From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #176 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 26 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 176 In this issue: eskrima: Preferred styles eskrima: TKD eskrima: Suro Mike Inay Seminar in Long Beach , CA. eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #175 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #175 eskrima: Most Athletic Martial Art eskrima: Clubs in the UK eskrima: TKD eskrima: its how you do it that counts Re: eskrima: TKD eskrima: Fw: Returned mail: Service unavailable (fwd) eskrima: Bring back the good old days!! (fwd) eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Grantham, Stephen" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:25:33 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Preferred styles Ray said: What I like to consider is the mix of arts/styles one might study to become an effective street fight survivor. e.g. TKD doesn't go to the ground well. Judo doesn't handle the kicking range well. etc... This is my list. Eskrima (stick oriented and blade oriented), TKD (long range kicks) Hapkido or Aiki-Jujutsu (standup grappling), Boxing (hands), muay Thai (shorter range kicks, elbows, knees), Sombo/BJJ/submission (ground fighting), pressure points, tactical firearms training. Others? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com - ---- My preferred combination is Kali/Eskrima for weapons, Muay Thai for kicking/boxing range, Wing Chun for close range, and Shooto/BJJ for both standup and ground grappling. Personally, I think all these arts kind of overlap each other in many ways anyway, so together I think they make a pretty synergistic whole. Of course, I do train Jun Fan/JKD so that may influence my thinking! :-) I trained in traditional TKD for 6 years before I met Sifu Fong and was able to train under him, and through him, Ajarn Chai and Guro Dan. During that time in TKD, I met several TKD practioners who could kick serious butt. I think if you understand the reality of fighting, and go into any art, you will find things in that art that you can use to make yourself harder to deal with. If you train any art without understanding fighting and using that to guide your training, you're setting yourself up for a serious problem. That said, some arts seem to ME to be easier to make the transition to self defense. The FMA seems to be one of those arts. The main thing anyway is not to misrepresent your teaching to your students. It depends on your focus of teaching. And let's face it, MOST martial artists who teach only immediately applicable fighting techniques tend to have day jobs. If you want to make a living teaching the martial arts, you may need to think about teaching what people are willing to pay to learn! Just don't mislead them. This is just MHO, of course, I'm just thinking out loud anyway! Steve Grantham sgrantham@microage.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:56:46 EDT Subject: eskrima: TKD In a message dated 99-04-25 17:19:33 EDT, you write: << I must reluctantly say that TKD is not a preferred *system* for street encounters. >> From Animal If you can't wait until July's issue of Black Belt (Normal people would call it May's issue) where my article on the four focuses of the martial arts, run out and get Bob Orlando's book "Martial Arts America." Among other great observations about traditional vs progressive, cultural biases, etc, he has interesting views on the cyclic nature of the martial arts rising from fighting forms, to fighting arts, to martial arts to sports. Then the cycle goes again. Even if you don't agree with the book, you are going to have to think really hard to explain why you disagree. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:00:38 EDT Subject: eskrima: Suro Mike Inay Seminar in Long Beach , CA. Meowmixnews to all, CAT Society is hosting Suro Mike Inay (Inayan System of Eskrima) When: Saturday, May 15, 1999 Time: 12noon- 4pm Place: 3918 Atlantic Ave., Long Beach, CA. (between Roosevelt Rd./ Carson St.) Cost: $35.00 pre registration by May 10,1999 or $50.00 at the door Payable to: Nelson Trinidad 11523 E. 206 St., Lakewood, CA., 90715 note: Inayan Seminar Direction: From Northern Cal. Fwy 5 to 405 Fwy So.,exit Atlantic Ave.go north From Orange County/San Diego Co. 405 Fwy No., exit Atlantic Ave., go north Hotel : Holiday Inn Long Beach Airport (DOT Seminar $59 per night + tax reg $114) 2640 Lakewood Blvd., Long Beach,CA.,90815 Tel:(562) 597-4401 Fax (562)498-1010 For those staying and would to see Long Beach Pacific Aquarium, Disney or other attractions nearby cities. ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:15:40 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #175 As a JKD practitioner I study to be able to fight in all ranges, in all situations. Besides JKD for the Philosophy and Trapping, I study LucayLucay because of the superior Philippine boxing/empty hand fighting. LaCosta because of the knife/Silat, etc. Villabraille for the stick, etc. Gotch submission wrestling for ground fighting/throws/locking, Savate for kicks/mobility, and Bukti Negara and Mande Muda Silat because of the throws, foot trapping, and it's just so nasty! I'm not saying that LaCosta isn't good in stick or that LucayLucay isn't extremely effective in knife but I think these systems really shine in the mentioned area. Standard sensitivity disclaimer - this is by no means to say other FMA or other martial arts aren't also effective in these ranges but these are the systems I prefer for me. TKD fighters can kick well but it is the method of delivery that bothers me. I also grew up in an area with ice on the ground most of the winter. I try not to fight someone in their strong range. For example I box wrestlers, wrestle kickers, etc. As we all know it is the superior fighter that controls the range and where the fight is fought, this is what I aspire for. To all those people that assumed that I underestimated an opponent because I don't like TKD aren't you kind of being hypocritical by making assumptions about me. I didn't make any generalized statements, I said specifically based on what I have saw so far. Its called logic i.e. Based on more than a few observations I only see sharks in salt water so until I see a