From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #183 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 1 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 183 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Not playing your opponent's game eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #182 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #182 - Double knives and all that jazz eskrima: Sumo revisited eskrima: Older practitioners eskrima: Hand and shin conditioning eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #181 eskrima: RE: Shin and knuckle conditioning eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1050+ members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Not playing your opponent's game << I know this saying. My teachers have all used it and its right. But in all the street fights I have been inat no point did I have the opportunity to think...now what are their strengths...are they a boxer...etc. Too busy mixing it but it is something that should become instinctive and your training should incorporate that. >> You hit the nail right on the head. This should be an instinctive thing, not something you think about. If I'm fighting a guy and he tries to keep his distance, I reflexively try to close in on him. On the flip side, if he's trying to close in on me, I'll let him (because that's my strongest place), but if we get in close and feel at a disadvantage, I'll either try to back out and my long range is better than his closing skill ... or I'll take it to the ground (of course, if I have the choice between these two, then it depends on the situation). The trick is that all of those "decisions" have to be made in milliseconds and there's no real time for rationalization ... your body just has to react to the stimulus it's given (i.e.: your opponent's energy). Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #182 << I can agree with both your points as stated above. The system is not as important as the person's willingness to learn. Cloistering one's self within a single system and denying the credibilty of others who do not share your own views/system is usually an indication of a lack of siginificant attitude. >> Yup. I heard this analogy once and it really appealed to me: "My martial arts are my home. If I build my home with no windows or doors, I will surely miss the beauty lying just outside of my wall?" Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Jon Howard" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:55:20 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #182 - Double knives and all that jazz The thread about mixing a boxing structure with single / double knive work is getting very interesting, would anybody with any experience in this style like to share any training methods, drills etc (apart from the obvious one - use a practice knife!!!!). An old training partner once tried something a little similar with a knive held in a reverse (icepick) grip, all he succeeded in doing was putting a nice slice in the back of his other hand (doh!), and earning a bit more respect for the blade in the process... I suppose the guntings and other destruction techniques would be a good place to start. Hmm' also makes that lead jab a little more "pointed" (pun intended), maybe a rip back when retracting... >From: >Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:12:28 -0700 >Subject: eskrima: Knives and Boxing > >From: Tuhon Bill McGrath > >In Pekiti-Tirsia the double knife techniques in which both fighters hold >their knives in icepick grip are the most "boxing like" in that you have to >"slip" past your opponent's weapon arm and often involve a punch to set up a >stab........I am wondering if any one else on ED have seen a similar >parallel between knife and boxing in their systems or do they teach boxing >as a separate art? I will give some details from Pekiti when I return from >my next seminar. Speaking of which... > >Tuhon McGrath, > >Yes, our school experimented with blending boxing and knife work together. At our >school, we teach boxing and used to teach a knife class. In part of our old Edged and >Pointed Weapons Class, we modified basic boxing blocks to be used with double knife >(or single knife) techniques holding them in the reverse grip. Here, it was assumed >that you had a knife or knives and was defending yourself against a skilled and >superior boxer who was much bigger than you and determined to seriously harm you. >Since we knew of no knife verses boxing art, we experimented with fma and boxing >defensive movements and things worked pretty well. Usually, the boxer punched into the >edge or point of our knives when we used basic boxing blocks. Just experiement a >little and see what happens. > BTW - Apart from Crafty's piece on skeletal alignment, everybody seemed to ignore my post about joint cracking, any takers (see ED issue 170), I've had a few private responses asking to forward any replies, but the real "med-heads" seemed to be more interested in Ray's one-man defence of TKD. FWIW I personally feel that ultimately it's the worker and not the tools that count -although if a person sticks religiously to one style, then eventually they will only learn to operate within (and become limited to) that style. Maybe that was what Bruce Lee was trying to say about the essence of JKD. As