From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #203 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 14 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 203 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Whoa! eskrima: re: master's feats eskrima: James Bowie eskrima: Buying swords and bolos eskrima: May sequence eskrima: tunnel vision eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #202 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #202 eskrima: Majordomo FAQ, repost eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J H" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 16:23:39 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Whoa! Hey, whether or not there's a tunnel doesn't matter unless you're stuck in it! I personally believe in the tunnel- Hey, if the Quechuas could build sky high empires over 15,000 yrs. ago( using metal ore to bind their buildings), the Egyptians and Aztecas could build a couple of magnificent pyramids, why couldn't a handful of Pinoy Warriors build a couple of training tunnels??? Anyway, can't we all just leave leave such touchy/sacred issues alone. At least, respect the "spirit" of such ideas if you can't accept them on a physical level. Now, let's get back to talkin about blood, guts, and all that other slice 'em and dice 'em stuff. In respect, Fry Bread Boy _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:26:42 EDT Subject: eskrima: re: master's feats In E. D. #201 Al Sardinas wrote: "In my opinion a master's feats have very much to do with his art." Personally I disagree with this statement for three reasons. 1) It is possible that someone with no skill can beat someone who may be very proficient in their art form (a master even). I know that this doesn't happen in theory however it can in the real world. 2) This just brings us back to the age old argument what is the best style. 3) It is the practitioner not the style that counts. However these are just my own opinions. Please send all response mail to: DblDog77@aol.com Rick Rubien student of the Lanada System of Arnis "If you don't practice your skill will not increase" ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:18:49 -0700 Subject: eskrima: James Bowie I was quite surprised to read the post re: James Bowie not being a knife fighter. I dug out an excellent book by Jeff Cooper called, "Fireworks" (1990 Gunsite Press) and submit the following from Chapter 1 "The Deadly American": "Bowie was born of Scottish ancestry in North Georgia or Southern Tennessee, probably in 1796. He was an exponent of the "arma blanca" - cold steel... Americans do not have a tradition of the sword, though one can dig up exceptional cases. Anthony Wayne and Nathan Forrest fancied it, old John Brown put it to ugly use on the Ossawatomie, and there were of course the creole duelists of Louisiana." "Bowie appears on the popular scene in 1817 in New Orleans. He is said to have been remarkably well built and extremely graceful young man of pleasant manners and good speech. (At the time he spoke French in addition to his native tongue, and by the time of his death he was additionally fluent in Spanish and Comanche.) He was something of a dandy, and affected fashionable clothes when in town. By profession he sold lumber fromt he family-owned mill in Rapides Parish." "His first lethal exploit reveals much about his homicidal turn of mind. Having become involved in a quarrel with a noted duelist, he found himself challenged and thus obliged to choose the conditions. He proposed scandalous terms. The antagonists were to meet in a pitch dark warehouse, in stocking feet, and armed in any way they chose. Bowie was no duelist-no sportsman-and his aim was not to acquit himself well on the field of honor but simply to kill his opponent. He could not match his man with rapier or dueling pistol, so he set up conditions in which neither was as useful as a knife. A single-shot firearm is a liability in the dark, and a sword is awkward inside arm's length. The intelligent ferocity shown here by a youngster barely old enough to drink (by today's conventions) is either horrifying or heroic, according to the point of view, but in either case it is the attribute of an extremely dangerous man. (Needless to say, the swordsman died.)" "Fireworks" is an excellent book by Colonel Cooper and I am willing to relate other stories contained in this chapter about James Bowie including the Maddox-Wells duel of 1827 which was referred to in the E-D, where Bowie was shot twice and stabbed in the sternum by a sword cane before killing his attackers if Ray and the digest members feel it is appropriate. Cooper states, "in discussing the character of American folk heroes, the stories told about them must be given certain weight, even if they are difficult or impossible to verify. The image, in this case, may be as significant as the reality. Bowie led such a wildly romantic life that if he were invented he would be disbelieved." Furthermore, Cooper has this to say (which may relate to the Tunnel of Death thread, "...it is not always easy to seperate what they did from what they are thought to have done. It is the duty of the scholar to try, of course, but such work work does not affect tradition. The act is true to his character, as society remembers it..." KD ------------------------------ From: Ben Climaco Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Buying swords and bolos I'm looking for information from people who've been to the philippines recently or are there now on buying barongs, krises, and bolos. I'd like to know where to buy them, how to determine the quality, and what fair prices would be. Thanks, Ben _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 18:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: May sequence Forwarded on behalf of Marc Denny - -------------- A Yip etc: It only being May 13th, the May technique sequence is finally up Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Virginia Martial Arts" Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:47:25 -0400 Subject: eskrima: tunnel vision I like to hear the eskrima lore. One question that has occurred to me about the tunnel thing is, "WHY?" After training years for proficiency in eskrima, why would you subject your top students to possible death? These are the people that are going to be your successors and that have worked hard with you for years. Doesn't seem like the caves tested one's eskrima skills, but their esp skills. I must have not gotten to that high level of training yet to practice any x-file techniques. One view of "tunnel" may be passing through a gauntlet of eskrimadors. That would suck. (It may be safer in the tunnel.) I do like to hear about that stuff though. ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Fri, 14 May 99 01:03:30 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #202 >I believe they exist because our Master has nothing to gain by telling >lies. Has he seen them? >So, we can go rounds on this ad nauseam. I believe they exist, and you >might not. So why the pissing match based on belief, when apparantly >there is no hard evidence available at our level to support/contradict >the existence of the tunnels? No pissing match, but you have written alone more than all the naysayers combined. Think aobut that, but don't answer. > >Peace, > >Bob Manalo, Jr. >Advanced Guro >IESA Peace, John Frankl A guy who thinks titles should be used by others to refer to someone but not by someone to refer to himself. ------------------------------ From: jmfrankl Date: Fri, 14 May 99 01:30:02 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #202 >I am reminded here of one fight that Gat Puno Abon had in the mountains (a >true no rules fight) where he came across the path of someone who was >determined to defeat him, and attacked him. Why? What bad thing had he done so that someone would want to ambush him? And more importantly, were you there? Or is this another "my master told me" stories? > Gat Puno Abon was easily able >to hit the guy in the head and be out of reach no matter how the guy tried >to attack him. That goes without saying. >After having hit the guy several times in the head, seeing >that the guys face was a bloody pulp, and whereas other attackers get the >subtle message that if they continue they'll get hurt, this guy continued >the attack. Bloody pulp and subtle--do you do well on analogies sections of standardized tests? >Gat Puno Abon was concerned that he was going to have to turn >to one of his more viscous head strikes, but he wanted to avoid it because >of risk of likelyhood of severely dropping his IQ, all sorts of other >medical problems, and even death. Yeah, the above quotation makes him sound very concerned. Also, since I have been on a Hong Kong movie roll lately, this "I would have done x, y and z but it's too deadly" thing is getting very old. If he were really toying with they guy he should have not hit him at all. If he was defending himself, he should have dropped the guy immediately--tapping someone without finishin them often leads to them pulling out guns or their friends hitting you from behind, etc.--in any case, tactically, this sounds less than masterful. >Actually, I remember descriptions of times that the Baet's >were in various confrontations, and after putting the attacker in the >hospital, the attacker recovered and came back to thank the family for not >killing him. Perhaps true, but you only remember descriptions, not the actual events and it might be more likely for those same family members to come looking for revenge. Any thoughts from those ont the list who have spent extended periods of time in the Philippines? >Once it was a case where someone had taken Gat Puno Abon's >little brother hostage with a very large bladed weapon. Why? Was his little brother a trouble maker? Or was his family rich? Hostage situations are not so common. >Getting the nose wacked around sideways. Having your eyes taken out. This >only scratches the surface of what targets are available when it comes to >the head. I understand that Gat Puno Abon regularly cut the fights short by >giving the opponent one of his infamous head strikes. So he fights often. And really hurts people? Why? As for infamous, I doubt any of us had heard of them before you wrote (another) very long advertisement for them. >One time he put an >opponent in the hospital and the guy never fully recovered, and if I >understood correctly, Gat Puno Abon was banned from fighting in that town >again. So was my dad and Clint Eastwood. >However, other head targets can take a person out of a fight >immediately, and Gat Puno Abon was famous for taking opponents out of >fights immediately with a head strike. But he generally didn't like ending >fights quickly and so generally reserved these strikes for later in the >fight, or sometimes at the beginning when he came up against an opponent >who was particularly antagonistic. Yeah, but did he make it through the tunnel of love? >Onetime he was in a fight and the >opponent looked at him and laughed and said your too small to hit hard and >you're going to be an easy fight. Gat Puno Abon hit him in the head so hard >the guy couldn't see, and the guy later explained that all he remembers is >standing there being struck repeatedly until being knocked out, yet could >not even see his opponent. Later the two became friends, and the guy told >him that he had never experienced anyone who could strike remotely that >hard. I am pretty sure that was Clint Eastwood. >There is also a particular strike to the sholder that causes a person >to release their grip, but they aren't aware of it. There were some fights >where the opponent cocked their arm back and he'd give them a quick strike >to the sholder, and then he'd stand there with a smile on his face while >the attacker swung forward and looked in disbelief when they noticed they >were no longer holding their stick, that it had dropped behind their back. >He seems to have liked entertaining himself at the tournaments. Again, if you are fighting chumps, why fight? >If you know >him to any extent at all, nothing I've written above would come as a >surprise. It is hard to imagine what skill this man has. But a little imagination helps, doesn't it? >Well, basically, for