teacher in the Japanese martial arts as "Sensei" if you are just a guest/visitor to his school...wouldn't MR./Mrs./MS. so-and-so be acceptable? I would find it awkward to refer to someone as sensei if he/she weren't my teacher at all... On calling Espinosa a "negro", Mr. Howard (any relation to Shemp?)wrote: >He didn't, JF was quoting from a passage in a book >>>> This is excerpted from a Tanizaki (Junichiro) novel titled, "Diary of a Mad Old Man." <<<< So sorry...to explain: I did not mean that Herr Frankl called Espinsoa a "negro," but that I do not believe Espinosa is of African or African-American descent...which I thought "negro" meant (although this, to my limited understanding, is un-PC)...he is dark-skinned, which might suggest a "negrito" bloodline. A "negrito" is an indigenous Filipino tribesman. Referring to a dark skinned Filipino as a "negro" would therefore be technically incorrect. Note: "Negro" when used colloquially, is almost always meant disparagingly. So actually the novelist should have said a "negrito" from whatever... Forgive the misunderstanding, but I do not possess the language skills of Mr. Rocky, boy idol... :) (don't hit me, I'm a bleeder) Kristo Aaltonen wrote: >I've seen the term Pinoy also used with Kali, Arnis and Escrima ????? Pinoy = informal adjective meaning "Filipino", or "Pilipino" e.g. El Pinoy Matador (The Filipino Matador)...its a colloquialism (wow 2 $5 words in one post!) or as a noun like Mr. Terry said. Mr. Crafty wrote: >hang at Kronk's...you might get titted. Where 'xactly is this Kronk's? tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "Paul Taylor" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:39:39 +0100 Subject: eskrima: RE: Pinoy boxers From: gat Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:34:52 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Pinoy boxers >Many articles have been written regarding the comparisons between the >Filipino arts and the Boxing styles of the modern area. Modern boxers >duck, bob and weave with their upper body more and have instituted other >angled punches like the uppercut (believed to be taken from the figure 8 >movements of many stick fighting systems) into their arsenal. This >vastly differed from the standup, bare knuckled era of the late 19th and >early 20th century. The great Filipino World Champion Gabriel "Flash" >Elorde was a known Eskrimador and some have even postulated that >Muhammed Ali learned a few of Elorde's moves when they met with one >another while Ali was preparing to fight Joe Frazier in their now >classic "Thrilla' In Manila" battle. I heard this and always wondered what is it based on? Is it that modern boxing looks like FMA hand work, or is it based on the fact that boxing doesn't look the same as it did 150 or so years ago? Personally I think that the similarities are just that, similarities, parallel evolution if you will. Although I've no doubt that martial arts have influenced modern combat sports and visa versa. I do not think that FMA had the dramatic influence on boxing that some people claim. The uppercut punch for instance was made popular by a pugilist called Elias Samuel aka Dutch Sam who fought around the early 1800's. It was not uncommon for the early fighters to be skilled in sword, cudgel and staff, all of which these fighters used in matches. The accounts of the sword fights are apparently particularly gruesome. So even if these angles were empty hand variations of weapons work, its disingenuous not to suppose that the upper cut for example was not taken from the figure eight pattern used by sword and cudgel fighters of the day. James Figg the first acknowledged bare knuckle champion of England as also regarded a as fine exponent of the sword. The problem I have with the FMA/boxing link is that it is possible to trace pugilism from around the 1800's to present day boxing and identified major influences on the art up to the formation of the modern sport. There is a large amount of documented and oral history to support this, the same cannot be said for the FMA/boxing theory. Paul www.eksrima.demon.co.uk ICQ 33392439 ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 01:33:50 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #167 *************Extreme Long winded medical mumbo jumbo, etc. >Jeffrey Just Jeff, I only get called Jeffrey when I'm being scolded by my mother. I'm not an MD but my background is in human anatomy and physiology. I worked in the hospitals while I was going to school to support my self. I work in Neurotrauma rehab taking care of rehab of cold drowning pt.; Severe head and spinal cord injuries from trauma; Stroke, MS, ALS, and other diseases; and comatose patients before I worked in the ER and ICU/CICU where I took care of people with everything under the sun. I also worked in surgery, ortho, plastics and reconstructive, general med., cancer, psych. wards -criminally insane and other, geriatrics, etc. But I'm an EMT and spent most of the time in the