a counterpoint, I think it's ALSO important to stick with something new, give it a chance, a time to seep in, appraise it from all angles, before slamming it as crap or wrong or not-good-enough. Keep an open mind so that you are aware of YOUR OWN limitations, these are the real boundries to success. (yep - I've also seen the TKD guy that keeps his hands flopping about by his hips when kicking the s*** out of stuff - he must get around quite a lot *grin*) - I may practise this system, or attend that class, be instructed by this master, or use techniques / methods devised by that person, but ultimatly I am an individual, different from you or him or anybody else. My style is the result of every experience both good and bad I've ever had (and will yet have) and that's what makes it unique and constantly evolving. (I hope that didn't sound too pompus - I'm still a beginner and I live in awe of the ability of most you guys!) Jon... (jon@full-fat.com) Ps. Good luck to Crafty in the Gathering this weekend, don't work too hard, we want you in good shape for your first seminar in the UK next month. ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:39:05 EDT Subject: eskrima: Sumo revisited A while back, I posted a little on Sumo, here is some additional info: As I previously stated, Konishiki was the largest at over 600 pounds. (the one on the back of the Aerosmith CD) Right now, Akebono (one of three yokazuna) is 6'8" tall and 518 pounds. My favorite, Takanohana is 350, and his brother Wakanohana ,I think weighs a bit less. These are the three yokazunas right now, and that is the highest rank you can achieve in Sumo. Wakanohana was the 66th person to be promoted to this rank. His brother Takanohana was the 65th to earn this title back in 94. I was living in Japan when that happened and it was a big deal. (BTW I liked him before he was promoted and achieved celebrity status.) Minimum requirement is 5'6" and 165 pounds. One of the lightest competitors you will see is Terao at 256 pounds. I got these weights from the June 99 issue of Blackbelt that is on the stands now. Picked it up because of the pictures of my art's founder Choi Young-sul (hapkido) and an article by James LaFond (who I know) but was glad they had somthing about sumo in this issue too. For those that are interested in Sumo, this article tells some basics about the sport and the top rikishi (gentlemen of strength) in Japan. Alain Burrese ------------------------------ From: "Grantham, Stephen" Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 16:04:35 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Older practitioners A while back someone mentioned Dr. Gyi hobbling into a seminar on a cane, and then when he wanted to demonstrate something, he gave the cane to someone to hold, and then moved like he had no problem whatsoever. This reminds me of an incident that happened at a recent seminar with Sifu Inosanto here in Atlanta. During the Silat portion of the session, someone mentioned Harimau and proceeded to go up front to demonstrate his low stance and to ask Sifu Dan something about application. Sifu Dan answered his questions and then went on to give an elaborate display of knowledge about Harimau and other systems, mentioning that Pa Herman Suwanda's father doesn't go up and down as much now that he is older. He has a tendency to go to the ground and move from there (I'm paraphrasing), rather than popping back up as he did as a younger man. What was really amazing was that Sifu Dan then had LaVonne Martin feed him an attack, which he destroyed, then CARTWHEELED around her into a takedown and finish. It was so quick and smooth and unexpected that everyone just kind of said DAMN! I certainly was not expecting to see someone in his 60's cartwheeling around (with an injured shoulder, no less). Age may be slowing him down, but he is still incredible! Don't worry Rocky, I'm not heading for the commet yet! Steve Grantham sgrantham@microage.com ------------------------------ From: Michael Koblic Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:52:46 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Hand and shin conditioning > Nice practical question. My two cents: Canvas is a real abrasive >material to start out with for this kind of training. There are other >materials that heavy bags are also made out of that will bloody the >knuckles less. Peyton Quinn (author "A Bouncer's Guide to Barroom >Brawling") wears gardening gloves so that the hand knows what it is to hit >unprotected (i.e. no wraps, no padding) yet the skin remains unscuffed. As >for the shins-- don't be such a kitty! ;-) and >Now, you should have >an industrial strength beanie bag! and >My concern is for longevity. I am not a professional fighter who will >fight over a limited amount of years, I do want to be a warrior who can >defend myself and those I care about decisively for the rest of my life. and >If you are middle aged and with physical limitations, what >effective/practical martial arts are available to you for self defense? I thought a number of important points were raised by the participants. Not all of us will be semi-professional fighters. All of us with age, some better than others. Not all of us have jobs where injuries, particularly to hands, are well tolerated. FWIW: 1) In my "Wing Chun" period I used to throw about 2600 punches