fresh water shark I assume that all sharks are of the salt water type. Ray I have the same complaint about boxers. Most of them train assuming everyone is going to fight the same fight they are. So they are wide open to low line kicks and grappling/throws. I can't remember who it was but a world champion boxer (at the time it happened) got mugged and they asked him why he didn't fight back and he replied that he was the world champion boxer IN the ring. You fight like you train. Jeff Monaghan ------------------------------ From: "Jason Inay" Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:07:31 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #175 Sorry about the multiple mailing, my server said it did not go through. Amen to burrying the hatch!!! I have found that regardless of the ability of any particular instructor, the validity of the techniques being presented to you are right there. Unfortunately, not every teacher is adept at transmitting the knowledge of there respective style. However, everything you need to know is given to you. It also the responsiblity of the student to learn the lesson. All you instructors out there, I am sure, are familiar with having to teach the same lesson over and over again. I have had the pleasure of seeing and meeting many instructors in various styles. I do not agree with what they teach all the time, but i must admit that they do teach what you need to know to defend yourself. Ufortunately if you did not learn it, you just were not paying attention. My teachers have pointed that out to me in many painful lessons...... I of course am biased to FMA, and more particularly Inayan Eskrima, but I would be hesitant to say absolutely any style is inviable. I have seen pretty much every style and though every practitioner has not been the greatest; I have not seen a style that would not work if applied correctly. G. JDI _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: " " Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 22:19:43 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Most Athletic Martial Art In terms of agility, strength, speed, endurance, coordination, mental ability, and body control, which martial art is the most athletic? - -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:10:40 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Clubs in the UK Hi James Contact Bob Breen at his Academy for information on 0171-729-5789 Terry Barnett is next to you but based through the Academy. Also you could give Rick Young a call on 0131-554-4600 who will also advise you From: James Farthing I'm looking to find a list of clubs in the UK. I live in Hertfordshire (near to Essex and Middlesex also) and am trying to find an FMA club near by. Pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group * Phone: +44 (0) 1224 795314 * Mobile: 0410 401111 * Smtp: Patrick.Davies@Halliburton.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:10:04 EDT Subject: eskrima: TKD Any TKD people ready to spar long range with Daniel Duby of Savate, or Maestro Hulk of Capoeira???.....I'd say I would want a long range art that practices leg kicking and defenses of it. I would want a long range art that deals with countering grappling. Hulk and Duby have to deal with Angola grappling and Parisian wrestling. Their high kicks would tend to be more bullet proof than the strip mall, 7th degree, military trainer, TKD guy. Tom Furman tcsno@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:13:39 +0100 Subject: eskrima: its how you do it that counts There are a lot of people who really don't have much choice in the arts that they train in. Maybe they live in a town where there is only one martial art. Some people would have to travel a long way to choose. Ray Terry said: What I like to consider is the mix of arts/styles one might study to become an effective street fight survivor. e.g. TKD doesn't go to the ground well. Judo doesn't handle the kicking range well. etc... This is my list. Eskrima (stick oriented and blade oriented), TKD (long range kicks) Hapkido or Aiki-Jujutsu (standup grappling), Boxing (hands), muay Thai (shorter range kicks, elbows, knees), Sombo/BJJ/submission (ground fighting), pressure points, tactical firearms training. Others? For my tuppence worth, I trained in a chinese kickboxing system that was very similar to TKD but a little more rougher in the sparring(so I was told by the TKD people that trained every now and then). Then I changed to my present instructor and had to travel 260 miles twice a week to get to him. I have been training under him now since 1986. Under any other system I would have had black belts etc but the standards here are so high that that isn't the measure. As a club I have seen it change greatly over the years. I have witnessed my instructor grow, unrestricted by the tight definition of one style. Some people have said that Wing Chun isnt really combative but I dare say there are a few that would say otherwise. I myself have not seen them though so my view is tainted by opinion based on the narrow field I have seen. Trapping was slated by a well known martial artist in the UK until he was subjected to Rick Young. Now he mentions that he was wrong in his books and in his magazine articles. But until that moment he had been unable to find anyone that could take it out of the gym and into the street. So I feel that although a system might not be combat orientated, the way that you perform is what matters. Again this is where the Tai Chi argument comes in. Hardly considered a combative art and yet Vunaks first series tapes certainly put it into a new light for me.The trend then went to the ground but also with GI's. Now, since Maurice Smiths famous knockout kick people want to do standing stuff again. Or they want to wear speedos to train in! In general people are fickle and the difference between the world class martial arts is that they do what is right to them as themselves and not what is right for other people. In the judo class last week I rolled with a visiting brown belt. In his club they hardly do any groundwork and yet we do lots of it. Each school will develop on the basis of their instructors likes and dislikes. That is where the arts develop or become stale. It cannot be helped. It is the nature