From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #174 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 24 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 174 In this issue: eskrima: Re: "My Guy......" eskrima: Re: "My Guy......" eskrima: Sturgeon's Law eskrima: generalizations n stuff eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #172 eskrima: FW: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #173 eskrima: styles eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason Inay" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:59:36 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: "My Guy......" My Guy has a black belt!!! Well, My guy has a gun!!! My Guy has a shield......... In a short phrase: All arts/styles/methods are viable within their own environment. It is up to the practitioner to make it work. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Jason Inay" Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:58:13 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: "My Guy......" My Guy has a black belt!!! Well, My guy has a gun!!! My Guy has a shield......... In a short phrase: All arts/styles/methods are viable within their own environment. It is up to the practitioner to make it work. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 19:42:25 EDT Subject: eskrima: Sturgeon's Law In a message dated 99-04-23 17:08:24 EDT, you write: << author Theodore Sturgeon. Writing about the quality of the literature, he said: "95% of science-fiction is crap because 95% of *everything* is crap." >> Actually Theodore Sturgeon was a cultural anthropologist his law is a valid anthropological statement on how cultures handle core 10 % of issue that arise from being human and living in groups. His law is to show people that 90% of what they take as "the only way to do something" is actually only a local manifestation of the underlying 10%. This is a very important rule to remember when people get too hung up on 'my way is the right way" Sci fi was his passion and he would write it. His most famous was the Star Trek episode where Spock gets PMS ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:21:46 -0400 Subject: eskrima: generalizations n stuff Jeffrey Monaghan wrote: >IN MY EXPERIENCE (not yelling just emphasizing this point) most TKD >sucks and is not effective. I don't know how many 5th degree black >belts or masters I met. You sure make a lot of generalizations about the MA's. Just an IMHO: Generalizations suck. >The reason I like FMA/Kali/JKD/Thai Boxing/Savate/Most Jujitsu/wrestling is >that they look the same when fighting as practicing, combative in nature or >very contact orientated, and not static. Fairly new Fairly new to who exactly? >so this pollution >effect hasn't taken place as much Really? I would say that it is a few good >individuals don't make a bad art good. Friendly advice: I sincerely hope you don't buy into the stuff you posted...it may distort your ability to size up your opponent in a real fight... Mike Casto wrote: >I've known TKD guys who can fight very well ... and >I've known FMA guys who couldn't fight their way out >of a paper bag. Or dance the tinikling... Mr. Terry wrote: >Never underestimate your opponent or belittle their style. or belittle ANY style... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com * Too often a king dies and leaves the court jester in charge * ------------------------------ From: Jesse Manibusan Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 01:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #172 > A Howl etc: [snippage] > He was one of > those beanpole type > fighters, one of those whose strategy is to be really > tall with long reach > for their division-- just the sort to not fare so well > outside of the ring. Not interjecting a comment here to contradict. Your comment about being tall and having long reach reminded me about a Muay Thai fighter named Diesel Noi who was tall for a Thai and so devastating with his knees (on account of his height) that he retired undefeated I think because no one wanted to fight him. Imagine that: other Thai boxers didn't want to fight him! They called this guy the king of the knees. HIs elbows, though probably not as feared, were equally devastating. I am not making any kind of point per se, just that your comment led me off thinking on a tangent. > From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 00:04:43 -0700 > Subject: eskrima: RE: V6 #170 TKD > > As for TKD I would say that 95% of the schools that I've > seen are sport > orientated. I would say 100% of BJJ dojos/studios are sport oriented. I am not sure that sport-oriented focus is a disadvantage. > The instructor has maybe five years of > training and teaches > family types i.e. Dad and the sons kicking ass in the > local tournament. Again, you could put BJJ in there (the Gracies and Machados come to mind - family affairs) or FMA (numerous father/son combos out there but I remember these: the Sanchez's, GM Snookie and Snookie Jr. and Pedoy's). They all kicked ass in tournaments but I would say that they could hold their own on the street. > I > judge a MA/practitioner by how he moves when practicing > techniques and > sparing. I judge them personality-wise first. I talk to them and hopefully never have to fight with them. The low-key polite guys are always the ones you end up trying to learn from. If you are referring to physical