whatever my opinion might be worth, the head is an >exceptionally good target, but can also be a not so good target, depending >on who the practitioner is and how they target the head. I personally think >the head and knees are the best targets, but I acknowledge many others that >make good targets. Students of Gat Puno Abon find out very quickly that >there is no way to sheild their head from his strikes. His stikes angle >right around any obstacle anyone tries to put up. It is hard to describe >the feeling of helplessness as you try to protect your head, and yet it is >childs play for him to go right around anything you do and strike the head >repeatedly. Of course, he does it lightly and with padded sticks with us. >But when you know just how hard and fast he is able to strike, how good his >distancing and targeting (accuracy) are, how easily he strikes right around >anything you do with blocking being futile, well, even then it would still >not be so scary if not for the fact that he is so non-telegraphic. That's >the part that gets me. It's one thing when someone is extremely fast, and >while you're too slow to stop from getting hit, you're mentally prepared >for it. But when you get hit and you never even see that a strike was >initiated, and then you think back to all of those other things. I can't >find words to describe it. Really? I was just thinking that you had found way too many words to describe it. I like FMA and BJJ yet cringe when I hear Dan Inosanto or Rickson Gracie being deified, but it is absolutely nothing compared to this infomercial. > >Lonnie >student of the "Garimot" system of Arnis > John Student of life ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Majordomo FAQ, repost 24 Jan 99 Frequently Asked Questions __________________________ ############################################################################## ## Keep this info for future reference. ## ## You are responsible for understanding the following. ## ############################################################################## Q: I just joined this list. Now what do I do? A: Just sit back and watch the messages fly by for awhile. You'll soon figure out how things work on your own. It is recommended that your read the list for about a month prior to posting to the list. Q: I don't know how to send or receive e-mail. How do I learn? A: You are expected to well understand e-mail sending and receiving if you are a member of this list. Sorry, but please unsubscribe from the list and rejoin us once you've learned. You should be able to learn about sending and receiving e-mail through various courses, books, or from your Internet Service Provider. Q: How do I unsubscribe from this stupid distribution list? A: In e-mail addressed to "majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com" send the command "unsubscribe listname". (no quotes, listname = the name of the distribution list that you are on) All commands sent to Majordomo must appear in the body of the message, not the "Subject:" line or the "Re:" line. The full/complete syntax of the unsubscribe command is "unsubscribe listname youraddr@domain.name". Your e-mail address (i.e. youraddr@domain.name in the previous example) is obtained from the header in the e-mail you sent to Majorodmo. If you are attempting to unsub a different/old e-mail address make sure you specify that address in your unsubscribe command. The unsubscribe command must be on the first line of the e-mail, left justified, not in HTML, not in base64 encoding, and nothing else in the e-mail. i.e. a simple plain text e-mail. Q: What type of messages belong on this distribution list (in priority order)? A: For the Eskrima list: - Filipino martial arts - FMA history - Indonesian martial arts - Martial arts - Combat weapons training - Seminar/tourny announcements - Filipino culture For The_Dojang list: - Korean martial arts - Korean martial sports - Korean MA history - Asian martial arts - Martial arts - Seminar/tourny announcements - Korean culture Q: I see things like IMHO, YMMV, CYA, etc in different people's posts. What the heck does that mean? A: See http://faculty.web.waseda.ac.jp/vicky/projects/e-mail/emote.html Q: I sent a post to the list but I never saw it in the digest. What happened? A: There are a few possibilities: - You sent it to the wrong address. Try again. - You are improperly subscribed. The "From:" line in your e-mail header must match exactly the way you subscribed onto the list. Fix the way you are subscribed. - It never arrived on my end. This can happen for a variety of reasons. Resend it. - The list administer felt it was not an appropriate post to send to the list. This could be because it is answered in the FAQ, it does not fit in the above categories, the post wasn't trimmed properly, etc. Resend it again. If it still fails to make it to the digest, try a post on a different topic. Q: What is Majordomo? A: Majordomo is the list server software that keeps the distribution list up and running. The Majordomo software is what is reading the commands sent to the e-mail address majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. The following description of Majordomo comes from its author: Majordomo is a program which automates the management of Internet mailing lists. Commands are sent to Majordomo via electronic mail to handle all aspects of list maintenance. Once a list is set up, virtually all operations can be performed remotely, requiring no intervention upon the postmaster of the list site. majordomo - n: a person who speaks, makes arrangements, or takes charge for another. From latin "major domus" - "master of the house". Q: I sent in a "unsubscribe listname", but nothing happened. I'm still receiving e-mail from the list. A: You probably sent your unsubscribe command to the list instead of sending it to Majordomo. List administration commands sent to the list address are ignored. Try re-sending your unsubscribe command to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Q: Why can't I just send e-mail directly to a live person and have them remove me? A: There are ~2000 people on the various distribution lists run