of things. For me I try and choose the arts that I believe add to my base if they are available. If not then the closest derivative is sought. If that's all that is available then so be it. For the street I believe it is the individual and not the art. The individual has to interpret the art and make it work for him/her. Just because the current trend is to train in the named schools doesn't make one a streetfighter. There is the case that even though one school may have someones name on it that you may be better off in the university Judo team in order to find what is relevant. I know guys that have hundreds of ground techniques but I doubt if they can use them in a real fight. I had only three holds for years and week in week out they worked for me on the doors. Nothing new about this. Hundreds of mails on this list have talked about it and is the DBMA not just exactly about that? I recently visited Los Angeles for my first time. The reason is that there is a wide variety of choices that is almost unavailable elsewhere in that format. I will return next year. But the training in Edinburgh is world class too. In London as well. I cant do a multitude of classes through the day so am limited to one two hour session at night where we work our socks off. The intensity is greater. When the British Judo team visited Tokai university for judo training some of the fittest people I know had problems because of the intensity. Its not the style but the way that you do it that counts. Sometimes being spoilt for choice means that people lose sight of that. Pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:45:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: TKD > Any TKD people ready to spar long range with Daniel Duby of Savate, or > Maestro Hulk of Capoeira??? Sure. Why not? TKD fares very well against ANY kicking style. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:58:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Fw: Returned mail: Service unavailable (fwd) Forwarding. You're being blocked by orbs.org. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [snip] > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to onet2-y.cup.hp.com.: > >>> RCPT To: > <<< 554 Service unavailable; [207.217.120.18] blocked using relays.orbs.org > 554 ... Service unavailable This got bounced back-- trying again. > A Howl etc: > > Ray wrote: > "I'm also reminded of the first Dog Bros gathering I observed. One of the > more experienced fighters was effectively stopped with one kick, a simple > front kick to the solar plexus." > > This was not an isolated event either. Salty and his lads have been > bringing the Krabi Krabong influence to bear and a few years back KK > fighter Mike Delio conked me in the head after causing me to pike with a > flying roof/teep kick-- a classic KK move. I know FMA generally teaches > that kicking is a bad idea in a stick fight, but it got me. > > Crafty ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Bring back the good old days!! (fwd) Forwarded message: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:52:39 -0700 From: Rocky Pasiwk Reply-To: rocpas@ameritech.net Organization: Cuentada deMano Fedreation Subject: Bring back the good old days!! I know this isn't exactly FMA related but, it is self defense related. After listening reading or watching , various opinions on the Colorado Massacre. I figure its time for Rocks point of view. Its seems to me that you have every advocate of every group coming outta the wood work, to tell us all how to avoid these things. Well these things can never be stopped by simple finger pointing, nor will simply outlawing guns, ( as the the liberal nuts suggest ) nor will making every school into a prison via metal detectors and guards do the trick. IMHO I think you have to look at this shit from a some what homeopathic point of view. Maybe if these idiotic polititions, Lawyers, judges, and jury's, would stop trying to force men out of being men, bottled up tension wouldn't happen so much. Now I am not saying this would have avoided the Colorado killings, but it would definitely detour others. What I am saying is, a couple of guys can't have a dispute anymore, smack each other around and that's that with out the law and everyone else getting involved.. Two 8th graders get in a scuffle, next thing you know a black eye or broken nose turns into, a law suit, with Sam the schmuck Lawyer, getting his share. So many people, end up holding in the rage sometimes for years until they end up snapping some day. Now I am not saying let kids have a free for all, in the schools. But what ever happen to the days when the gym teacher would make 2 guys who had a dispute put on the gloves and duke it out, and 95% of the time that was the end of it. And take it from someone who has owned a number of business's that dealt with the public, today's parents SUCK. I have had thousands, that's right thousands of kids over a 10 year period, that would come into my store and do anything from run wild, breaking shit , screaming, cussing their own parents out. Shit I would have never dreamed of doing. And if I did do them I would have found my self comatose. But of course the parents are all trying to be POLITICALLY CORRECT!! Ever wonder why you have to take a class and or get a permit to buy or own a gun, which can do absolutely no harm the a human, unless forced to by another human. BUT, you can pop out all the kids you want, kids that can do incredible amounts of harm to fellow humans, if left unchecked. Without a permit or any schooling. Remember Hitler was someone's kid!! Now I know that their is always going to be a bad apple from a good family, that's called nature and their is very little we can do about it. So in a nut shell, bring back the old days of letting men be men, and putting an occasional strap of leather across a kids ass!! Make it a parents responsibility to guide their kids not societies. And while your at it why not make a prison a prison, I have heard kids in my store, say that such and such was cool because he did time, shouldn't doing time be something that makes you remorseful and not cool!! That's it ( thanks Ray ) Rocky ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #176 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.