From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #211 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 19 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 211 In this issue: eskrima: R. King Re: eskrima: R. King eskrima: Japanese ranking in FMA eskrima: Aggro man (fwd) [none] eskrima: James Bowie Part II eskrima: Re: "De-sensitization" eskrima: Master Dong Cuesta Seminar Review eskrima: Leo Fong eskrima: Laban Tulisan Eskrima eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #210 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #210 eskrima: Tom Bisio in Venice eskrima: re: FMA mag eskrima: knife fighting eskrima: Leo Fong's CV eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #210 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Koblic Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:53:23 -0700 Subject: eskrima: R. King >If you ever need a classic case of how society can become desensitized to >violence, look no further than the 1st trial of the LA officers accused of >beating Rodney King. The defense used this very tactic be showing the video >of the beating over and over again to the jury, thus effectively dehumanizing >the damage being inflicted. I venture to say that if the viewing of the tape >had been limited, the outcome of the first trial would have been significanly >different. The jury would still have been able to relate their feelings of >horror at what was happening to King to a more just outcome. My understanding was that the acquittal resulted from the jury seeing the tape in its entirety including 13 seconds that were never shown on TV. That part showed R. King attacking the policemen before the subsequent beating etc. Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:29:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: R. King > >If you ever need a classic case of how society can become desensitized to > >violence, look no further than the 1st trial of the LA officers accused of > >beating Rodney King. The defense used this very tactic be showing the video > >of the beating over and over again to the jury, thus effectively dehumanizing > >the damage being inflicted. I venture to say that if the viewing of the tape > >had been limited, the outcome of the first trial would have been significanly > >different. The jury would still have been able to relate their feelings of > >horror at what was happening to King to a more just outcome. > > My understanding was that the acquittal resulted from the jury seeing the > tape in its entirety including 13 seconds that were never shown on TV. That > part showed R. King attacking the policemen before the subsequent beating etc. I watched the trail on Court TV while recovering from surgery. I would not have been a good candidate for the jury as I thought the LEOs were guilty going in. However, after watching the trail with all the evidence I wasn't so sure anymore. In short the defense did an excellent job while the prosecution assumed they had it won from the onset, IMHO. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: " Bad Karma " Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:26:00 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Japanese ranking in FMA > Doce Pares, Modern Arnis... Two more that use > the Dan system for ranking. I did not know this. How did they come to adopt this convention? - -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums ------------------------------ From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Aggro man (fwd) Forwarded on behalf of Marc Denny - ---------------------------------------- A Howl of Greeting to All: Nice cogent posts from Animal, Drew, and Steve Harvey! My take on all this: It is commonly believed by many that man has less instinct than animals. I posit the contrary-- that we have more, and the interplay between this greater panoply of instincts is what makes humans more complex, and this interplay is a major component driving the development of our intelligence. The strength of an instinct is in proportion to its overall need by the animal in question. For example, dogs have a "shake to break the neck of their prey" motion which they can be observed doing in play, even though they do not have to hunt because their food bowl is full every day. This illustrates that instincts WILL discharge-- even in the absence of the eliciting stimuli envisioned by nature-- in this case grabbing a rabbit or other prey and killing it by breaking its neck. Or, to use the analogy I used at the end of DB#1, in the absence of sex, a man will have a nocturnal emission. Aggression is amongst the human instincts and even in the absence of the eliciting stimuli of the eco-system in which the human species evolved, it will build up and discharge anyway, just like the sexual energy that leads to the dream that triggers its release. In both cases, the mind will create eliciting stimuli, out of thin air if necessary. THIS IS A KEY POINT. Thus we must look to the purpose of Aggression in nature. Its purposes are three: 1) Territorial-- to spread a hunting species out so as to not overload the eco-system, 2) Hierarchical-- for rank within a social group. All social animals also have aggression, and 3) for reproductive rights, usually two males over a female or a female in defense of her young. Certainly these energies can and do find discharge in myriad healthy ways in the modern environment, but it must be said that the modern environment is increasingly alien to the one which created the human animal. (For me personally the Amerindian, before the white man came, is the archetypal ideal.) The increasing brutality of war in this century, and the extraordinary numbers of casualties, is a manifestation of this discontinuity. Similarly with regard to the reproductive instinct, in nature (again, think of those Amerindians), there was not a substantial lag between puberty and breeding. In the modern world there often is a lag of 10 or 20 years!!! IMHO much of the "cultural wars" in the US today are about what to do in the face of this fact. Similarly with the expansion of