From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #208 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 18 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 208 In this issue: eskrima: How low do you go? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #207 eskrima: Re: do any of you train to disarm against an unwilling > >opponent? eskrima: Re: "On Killing" eskrima: Re: "On Killing" eskrima: Filipino Martial Arts magazine eskrima: Impact (fwd) eskrima: Re: Ring of steel eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #207 eskrima: Re: A tangent from the disarms discussion eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J Kevin Curtis" Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 22:42:33 -0400 Subject: eskrima: How low do you go? Hi.... I'm interested in the Digest members view on attacking on the low line with the knife. Often times when knife sparring, I cut low and end up getting countered. I get there first, but a good percentage of the time I receive a cut in return. Is it just a matter of getting in more sparring time, or do you guys do something magikal to assure escaping unscathed? I either go for the single direct attack, or use the low attack in combination, but I feel a little "naked" once I'm down there. Is there some position I should strive to get my opponent into to allow myself more time to withdraw from the low posture? Do you try to check your opponent some how before going low? Well...what you guys think? Is this a low percentage move....would you attempt it in a one-on-one blade confrontation(yeah....right....how often does that happen :') ? "It slices, it dices....it's vegematic!" ~Kev ------------------------------ From: "arlan and angel sanford" Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:22:02 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #207 >--We are still paying for the Vietnam war. The percentage of our homeless >who were Vietnam era vets is staggering. We got a lot of our drug >problem from returning soldiers who had been self-medicating in an >effort at slow suicide or to dull the pain of what they did. Soldiers >would be on patrol in the jungle in the morning and back in the States >after a lonely plane ride just a few hours later. I've met an awful >lot of guys who still have a touch of swamp fever decades later. That's >why the subtitle is "The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill". I know it's a little off FMA subject matter, but I hate when people spout stuff like this. The above statements are absolutly false and I think it does a great disservice to guys who fought there to propagate these "urban myths". In several studies (I'll be happy to be more specific tomorrow when I have the paper work) Viet Vets actually showed a lower incidence of homelessness and drug use than the general population both immediately after return and continuing until present. Psychological profiles show WW2 vets more likely to experiance problems than Vietnam era vets. There were a higher percentage of draftees in WW2, the average age was almost 5 years younger and a greater percentage were poor in WW2. Arlan ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:47:54 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: do any of you train to disarm against an unwilling > >opponent? From: "Robert Masson" > The question is do any of you train to disarm against an unwilling > >opponent? if so how does your system train this? do you hold on to >the >opponents weapon with both hands anticipating that he will pull >his hand >away? Do you rely only on single hand grabbs to secure the >hand long >enough to disarm? Do you have a contingency plan at the >ready if your >opponent is successful at pulling his hand free? When >you achieve a disarm >do you allow the knife to hit the ground or do >you make it a rule to hold >on to the blade that you took >and use it? I look forward to any and all responses... YES, we do this and we do all what you ask...sometimes. My students love to 'cut' me up if I'm too slow. We practice the concepts then we train freestyle and everything seems to get covered sooner or later because it is so unpredictable! I personally like to keep the opponent chasing me until he lunges out and gets over-extended, then disarms sometimes work, or if I get a good grip while moving back or triangle, I pull him off balance to make the effect. I must also admit that when I get a good two handed grip on the wrist safely, I leave FMA behind and go into Peyton Quinn's stuff - don't resist force with force, use continuous motion and continuous attack. After a few strong palm heels and elbows to the neck and head, I punch the weapons hand to open it. Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:48:09 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: "On Killing" >From: "J Kevin Curtis" [snip] >Just finished a very interesting book titled "ON KILLING"... [snip] >My question is... could we (martial artists) kill if the need arose? Do you >think that we are doing a form of desensitization when we practice our knife >drills? Is there a need for desensitization in martial artists? >Kev I always say that I fight under a handicap because not only am I adverse to killing, I'm adverse to hurting others at all and I train to be able to handle a physical confrontation with LESS trauma to everyone's ego and body, not more... I train so I can be the pacifist I am by choice...yet I don't let anyone abuse me or mine because I am not a pacifist by default, not having any other choice. And the last thing we need running around is a bunch of yahoo adolescents that are desensitised to violence. Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:00:44 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: "On Killing" My own take 'on killin' and martial arts - if your "martial" art isn't about killing and living with the power to kill and the aftermath of having killed, then it isn't a martial art at all but a (perhaps) "martial" sport. Take death out of martial art and you have a sport. Take contact out of your martial sport and you have an exercise... tae bo is not a martial art and those 'girls' shouldn't be wearing black belts to promote it. Ok, ok, I'm down, soapbox goes away for awhile! Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: Michael Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 06:40:11 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Filipino Martial Arts magazine Could someone please post contact information on the Filipino Martial Arts magazine. Regards Michael ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Impact (fwd) Forwarding. Sent to the wrong address. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Forwarded message: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:48:54 EDT Subject: Impact To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com I have just recently started teaching Kempo and Lanada and Serrada in a TKD school in Ft. Lauderdale. A friend asked me if the recent shootings would have any effect on my ability to get students, I honestly don't know, any thoughts on this? As a rule I don't like to teach sticks to kids, do any of you teach kids? Peace Yvonne ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Ring of steel I saw Ring of Steel several years ago (over 4). I remember thinking that it was a pretty good show (but, then, I'm a big "B" movie fan anyway). However, at that time, I hadn't started training in Kali ... so weapon work was something I had seen and played with a little in Goju-Ryu and, regardless of what I may have thought at the time, I didn't even have a rudimentary understanding of weapons. Consequently, I can't really speak to the fighting in the movie. Mike _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:23:18 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #207 In a message dated 99-05-17 22:42:25 EDT, Todd Ellner writes: << I think that a certain amount of desensitization is vital if you are practicing martial arts for self-protection. You will get hurt, and you might get cut, but if you are conditioned and desensitized you will not stop, and you will act in the (hopefully) efficient way that you have been taught without hesitation. >> From Animal Believe it or not I disagree on the need for desenititization in an urban environment. As Todd so well points out the ramifications of that kind of training in Vietnam are horribly obvious. And as much as I hate to say this, we see the results of desenititization that the liberal elite are so shrieking about. (Oddly enough though nobody questions the fact that the other significant factor is the same liberal elite's emphasis of self. Guess what folks, a twisted "Me generation" philosophy when combined with this desenstitization ends up in sociopathic behavior -- DUH!) One of the major issues in society is working with others. That requires empathy. The ability to accurately guess and imagine what the other person is feeling and tailor your actions and words accordingly. Unfortunately, this skill is being lost, not in the battlefield or the mean streets, but just in the daily corporate grind. The more extreme versions are seldom faced, yet everyday descisions are made that put workers out of jobs, financially destroy areas, knife co-workers in the back, instigate rivialries between departments etc. We are being desensititized already. Now while the idea of an Arnie type of Terminator killer looks good (free of all those pesky emotions able to kill without hesitation or remorse. Oh yeah and programble too, golly gosh that's really good), the truth is emotions and moral conflicts cannot be supressed. Literally they are like the gang problem the LA sheriffs discovered. When the gangs hung out in the park they knew where the trouble would be. (the locals knew and avoided the parks) When the Departments bowed to larger civic political pressure and chased the gangs out, the results were disaster. The parks were safer but the streets far more dangerous - because now the problems were widespread and unpredictable. You try to desenititize and supress those feelings and they will crop up in other areas of your life - like drinking, sexual disfunction, depression or out and out insanity. (Gee a homeless MICA Vietnam vet). Now looping this back to whether or not you can kill someone. That's a step beyond corporate lifestyle of most people. Like violence is usually defined as that level of force beyond which I comfortable with in order to win and therefore bad (everything up to that is not violence and therefore okay though) you are talking a level of desensititization that exceeds normal people's standards. Remember folks you have to survive the after effects as well as the incident. You will earn the Mark of Caine if you kill someone. And if killing that person doesn't bother you, then the social osterization will. What kind of monster are you that you can kill without remorse? As a normal citizen I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND YOU BECAUSE YOU MIGHT GO OFF AGAIN! That is what is going to happen if you desensitize. On the other hand if you go in knowing full well the horror of what you are doing, aware of the fact that you causing agony in the taking of a human life, that you are breaking you're society's moral prohibition about killing, accepting that you will be forever changed -- because the alternative is WORSE! Then you can still act without hesitation. It is the final resolution of a suck ass situation. One that by god you wish there was another way, but this f**ker insisted on putting on you or him terms. I am not going to let this SOB not only kill me, but destroy my family by killing me. He pushed it, he put me in a kill or be killed situation and when faced with that choice, I reacted faster than he did -- it's down to that. That is a rational and reasonable decision. It is also one that you still make without becoming a monster. Go in knowing full well what it is you are doing. From that you will be able to recover and continue your life. Don't hide from the reality behind desensitization, because that will either destroy you or turn you into the very monster you fear. ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: A tangent from the disarms discussion << My students and I practice disarms religiously but they understand the unfortunate reality. They will never "go for a disarm" but will be prepared if the situation arises. >> My instructor trains us like this as well. But, isn't all of fighting like this? If you go into a fight (whether weapons are involved or not) with a "plan," then you will most likely be trashed before you get the chance to implement your plan ... regardless of how good the plan seems. We train so that our bodies can get certain reflexes hardwired into them so that we don't have to think when we fight. If we go into a fight thinking, "I'll do this, this, and this." then we end up trying to do those things and we miss all the other stuff we could be doing. Doing this type of thing in training can be useful (i.e.: in grappling, restricting one guy to armbars while the other guy can use anything) in drilling a certain technique ... and in finding hundreds of different ways to get to that technique. But in training, you get to try again. I was doing knife work with a guy a few months back. The guy had never really done any knife work before. I went to get the disarm and I screwed up and, basically, walked into his knife. I mentally said a few choice words to myself, then I stepped back and told him to come again. He made a comment to the effect that, had it been real, I would be dead and there wouldn't be a second chance. I said, "Yup. That's why I'm here training. The ten or a hundred times I 'die' in training may mean that I won't *need* a second chance in reality because I will *hopefully* have learned from my mistakes in training." Boy, my lack of sleep is shining through now ... I've skipped around a lot here. Umm ... back to the original tangent: Disarms, and all aspects of fighting, should be taught as nothing more than tools to be used when the time is right. Through training, we develop those tools ... and we hopefully develop a sense of *when* to use them. Sorry about the meandering digressions ... Mike _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #208 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.