From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #181 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 29 April 1999 Vol 06 : Num 181 In this issue: eskrima: great fighters eskrima: Style vs the Individual (Attitude Is Everything) eskrima: Uppercuts & Knockouts eskrima: Modern Arnis, and TKD eskrima: hand conditioning eskrima: Boxing and knives Re: eskrima: Boxing and knives eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Frankl Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: eskrima: great fighters "I'm looking for information (bios, articles, web sites, etc.) for some of the Greatest Southeast Asian fighters of all-time. Legends like Diesel-noi, Mike Inay, Chai Sirisute, DeThourars, etc. I'd appreciate any cooperation. Clay Parker" Save for Diesel-noi, I personally find your list more of a "great teachers" than great fighters. This is not to say that all of the above-mentioned teachers are not also good fighters, just that their fighting ability is not the reason you and I know of them. Chai Sirisute himself admits that he never was a champion of Lumpinee or Rachadamnern and was little known before the U.S. seminar scene. While DeThoars, strictly speaking, is not Southeast Asian. In any case, the common denominator among Inay, Sirisute, and DeThoars is number of students not number of fights won (and not to make Rocky too happy but I would say the same thing about Bruce Lee). John Frankl ------------------------------ From: "Tim Kashino" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:25:37 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Style vs the Individual (Attitude Is Everything) Hi Everyone, All of this talk about preference of "this system for that" and "that system for this" makes for some fairly interesting conversation. Training in different systems to be a well rounded fighter is good. However, I feel that a point that should be made (and has been made by others on the list) on this thread is that without the willingness (intention) to apply the skills and know-how one gets from training, it is basically useless. None of us (or most of us, anyway) go out in public looking for any opportunity to rip somebody a new orafice just to apply or skills, but we have all seen the "dime-store samurai" type. They train in train with "this GM and that GM" (and may have even attained a fifth or sixth dan in a particular system), and talk up a storm about the fact that they do train. But when the poop hits the fan, they couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Why is this one might ask? Something called "A-T-I-T-U-D-E", also known as "intention" or "killer instict". Call it what you wish. The spirit of the thing is the same. A while back Dave Gould made a very interesting post, and in it he touched PG Sulite's concept of "intention". Each system is a means to a particular end, and not all systems are as complete as others. Ultimately, it is not the man superior technique the will prevail, it will the man will the superior attitude. I've met and fought beside (as well as against) people who have never trained in any MA a day in their life, but they fought as hard, if not harder than any formally trained person I have ever met. Allow me to borrow a cheesey Bad Boy T-shirt saying: "Image is Nothting, Attitude is Everything". Respectfully, Tim Kashino Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Uppercuts & Knockouts << I was also taught that uppercuts were kinda like jabs: used to create openings or test reflexes of your opponent. It was NOT a knock-out blow. >> I, personally, have a problem with this. While I can see using the uppercut to create openings or test defenses, I do also consider it a knock-out blow ... especially if it's well placed. My instructor was working with a guy on a technique that ended with an uppercut. The guy (who's background included a good deal of boxing) underestimated the power that the setup would add to the uppercut. He pulled his uppercut as much as he could, but it still connected. It was a tap compared to what a full power shot would have been ... but it put my instructor out for a couple of seconds. Had the guy not caught my instructor and kept him on his feet, he would have hit the ground like a brick. Now, I don't think that the uppercut (or anything else, for that matter) should be relied on to produce knock outs. Everyone is different and a knock out is largely due to timing, position, technique, and (of course) luck. Mike === Mike Casto Assistant Instructor Asian Fighting Arts Filipino Kali/ 5099 Springboro Pike Indonesian Pentjak Silat Dayton, OH 45439 Phone: (937) 293-5520 URL: http://www.guild-hall.com/afa/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "James Hudgens" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:33:20 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Modern Arnis, and TKD First, let me say "Maraming salamat" to Daniel McConnell for hosting a wonderfully wel-run Modern Arnis seminar with Prof. Remy Presas. The Prof. is wealth of information (and is REALLY funny too). Great job Columbus. (btw, we got digital pictures, too) On the TKD thread, the school at which I train shares space w/ a TKD school and some of the TKD students train with us. (we train JKD, MT, Arnis) They have fabulous kicking speed and flexibility, but hand techniques are very lacking due to adherence to the TKD tournament scoring parameters (You can't punch the head, or even feint toward it). It's fairly easy to light those guys up IF you get inside (and I do mean IF). A very good friend of mine is Korean, and learned TKD at home from his father growing up in Seoul, and he said that TKD as taught here is FAR more sport oriented that when taught in S. Korea.(It IS, I believe, the national sport). His experience was far more martial and combative in nature than schools here in the states. just my $.02 Hudge "If at first you don't succeed, buy the company and fire the guy." - -- http://www.fortunecity.com/olympia/botham/192/index.html Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Doro Hironaka" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:02:01 -0700 Subject: eskrima: hand conditioning "I recently began striking my canvas heavy bag without bag gloves in the hopes that it will condition my knuckles and upper fingers My reasoning behind such training was that we don't use protective equipment in real altercations and I wanted to train solo realistically. Should I pad up for power striking and do surface conditioning separately " If you don't wear protective gear when you train on your heavy bag, you are going to injure yourself. I too had the same approach and am now regretting it. The years of abuse have taken their toll on my hands. IMHO you should both wrap your hands and use bag gloves. I think toughening the hands is a moot point. First of all the rule of striking that I learned is, a hard weapon to a soft target and a soft weapon to a hard target. This saves were and tear on the hands. And second, open hand strikes help you stay attached to your target after striking. And last, the amount of times that you really fight as opposed to training is insignificant (this is for your average person). If the conditioning of your hands comes into play, the adrenaline rush should override any pain until after the confrontation. Take care of your hands, you might need them. Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Doro Hironaka" Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:05:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Boxing and knives "I am wondering if any one else on ED have seen a similar parallel between knife and boxing in their systems or do they teach boxing as a separate art?" The relationship between boxing and knife fighting is the main principle in Panantukan. Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Boxing and knives > "I am wondering if any one else on ED have seen a similar > parallel between knife and boxing in their systems or do they teach boxing > as a separate art?" > > The relationship between boxing and knife fighting is the main principle in > Panantukan. And Kadena de Mano. Now KdM isn't like western boxing, but it is along the lines of chinese boxing. Knife in the hand or out, the KdM drills are similar. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:49:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #181 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.