aspects, yeah, I agree with you. You can almost sense the mastery of a person who hardly wastes movement. YOu can also feel the power of a person who snaps their movements and whose muscles don't quiver once they snap into a position. I think that these characteristics transcend any martial art. I remember seeing a video of GM Lacoste and just being in awe of his "old man" power. Man, he was explosive yet graceful. I also admired this MT fighther named Worawoot (who challenged Benny the Jet to a fight and Benny refused after watching him train I think). THis guy threw knees and elbows out of nowhere. Just chambered to strike any strike from his ready-position. Total economy of movement. Then there is Rickson Gracie. THis guy moves like a cross between a snake and a cat. Stealthy and almost flowing on the ground. When he snaps into a choke, this guy doesn't even have to re-position. His first grip is all he needs. Just incredible. As far as TKD, I always thought that Phillip Rhee was an outstanding exponent. And his joint-locking skills seemed to be impressive. 'Course, thats only in the movies, but sometimes while you can fake winning a 30 to 1 fight, you can't realy fake grace and mastery and I truly think Mr. Rhee is a master. I am sure we can all see the difference between Don Wilson, whose movies kinda suck but whose mastery in kicking is unquestioned. Compare this to Van Damme whose mastery is probably not so unquestionable, yet probably more entertaining to watch. > IN MY EXPERIENCE (not yelling just emphasizing this > point) most TKD sucks > and is not effective. Unfortunate incident but this may be relevant here: in Hawaii several years back, a middle-aged man kicked a football player once in the chest and killed him. This man was a TKD practitioner. I don't know what his level of expertise but dead is dead, no matter how you "dead"-ed the person you killed. > I don't know how many 5th degree > black belts or > masters I met. I saw this guy teaching a class, he was > so dam bad, anybody > with a couple of weeks of boxing could have walked in a > cold cocked him and > there would have been nothing he could of done. The guy > was an Olympic > Silver Medallist in TKD. Wow, are you sure of this TKD guy's credentials? Maybe Olympic TKD is not "fighting" TKD per se (I know there is such a thing as combat TKD, just forgot who trains in it), but anyone who had that much mastery of TKD could seriously put most individuals in the hurt locker, even if his training was more "sport" oriented. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 04:32:10 -0700 Subject: eskrima: FW: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #173 I'm not busting on TKD because I don't have any experience...I did train in TKD. That's why I think it sucks. Ray I don't go into peoples Dojo's and try to knock them out. I don't brawl just because. The silver medallist was probably still in shape because it was only a year after the Olympics. He got knocked out by a guy I know in a bar shortly after I saw him. Tried to jump up and do one of those fancy kicks got knocked out by a very mean bar fighter after he got tough with the guy. My Hawaiian Kempo school did challenge his TKD school and him to a friendly tournament. Rules were 6 ounce open handed gloves, no head gear or other protection except mouth piece and groin cup. Cover the toes with shoes or something to prevent a toe in the eye. One ten minute round or until knock-out/Tap out with no weight classes or belts. Leg kicks and grappling allowed. No knees or elbows unless agreed upon by the fighters. They refused over and over again, even when we said they could set the rules. I would have got in the ring with him then and I still would. But I don't go picking street brawls. Again all those people who are good in TKD are probably good just because they are natural athletics. I'm not saying TKD is a bad system. I'm saying I have yet to see people fight like they teach it. Until I do my opinion stands. I don't underestimate an opponent because of their style but I don't tremble in fear because of it either. I was trying to make the point that I was looking for a street fighting oriented system not belittle TKD. Last post on this subject. Jeff Monaghan ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: styles Regarding different styles... A least one study shows that the majority of folks take martial arts NOT to learn to fight, but for the self-improvement aspects that Dr. Kano stressed. The real test of an art or instructor or school is whether you can beat them at their game. With an FMA background can you enter a full-contact TKD tourny using TKD rules and come out on top? No, you will not be successful. Are those TKD sparring 'rules' street oriented? No. But who cares? We don't take Eskrima to become better Olympic TKD fighters. Why should we fault them for not being able to play the game we practice for? IMHO, rather somewhat like saying a Porchse 911 is inferior to a Lincoln Towncar or a Chevy Suburban. They are just different. I'm also reminded of the first Dog Bros gathering I observed. One of the more experienced fighters was effectively stopped with one kick, a simple front kick to the solar plexus. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:22:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #174 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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