From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #209 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 18 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 209 In this issue: eskrima: Re: >From Animal eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #208 eskrima: "de-sensitization" eskrima: Dr. Gyi eskrima: Chicago Seminar eskrima: Re: Killing and Video Games eskrima: Re: "On Killing" Re: eskrima: Re: Killing and Video Games eskrima: Grand Master Canete Seminar in Dayton, Ohio eskrima: Re: Disarming Knives eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #205 eskrima: Re: Desensitizing eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ted Truscott Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:05:03 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: >From Animal Animal, you say it so much better!! Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: Winkles Randy D SSgt 12 AF/LGA Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:01:32 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #208 In regards to Yvonne and teaching kids. I recently started teaching sticks to kids and I have had a very successful start. They are learning the basic (Doce Pares) Heaven, Earth, Standard, Combo and some basic defense against the strike. My kids have been doing it for about 2 months along with the open hand techniques of "Pangamot" (which they have been learning for about 4 months). We recently did a demonstration at a local Tournament and blew the audience away. We have been asked to do a demonstration for the city of Tucson Arizona coming up in June and I have to tell you, the kids love it and they work hard at it. I would recommend starting kids out as early as you have the patience for it. My own kids are 4 and 7 and I teach them and they catch on quick. Currently I am only teaching 30 kids the Doce Pares Stick Patterns and Counters but, I am going to open it up to my other kids in July which will more than triple the kids that will be learning the "Pangamot" system. But it takes allot of patience with kids. I urge you to go slow with them and you will have a outstanding results. Randy Winkles 2nd Dan "Pangamot" System - -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 7:58 AM Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #208 Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 18 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 208 In this issue: eskrima: How low do you go? [435 lines deleted. Please do not send issues of the digest back to the list.] ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: "de-sensitization" All of this post-Columbine H.S. talk about a generation de-sensitized to violence, IMVHO, is crap. A hundred years ago, three generations of a family would pack a picnic lunch and go watch the local rustlers get hanged (now there's de-sensitization)! Who pulled the lever at these periodic events? Crafty has mentioned his Burmese executioners staff on the list several times with nary a comment. Let's explore this for a second... the local executioner (read: sanctioned serial killer) would carry out his job function by busting the skulls of the condemned like melons... and probably publicly. Yes, I know, it's a different culture, but that's not my point. My point is that there have always been people who can kill with no feeling at all. In the cases above, it was just a job. In other times and cultures there were outlets for these folks... torturers and executioners. Repulsive concept?? Yes! But the fact remains that these people existed. How about vampire and werewolf legends?? Did super-natural creatures really leave blood-drained and mutilated corpses strewn across the countryside? I think it's much more likely that homocidal humans were responsible. This type of behavior is innate for a certain percentage of the population and always has been, long before video games, movies, and television. Just my $.02 Drew _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Joe Marszalek Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Dr. Gyi This past weekend I was lucky enough to meet with Dr. Gyi. He is truly an amazing individual. He mentioned that he documented some military encounters for some magazines. I'm assuming that it was for such magazines like Soldier of Fortune. Does any one have or know of any specific magazine issues? Sincerely, Joe Marszalek === Web Admin for Martial Arts Koncepts -- http://home.earthlink.net/~makoncept _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 12:19:46 EDT Subject: eskrima: Chicago Seminar Hi Everyone, I will be at the Degerberg Academy this weekend the 22nd & 23rd for a seminar. I will be teaching: Kali, Lameco Eskrima, Maphilindo Silat, Shoot Wrestling and Jun Fan Gung Fu. Please call the Degerberg Academy at (773) 728-5300 for more details. Thank you Ron Balicki ------------------------------ From: John Pellitteri Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:19:27 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Killing and Video Games Hi all, I've been following the thread regarding video games and killng. I haven't read the book, but I'm certainly going to get it. A brief comment: It's been well documented that in WWII a high percentage of soldiers didn't fire their weapons - I saw the quoted statistic around 20% on the list, and I'd read closer to 45% elsewhere, but no matter. The armed forces realized that in order to raise this percentage, they needed to create kind of a "dis-association" in the soldiers (which, by the way, is a primary contributor to Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). They were able to do this with video simulations, not unlike Quake and Doom. This "helped" the soldiers seperate themselves from the act (dissociate) and the percentage of weapons firing doubled almost immediately. I agree with the gentleman who said that a player of Quake does not a murderer make, nor does the skill with the mouse correlate exactly with the skill of shooting a firearm; however, psychological research indicates that the dissociative state encouraged/practiced by these video games assists human beings in overcoming the hesitation they have shown in committing acts of violence. John Pellitteri ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:26:36 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: "On Killing" Animal says: << I think that a certain amount of desensitization is vital if you are practicing martial arts for self-protection. You will get hurt, and you might get cut, but if you are conditioned and desensitized you will not stop, and you will act in the (hopefully) efficient way that you have been taught without hesitation. >> >Believe it or not I disagree on the need for desenititization in an urban >environment. It's probably a matter of perspective. The only teaching I do is women's self defense. The place where a lot of them are starting from is a few steps down from the "reasonable level of force" that their situation requires. A lot of them haven't hit anything since they were small children and need to learn that it's OK to hurt someone who is trying to hurt you. And, as you pointed out in an earlier message, a lot of people (women particularly) get in trouble when they don't follow through. I would never want to turn out stone killers much less become one. We've got enough depersonalization and cruelty in the world as it is. But I do think that the ability to do what needs to be done without dithering and worrying is important so that one will not freeze. And the greatest problem I've had in teaching has been getting the students to do that. >(Oddly enough though nobody questions the fact that the other significant >factor is the same liberal elite's emphasis of self. Guess what folks, a >twisted "Me generation" philosophy when combined with this desenstitization >ends up in sociopathic behavior -- DUH!) Eh. I'd say it's more likely the corporate feudal culture with it's capitalistic idea that everything is a commodity and emphasis on "Bugger you Jack, I've got mine." But that's because you're a right-wing loon and I'm a left-wing nutcase :-) [snip] >We are being desensititized already. In many ways. Read the Spring issue of Ad Busters, for instance. "The Factory is Your Living Room. The Product is You." >Now while the idea of an Arnie type of Terminator killer looks good (free of >all those pesky emotions able to kill without hesitation or remorse. Oh yeah >and programble too, golly gosh that's really good), the truth is emotions and >moral conflicts cannot be supressed. I'm arguing for something a lot more mild than that. Training to the point where when you are hurt or feel that you are about to be you do what you have to as efficiently as you can. And then you go to pieces, have the shakes, call the police, see a doctor, and deal with the consequences afterwards. The emotions are important and should not be supressed or denied. I just want to make sure that I and the people I teach can deal with the immediate threats long enough to stay alive and in one piece so that we can deal with the aftermath. Case in point: A good friend of mine was the outside security guy at a local all orientations nightclub. Someone, for reasons we will never know, walked up and drew on him. Gun out, hammer back, from about three feet away. He did what he had to and then called the police. They didn't arrest him, and there was no indictment. He spent the next three months in a fugue, and the nightmares finally stopped a few years later. I'm really sorry that he did, but I'm glad that he didn't get gutshot. Another one: A student of ours was nearly raped at a fraternity party (fraternity + football team + alchohol = trouble). She got out of it with nothing worse than bruises on her neck from where he tried to choke her when the rape thing didn't work. She said that the ability to stop looking at him like a friend was what worked for her. Four days later she was still laughing one minute, crying the next, and punching holes in walls the next. I'm glad she had that sort of emotional reaction. Otherwise I'd wonder if she were sane. But I'm also glad that she was able to turn off the empathy and let the training take over for long enough when she had to. I also wish she had mentioned this BEFORE she did the padded attacker thing in class. "I trusted you you motherf@#$%!!" *Bang* *Bang* *Crunch* *Throttle* "I trusted you!" >You will earn the Mark of Caine if you kill someone. >And if killing that person doesn't bother you, then the social osterization >will. What kind of monster are you that you can kill without remorse? As a >normal citizen I DON'T WANT TO BE AROUND YOU BECAUSE YOU MIGHT GO OFF AGAIN! If the thought of killing someone else, even if there is no other choice, doesn't bother you something is seriously wrong. But if I have no other alternative I'd rather do it and live with the consequences than be dead. >That is what is going to happen if you desensitize. On