a day, about 40% on a commercially-produced "bean bag". In fact I quickly found the beans too soft, but sand too hard. I found a happy medium - rice. The problem was that soon one left one's skin on the bean bag and eventually a lot of blood. This would have rendered one's hands useless for the job I am doing now, fortunately then I was able to make my living using predominantly my brain (before I learned about head butts). Fortunately, I was not sharing the blood-spattered bag with anyone. Today it would be a definite no-no. In those days I practiced some palm strikes, but never really had any confidence in them (does anybody?). Today I wish I practiced them more. I see the sense to discourage anybody who uses their hands for living from punching with their fists (I am told that special forces train the same way - - if you bust your knuckles you cannot fire your weapon!). 2) I used to hit a heavy bag without gloves and wraps to get the hands the "feeling of reality". All I have achieved was hyperflexion of my right wrist through a mishit resulting in permanent ligamentous damage and misalignment of the carpal bones. So, now I find it difficult to get out of a bath, let alone do press-ups on the palms of my hands for the pain in the wrist. It also makes the palm strikes considerably more difficult. If I had my time over again I would never punch a bag with my bare hands, always use hand wraps and generally de-emphasize fist as a weapon. 3) It has been only recently that I learned about the importance of learning to kick with one's shin. Always thought it was strange, as it hurts, but not half as much as when one misfires with one's instep on the heavy bag (again, late-discovered common sense should have told me that exposing one's instep this way is akin to self-inflicting a leg lock!). I find that a vertical heavy bag has the same tendency to remove skin from the shin, particularly if the kick arrives at less than 90 degree angle (I do not have Thai pads or a partner to hold them). I find that two things help: a) swing the bag and kick it at the limit of the out-swing, b)thin shin pads (so I am a kitty, miaow!) 3) What to do about fighting in middle age is a good question, particlularly if one has never distinguished oneself as a fighter in one's youth, one is short, fat, with short arms and no sense of timing. I am hoping that whatever one has lost in speed and stamina from one's youth one will be able to replace at least partially through superior understanding of body mechanics, wiser selection of one's techniques and generalized cunning and viciousness that comes with bitter old age :-). A greater static strength also helps together with the excess weight if one can take it to the ground. I am also less averse to the idea of grabbing the nearest hard object...So, in conclusion of this verbal diarrhea, I concentrate on weapons, close quarters and (should do more) groundwork. The arts are immaterial, absorb what is useful (I wish I thought of that myself :-) Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: Jesse Manibusan Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #181 > From: Mike Casto > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: eskrima: Uppercuts & Knockouts > > << I was also taught that uppercuts were kinda like > jabs: used to create openings or test reflexes of your > opponent. It was NOT a knock-out blow. >> > > I, personally, have a problem with this. While I can > see using the uppercut to create openings or test > defenses, I do also consider it a knock-out blow ... > especially if it's well placed. Not so much in MT though. If a fighter drops his chin lower than his opponents shoulders every so slightly, thats an invitation for a knee to the face. In American boxing, they tell you to literally punch the focus mitts to the ceiling. So the underside of your bicep will touch your ribs as you wind up for your uppercut. In MT, some styles (like the style of my teacher's) don't even bend the elbow more than 30 degrees, I would guess. Again, thats their opener and they use it to try to split the opponents 2 hands and expose the inside. However, I agree with your above comment in a more general sense: ANY strike can be a knock-out strike. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Joey Gil Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:18:15 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Shin and knuckle conditioning I don't know about knuckle conditioning, seems like it could be a bad idea...but shin conditioning isn't too much of a problem. Actually, I was a little surprised to hear you use shin guards when kicking a heavy bag. I've only used shin guards when getting kicked in the shin. My shins are conditioned enough to hit heavy bags and Thai Pads without a problem. I'm sure I'd be in a whole lot of pain if I hit a 2x4 or something really hard. I'd suggest hitting the bag with no padding, *softly* at first. Just it up from there. I hear rolling glass bottles can be bad for the shins, and fatigue the bone. Maybe something less hard like rattan sticks. But...I'm not expert. ------------------------------ From: Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 08:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #183 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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