by this list administrator. Manual administration of the various lists is out of the question. Q: When I attempt to unsubscribe from the list Majordomo tells me that I'm not on the list, yet I continue to receive e-mail. A: A couple of different things could be happening. You may be subscribed onto the list on more than one address or you may not be specifying your address exactly as Majordomo has it recorded. Send a "who" command to Majordomo using the syntax "who listname" (no quote, where 'listname' is the name of the list in question). In return e-mail you'll receive a list of all the addresses active on the distribution list. Scan thru the list for your address. Q: What lists are currently maintained by the Majordomo running on machine hpwsrt.cup.hp.com? A: Sending a "lists" command to Majordomo will return the distribution lists served. The current lists are the eskrima-digest and the_dojang-digest. Q: I'm on 'listname'-digest. How can I reply to a message within the digest? A: Simply cut/copy the portion of the digest message that you wish to reply to, "quote" that portion, add your comments, and then send the e-mail to listname@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com (using the appropriate 'listname', of course). All e-mailers are different. If you have questions about using your particular e-mail reader/writer ask the System Administrator at your site, not the members on the list. Q: What do you mean by quoting? A: Quoting is the standard way of responding to e-mail content on the Internet. If you don't clearly indicate what part of the message you are responding to, how will people ever know what your comments are regarding? Quoting is often done by inserting a ">" or "-" or some other character in front of the lines in the message to be quoted. In most cases your e-mail reader will do this automatically for you. Q: I'm leaving for a couple of weeks. Is there an easy way to put me on hold? A: No. The only way is to send an "unsubscribe listname" command to Majordomo just before you leave and then a "subscribe listname" command to Majordomo upon returning home. Q: I hear that a file is available in the list archives. What does that mean? A: The archives are just a few files that are of possible interest to those on the distribution list. To obtain a list of the files available in the archives send the command "index listname" (no quotes, 'listname' is the name of the list you're interested in) to Majordomo and one will be returned in e-mail. To obtain a particular file shown in the index, use that exact filename (upper/lower case matters), and send the command "get listname filename" (using the appropriate 'listname' and 'filename') to Majordomo. The file will be returned to you via e-mail. Q: Can I access the archive files via ftp? A: Yes. ftp to ftp.martialartsresource.com. Then cd to the pub directory. Q: Is it okay to post pics/binary-files/ultra-long-messages to the list? A: Please do not send uuencoded graphics files, other binary files, or ultra-long informational files (>~8K) to the entire list. If you have a graphics file, a uuencoded file, or some other very large informational file that you think would be of interest simply send it directly to the list administrator (me at raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com) and ask if it is ok to be added to the 'listname' archive. Once/if that is done, you may then announce to the list that file-such-and-such is available in the archives of the list 'listname'. Q: I received e-mail telling me that I am on the "bounces" list. What the heck is the bounces list? A: At times I receive e-mail meant for you that comes back to me (actually to Majordomo) indicating that you are no longer at that address. Sort of like when the post office stamps 'return to sender' on a letter. When that happens, your e-mail address is placed in the "bounces" distribution list and you are unsubscribed from the list that you were on. Every couple of days a message is sent to you telling you that you are on the bounces list. This will sometimes get through to you because the problem of your e-mail address being out of order will get fixed by someone somewhere somehow. When you receive this e-mail from the bounces list simply follow the directions in the message to unsubscribe from bounces and subscribe back to the list you were on. Q: I received mail telling me that I was on the bounces distribution list, but when I attempt to unsubscribe I am told that I am not on the list. A: I will typically only keep a person on the bounces list for a few days. After that I remove them from the list manually. I may have already removed you by the time you unsubscribed from "bounces". Q: While I was on the "bounces" list I missed the e-mail that was sent out. How may I obtain those messages? A: Past messages are available in the archives. Send Majordomo the command "get listname daily/listname.list.msgs.950406" (no quotes, 'listname' = "eskrima" or "the_dojang") and they will be sent to you via e-mail. For more complete information on obtaining a daily file or a digest issue "get" the file "obtaining.digests.or.dailies" ("get listname obtaining.digests.or.dailies") (using the appropriate 'listname') and follow the directions contained within. Q: Is there a way to obtain all past issues of the digest with one command? A: Sorry, no. Majordomo does not support that. Q: What is netiquette? A: Netiquette is behaving with proper etiquette, behaving like your mama taught you to. It is easy in this e-mail environment to trash other people since you don't have to look them in the eye. Those not behaving with proper "netiquette" will be removed without hesitation. Note: The list administer reserves the right to remove any member at any time for any reason. Q: What if I have a question not listed here? A: Send it in e-mail addressed to majordomo-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Copyright (C) 1994-99, Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource. http://www.MartialArtsResource.com [end] ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #203 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.