From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #205 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 16 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 205 In this issue: eskrima: James Bowie eskrima: Bantay kamay at pangilog... eskrima: party-poopers n stuff eskrima: Re: Buying swords and bolos eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #203 eskrima: Headshots....et al eskrima: FMA Supplies (fwd) eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:57:56 -0700 Subject: eskrima: James Bowie To All, Cooper states, "in discussing the character of American folk heroes, the stories told about them must be given certain weight, even if they are difficult or impossible to verify. The image, in this case, may be as significant as the reality. Bowie led such a wildly romantic life that if he were invented he would be disbelieved." Me: I agree with Cooper's statement. I read that at the time the Bowie Knife was invented, people did not know how to fight with it. So they looked for an existing blade art that could be transferred to knife fighting. They chose to apply the art of the heavy saber. The heavy saber was a popular weapon during that period. After all, they only had one shot firearms. Once fired, they were useless and a man had to rely on his sword (or big knife) to defend himself back in those days. In New Oleans, they had formal Bowie Knife Fighting Schools. How interesting! Wonder what they actually taught. The old knife fighters of the past are like the old gun fighters of the past. These people never left a written history as to their techniques of fighting. Their exploits were mostly written by local newspaper men who followed the sensational rhetorical style of the day and stretched the truth many times. Also, the dime/pulp novelist made up fantasic fictional stories about these fighters and claimed them to be true. People believed these stories much of the time. So myth and reality gets mixed up and we will never know the truth about these fighters. We were told that they did fight and did kill and got killed. P.S Anybody know who shot Kennedy? Butch ------------------------------ From: Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:50:23 EDT Subject: eskrima: Bantay kamay at pangilog... Hello guys, the topic is disarming empty hand against knife. Punong Guro Sulite taught a progression that he called ' tapi-tapi sa bantay kamay at pangilog ' (tapping with hand placement and disarm). Like with all weapons (garote, baraw, itak, at mano-mano contra sandatas) he had a series of hand placements to control the weapon hand long enough in between distractions to disarm his opponent. He would use this with three different tapping systems ( Kali Pekiti-tirsia, Kali Illustrisimo, and Lameco seniguro method) tapping the first attack and securing the weaponhand of his opponent on the second attack with both hands until the disarm was achieved. The thing that he would introduce to the progression was non-cooperation on the part of the guy feeding. Once the hand was grabbed punong Guro Sulite would try to pull or push his hand free, the student would have to hold on with a firm grip until the resistance decreased enough to quickly allow the student to take the knife with one of the designated disarms. The question is do any of you train to disarm against an unwilling opponent ? if so how does your system train this? do you hold on to the opponents weapon with both hands anticipating that he will pull his hand away? Do you rely only on single hand grabbs to secure the hand long enough to disarm? Do you have a contingency plan at the ready if your opponent is successful at pulling his hand free? When you achieve a disarm do you allow the knife to hit the ground or do you make it a rule to hold on to the blade that you took and use it? I look forward to any and all responses... Lameco Eskrima Orehenal, Guro Dave Gould. ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 05:16:33 +0100 Subject: eskrima: party-poopers n stuff Herr John Frankl wrote: >How many of us really believe in this HongKong-movie-inspired tunnel of >death stuff? >Or put less inflammatorily, I am very skeptical and would appreciate >hearing others' opinions, but even more I'd like to see some >archaeological evidence of such a tunnel. >Any takers? Just a comment: It'd be great if we had artifacts/documents/solid evidence for every story we heard (whether in the FMAs, MA's, or cross-stitching, whatever), but we don't. We have little to go on except for the oral histories/oral traditions/legends, etc. And because FMA's (MA's in general) were secretive to begin with, investigation, verification and validation have been next to impossible. Sure, the "tunnel of death," the "magic Arnis stick", and the "invisible daga" (not to mention the "Tondo Twelve Strikes," "The Third, Whistling Buhay nga Kamot" and the dreaded "Arnebal Doble Espesyal") sound spurious at best, but this stuff serves a purpose...it makes our arts fun. I mean, hasn't anyone wondered where George Washington's silver dollar or hatchet is, or whatever happened to Pecos Bill's six-guns? Or what about John Henry's sledgehammers, or Casey Jones' choo-choo? Should we question? Always. Should we believe? Sometimes. Should we pass these stories on? Naturally... BTW: I heard another variation of the Cave of Death...the reason it was called the cave of death was that it was used by the locals as a "rest room"...it was truly a tunnel of death... Der esteemed Herr J Frankl also wrote: >Hostage situations are not so common. Depends on where you live...during the last two months alone there has been a noticeable increase in hostage situations in Manila...not every day, but frequent enough.... On the TKD Girl vs. Bad Man with knife: It amazes me how people on this list appear amazed that TKD can be used for self-defense. Heck, between TaeBo and nuthin', I'd go with Taebo...even Stooge-fu if I had to... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com /* Is that true mister? Well if it ain't...it oughta be... */ ------------------------------ From: Robbie Trinidad Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 03:32:58 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Buying swords and bolos Hello, On 14-May-99, Ben Climaco wrote: > I'm looking for information from people who've been to > the philippines recently or are there now on buying > barongs, krises, and bolos. We were recently discussing this over at the Pinoy Eskrima, Arnis, Kali (peak-l) mailing list (shameless plug here). > I'd like to know where to buy them, I heard the better ones are in Mindanao. However, in Luzon where I live, I believe Batangas, specifically Barrio Balisong, is the place to look. I also had some blunted blades custom made at Fairview. Some of the peak-l members are following some leads and will be posting what they find. > how to determine the quality, The coin test is standard. Stab a coin with the blade and the coin should stick to the point of the blade. > and what fair prices would be. I was quoted around Php800 (~US$20) for a stainless steel blade, but I guess it depends on the type of blade you want. Expect to pay a lot more if you're buying in a shopping mall. - -- ][=====================================================================][ ][ Roberto B. Trinidad | E-mail: deadlock@mozcom.com ][ ][ Freelance 3D/2D GF/X artist | My home page is at: _ ][ ][ & desktop videographer | http://www2.mozcom.com/~deadlock/_ // ][ ][ Quezon City, Philippines | Member: Team AMIGA \X/ ][ ][---------------------------------------------------------------------][ ][ "Ye have enemies? Good, good- that means ye've stood up for ][ ][ something, sometime in thy life...." -Elminster of Shadowdale ][ ][=====================================================================][ ------------------------------ From: "David Eke" Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:50:28 +1000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #203 >>So, we can go rounds on this ad nauseam. I believe they exist, and you >>might not. So why the pissing match based on belief, when apparantly >>there is no hard evidence available at our level to support/contradict >>the existence of the tunnels? It's interesting how this story has seemed to change over the years. The first time I heard the story it, the tunnel was supposedly man made and it had to do with the Doce Pares (society). This is significant as the Doce Pares was not formed until 1932 and most of the stories claim that the tunnel was in use around the turn of the century. Again the story seemed to be revised and the tunnel became a series of caves. Mark Wiley makes the claim that the location of the caves is in Sudlon on the island of Cebu. Sudlon is about 4 hours away from Cebu City and is fairly accessible (if you know the people). A good friend comes from there and I have visited the place a number of times. There are plenty of limestone caves around some were used by the Japanese during WW2 and blown up at the end of the war. There are even some old guys up there who know some arnis. They have the old style of wide stances and long flowing strikes but absolutely no knowledge of this mythical cave. For me, I don't believe the caves, tunnels or whatever you want to call them existed. ------------------------------ From: Michael Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:49:02 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Headshots....et al Most MA will acknowledge that placement (target,angle,etc) is as important as power in a "knock out" strike. Power, placement,and timing are all critical. One of the true values of DB style fighting (or variations on it) is that it forces you to understand how the adrenal rush of "fight or flight" can demolish your techniques, attributes, and conditioning...quickly. As an example: Many of us have trained in guntings or destructions, both EH and armed and can create some interesting :) reactions. Try them when going full contact with a talented boxer whose sole goal is to shift your spinal alignment....different reality. Now does that mean that they don't work, or they failed me...no, IMHO it means that I failed them. Two additional thoughts: one any padding will have an impact on the...well..the impact and my understanding is the frontal part of the skull is one of the thickest parts of the head (sounds like placement again). I also give credit to Crafty and the other DB who understand the benefits and the limitations of their fighting. If I get hit in the head first and in a padded area, I may go ahead and put a whooping on you, but I know I have a lot more to work on. Regards Michael ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: FMA Supplies (fwd) Forwarded message: From Kel620@aol.com Sun May 16 12:31:11 1999 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:18:19 EDT Subject: FMA Supplies Ready Made Sticks: http://www.bloodsport.com/index1.htm http://www.crl.com/~mjr/stickman.html http://www.mdenterprise.com/ http://www.canemasters.com/ http://www.dls.net/~vama/eskrima/stix.htm http://lugani.com/visayanlegacy/index.html datu@erols.com 800-879-4574 Raw Rattan: http://www.weavenet.com/brw.html http://www.franksupply.com/bamboo.html Training Knives/Live Blades: http://www.cutleryshoppe.com http://www.abc-direct.com http://members.aol.com/rburgee876/edges.html http://www.invis.com/kriscutlery/ ------------------------------ From: Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #205 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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