ER and ICU (4 yrs) until I got my degree and first job (came later). ------------------------------ From: "Jon Howard" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:37:05 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #166 - OUCH! > >BTW, I have never been in a knife fight either, unless crashing a mountain bike into a barbed wire fence at 40+ mph counts :-) > >Ansel > OUCH! 8-) ------------------------------ From: "Jon Howard" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:46:17 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Targets ? Ansel wrote: > >The only SURE thing I have come across is to use gun/knife/empty hand to physically destroy the physical structures that enable movement. Gunwriter Massad Ayoob documents one case where a homicidal meth-head took multiple hits from coppers, including a head >shot. The offender continued fighting. One of the final shots in that confrontation shattered the offender's pelvis, causing him to collapse on the floor, where he contiued to try and crawl toward the officer until he bled out. > >It is interesting to note that the reverse is also true - unless your means of resistance have been physically destroyed (shattered pelvis/spine, all arms/legs broken), you >>can<< continue to fight, assuming you are still conscious and and willing. > This post got me thinking... What would all the ED'ers out there target as means to stop somebody - INSTANTLY! Err if the above sounds a little disjointed, I'll rephrase it... What targets (not this applies to empty hands or sticks ONLY - no knives or guns!) would the people on this list generally target in a pre / post emptive strike to stop an attacker as fast as possible - I generally don't belive in the karate myths of one punch kill's / knockouts (no thats not a challenge *grin*). I have heard of a book called "Guji Gonji" by Master Hei Long (I'm really vauge about the names and spelling) that ahem "supposedly" lists seven primary targets to stop a fight immediately. It may be a typical mail order "become a warrior overnight" text, I havn't seen it so I can't / won't comment... All replies welcome.... Jon... (jon@full-fat.com) ------------------------------ From: "Bill Lowery" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:01:20 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: New Website Hi Ray, Doh!! I have dealt with Rocky you know; - ) URL: Labanbaston.ourpages.com. Cheers Bill billlowery@excite.com _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:53:41 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Jungian archetypes in combative situations Good morrow, all... Okay, so I've got a lot of time on my hands... :) I've been thinking about the strategy of conflict, most noticably in the field of one-on-one stickfighting; I also happen to be in the middle of some Jung psyche texts. We all know that it is as important (if not more so) to understand who you're fighting against (capabilities, limitations) as it is to understand your own capabilities and limitations; so I'm constantly trying to find a pattern that my oppponent is falling into, not only in the physical realm (e.g., what is his guard structure, favorite side, etc.), but also mental realm (is he aggressive, counter-attacking, etc.). What I've started to see (and it might just be the Green punchbuggy syndrome!) is that many fighters that I go up against begin to demonstrate survival qualities reminiscient of Jung's archetypes (I told you I had atime to kill!!). Now, it's not perfect, or written in stone, but I'm finding that I can capitalize on the expected strategy of an opponent when I begin to perceive the Jungian structure of them. One example, many people in my school who tend to have the "hero" archetype... noble, willing to batle evil, but kind of naive and inexperienced in his own way. This will reflect in his structure as a tendency to go for the big, clean, decapitating kind of strikes (reminiscient of a knight disemboweling a dragon); this can then be countered, ironically enough, with another archetype... in this case, the "trickster"... oh, many a hero has fallen prey to my sneaky knee shot!! :) What I'm wondering, is , have any of you found this type of habits forming in your opponent... not necessarily in a Jungian pattern, but in any manner where a psychological set is reflected in their fighting style? Do any of you use psychological archetypes to "get a handle" on your opponent's strategy? Just thought I'd throw out this dog bone (tip o' the hat to Guro Crafty!) for perusal. Let me know what you think... All the best, Mike Worth ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:42:30 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #167 In a message dated 99-04-20 22:46:55 EDT, you write: << As for the subdural hematoma you mentioned, nice try no cigar. A subdural hematoma causes increased pressure, if anything blood loss would cause decreased pressure. >> From Animal I have for a very long time listened to