the other hand if you >go in knowing full well the horror of what you are doing, aware of the fact >that you causing agony in the taking of a human life, that you are breaking >you're society's moral prohibition about killing, accepting that you will be >forever changed -- because the alternative is WORSE! Then you can still act >without hesitation. It is the final resolution of a suck ass situation. One >that by god you wish there was another way, but this f**ker insisted on >putting on you or him terms. I am not going to let this SOB not only kill me, >but destroy my family by killing me. He pushed it, he put me in a kill or be >killed situation and when faced with that choice, I reacted faster than he >did -- it's down to that. Animal, did were you an old-style revival preacher in a former life? You do know how to preach the Gospel :-) ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Killing and Video Games > It's been well documented that in WWII a high percentage of soldiers > didn't fire their weapons - I saw the quoted statistic around 20% on the > list, and I'd read closer to 45% elsewhere, but no matter. The ~20% number is from WWI. ~40% in WWII. ~50% in the 'Korean Conflict'. ~90% in Vietnam. Or something along those lines... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "McWhorter, Russ" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:52:22 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Grand Master Canete Seminar in Dayton, Ohio > >Who was saying, not too long ago, that there wasn't any good FMA in the >Midwest! > >Grandmaster Canete will give a seminar on Doce Pares style at the Taningco >Academy of Martial Arts (TAMA) in Dayton, Ohio, on May 21, 22, and 23. > >Visit the TAMA website at http://www.tamamartialarts.com/calendar.htm for >contact numbers and other details. > > ------------------------------ From: Terry Tippie Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:54:34 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Disarming Knives A couple of points on disarming knives from my perspective. I think it's good to be aware of where a disarmed knife falls (if you don't keep it) in relation to your opponent. Your subsequent strategy should be to prevent your opponent from getting to that weapon, probably by: 1) increasing the distance between your opponent and the knife and/or 2) keeping yourself between the knife and your opponent. Maybe it's obvious, but I've seen a lot of people that aren't too aware of where the knife falls. They do real nice throws but land their opponent in a position where the guy on the ground could just pick it up. Um, don't do that. (Bad Eskrimador! Go to the corner, and face the corner!) I've found that something simple like a shove seems to be low risk and does the trick. (See Muay Thai/KK for a well-refined shove.) Respectfully, Terry Tippie Pacifica, CA re: Computer games vs. violence thread. Gee, some of those games look like they might be kinda fun. I really don't know much about the subject, but I wonder whether there's maybe a very small percentage of the population that are near the edge of a violent psychosis for whom those games (or other violent media) can make a big impact. It's too bad we can't identify those guys earlier and leave alone the rest of the people find harmless entertrainment in stuff like high-body count movies, games, etc. ------------------------------ From: "Bradley Ryan" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:22:59 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #205 Hello everyone, On the topic of disarms (excellent topic), a few of my thoughts; IMHO and in my experience, the only times disarms work is when you're not thinking about them, and your neurological response does the right thing (after a billion repetitions and tons of sensitivity drills). To get right down to it though, I just as soon strike the hand or wrist hard enough to make them drop their weapon, and keep me far enough away from any counter slashes. Hell, I'd just as soon not get into this situation in the first place. I firmly believe in the rule that if two knife fighters get into it, they will both get cut. And if he's got the knife and I am unarmed, I hope I'm wearing my running shoes. Peace, Bradley _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "J H" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 10:45:21 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Desensitizing I don't really feel that martial artists become desensitized by drilling in( for lack of a better word) "kill" techniques. On the contrary, I feel that by training in such techniques, one learns to see the world( energy, chi) in it's totality, in it's beauty. Birth, death, rebirth... the great circle of life must be understood to a great degree if one is give or take from it. **** Homicidal maniacs and other deviants are an exception to this circle. While they do have their place in this world, it is not of a sacred nature, but a malevolent nature.**** I just feel that being a martial artist is a sacred path to walk. I don't feel that any MA would take the life of another, unless it was truly necessary. It's a sad truth, but we all reach our untimely deaths( whether it be of a natural or a more violent nature) sooner or later. That's just how it works, eh. Any input? I'd appreciate it! Mabuhay Ang MA's!!! Fry Bread Boy _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #209 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.