various experts argue over what the human body can and can't withstand. Bottomline guys it all boils down to a case by case basis. How many people here have read "Lead Poisoning" by Chris Pfouts? If you haven't you should. It's a book about getting shot. The stories in it range from people who should have died, but kept on going to people who got shot and just dropped. In other books there is a lot of talk about the RAS (Raticular Activating System) which pretty much determines how we react to trauma. Some people are highly organized and very sensitive. On the other hand some people's RAS seems to come from the sponge family. I know of people who took a bullet to the leg and died (apparently from sheer fright over the fact that they had been shot) and I know of people who walk into the ER with wounds that popular wisdoms says the game is over. Yet they lived. I also know from personal experience that you can hit one guy and drop him, yet the same strength blow in the same place will not even phase another. When he finds out that you hit him, you are going to be in some serious trouble. I know it is a popular theory among "knife fighters" that you have cut, carve, juilian and whittle someone before they are incapacitated - and numerous examples are brought up to prove it. Indeed, I have an experience where someone managed to stand up, pull a gun and start shooting with a knife kidney wound. On the other hand, I have also found with a quarter inch jab into the pectoral muscle and another guy gets totally hairless and runs away. How do you know which one is which? YOU CAN'T! It's not until you are actually in the middle of it that you are going to discover what it will take to stop an attacker. This makes the issue of "reasonable use of force" a real sticky wicket. What works against one person doesn't even register against another. As near as I can tell it depends entirely on the person's mental state. So what does that mean chitlins? You have to think during a fight! Yep, grab a hold of that old monkey brain and wrestle it to the ground to let it know who is in charge. I'm talking whether it is screaming hysterically for you to run up a tree or saying "I'm gonna go Earl Montegue on your ass, sucker!" You have to be in charge of it. Because that is the only way you are going to be able to sucessfully apply force that is appropriate for the situation. There is no canned formula for what works to stop an attacker in a fight. You have to react to what you are dealing with at that moment. That is reasonable use of force. Your other choices are to die or end up taking showers with guys with lots of tattoos. ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Jerome Barber" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:18:09 EST Subject: eskrima: And Ray said lets move on! Hello Rocky, Your point is > > I will say no more about > GURU, MR. GM, GT, MASTER, MANONG, TUHON, PENDIKAR, SENSI, SIFU, BABUM NIM, > DAN, DANNY INOSANTO. Ok. he's all yours enjoy!!! Christ if your not in > line to kiss his ass 24 - 7 then you can't even pay him a complimet, > without, one of you guys losing a nut. > Rocky And Neil has said that he is out of this thread. Ray, has called for an end to this thread and I sense that the point was driven home. Dr. Jerome Barber ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Jerome Barber" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:39:56 EST Subject: eskrima: Ch'uan Fa/ Kun Tao Seminar in Orchard Park, NY I will be hosting Sifu Dan Donzella of Syracuse, NY on Saturday May 1, from 2 - 6pm, in the Gym, Building 6, at Erie Community College/ South Campus, Orchard Park, NY. The seminar topic will be the Whipping Hands & Trapping Feet arts within the Liu Seong Ch'uan Fa System. The Liu Seong System was blended with Indonesan Silat by the family of Willem Reeders. GM Reeders taught Sifu Gary Galvin, in Dunkirk, NY and Sifu Donzella is a student of Sifu Galvin. The seminar fee is $25 at the door. This will be the first time that Sifu Donzella has taught any part of the Lui Seong System outside of his kwoon. His usual seminar topic is JKD/Kali. For those folks on the ED List who are interested in the silat arts or kali, this seminar will be the right one to understand the connections between Ch'uan Fa, Silat & Kali. Sifu Dan Donzella is an excellent instructor. He has conducted demos for us at a summer camp and at two other seminars. GM Bobby Taboada, PG Tom Bolden amd GM Abon Baet have all endorsed him and recommend him very highly. The best part of that situation is that he is not a student of any of the above mentioned people. I am looking forward to seeing some of your at this seminar. It would be nice to put a face and name together. It would also be great to meet a couple of the ED lurkers, face to face. Sincerely, Dr. Jerome Barber ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #168 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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