wealth, health, and opportunity due to the growth of freer markets, which by definition are based upon voluntary exchange and not force, less and less human interaction in overtly aggressive-- indeed the free market allows for excellent sublimation of the aggressive instinct (e.g. corporations compete for market share instead of tribes warring for rights to hunting grounds, a man "brings home the bacon" to his family instead of a buffalo, etc). But when aggression does explode, due to technological developments, it is more brutal and total-- witness the wars of this century. Steve Harvey makes several very good points, but to his observations about the violent side of man, I would add that it was not genocidal to the degree that we see in this century-- technology, by allowing us to kill without getting up close and personal, end runs instinctive mechanisms of response to gestures of surrender. He is right about why predators in our society have it so easy (we are too sensitive) thus it seems to me that a most worthy goal of martial art training is to both ground our own aggression in ritual discharge so that we ourselves do not become the problem, and to use the experience of that ritual discharge to be capable in real time of dealing with those who are the problem. I could go on at even further length, but its time to go to swing some sticks. Woof, Crafty Dog PS: On Kim's comments on the Rodney King video: Speaking as an Angeleno who followed the case pretty closely, I would say that it was not a question of desensitizing the jury with repeated viewings, but, of showing the whole thing, which unlike you, is what the Simi Valley jury saw. RK led police on a dangerous high speed pursuit, violently resisted arrest and was unaffected by two taser shots. And when he was finally swarmed to the ground, he kept trying to get up-- so yes they hit him. What of it? The brief clip shown repeatedly by the media was only of the swarming and hitting and lacked the audio of them telling him "Stay down! Stay down!" The brief clip shown by the media had the exact opposite affect of the one you posit-- its repeated showings made its audience, including you, more sensitive. All this blather being spewed out of the great Orwellian blob about violence in the movies etc reminds me of a study several years ago done at the Annenberg School of Communications at the University of Pennsylvania that concluded that violence in the media on the whole made viewers not more violent but more afraid!!! -- which not coincidentally makes is easier for the State to invade our lives and our privacy and claim the right to leave us defenseless sheep with them as our shepherd. The issue is not the violence, but rather its disconnect from understanding the meaning, dynamics and morality of aggression. Instead what we have is the equivalent of hardcore porn flicks-- not to say I've never enjoyed them, but if they are the only impression one receives of human sexuality , , , The same thing with "violence in movies and the media". As we said in the opening quote of DB#1, "The idea is not to imagine figures of light, but to make the darkness conscious." (Carl Jung) Off to the profound joy of swinging sticks. ------------------------------ From: Grappler Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:29:05 -0400 Subject: [none] Regarding low line attacks during knife sparring: If you are consistently finding yourself in a trading situation (I cut you while you cut me) something is certainly wrong! Much like leading with you chin while boxing, you must remember the importance of keeping your guard even while attacking. Getting there first is good, however, you must make sure that the targets are actually worthwhile. I have been cut quite deeply in the leg and found that the pain was quite minimal and the only psychological effect it (the cut) had was that I had gone and ruined another good pair of jeans. As far as positioning goes...it's just like every other athletic endeavor...ya gotta bend your knees and keep your back straight. This will allow evasive footwork as well as explosive attacks. In the same light, How are you attacking? Are you entering with slashes and thrusts? Are you entering off a parried attack? So many questions that change a multitude of variables... Regarding Rob Masson's comments - he is correct on many points! I was there as his low line shots worked..Moving surprisingly quickly for a VERY LARGE man, Rob was able to maintain a low posture and attack high and low very effectively. I look forward to hearing other responses! All the best, Jason M. Silverman Jason M. Silverman Executive Edge Martial Development http://home.earthlink.net/~grappler/ Classes & Seminars Taught at: World Gym - North Quincy 95 Holmes Street North Quincy, Ma 02171 (617) 472-1070 & Tony Cogliandro's Karate Zone 20 Spring Street Saugus, Ma (617) 472-1070 ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:35:56 -0700 Subject: eskrima: James Bowie Part II Here again quoting from Jeff Cooper's "Fireworks": "Shortly after the New Orleans episode, Bowie and his brothers began to smuggle slaves from Jean Lafitte's "robbers' roost" at Galvez Town (Galveston). In the course of an argument with one of the buccaneers, Bowie and his adversary were nailed by their britches, knee to knee, astride a great log and armed with knives. Evidently someone had heard of the young man's feral agility and thought it could be neutralized. But his arms were as good as his legs, and they were again inspired by that lethal mind. The pirate died where he sat. Stay tuned for Part III... KD ------------------------------ From: "Dave Murray" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:37:14 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: "De-sensitization" Military training time is relatively short. A synergy is required, train to do the right thing, desensitization, propaganda, dehumanizing the enemy, everything that might work. But consider that as martial artists, we spend years of our lives practicing "doing the right thing" so our response to violent attack will be sudden, brutal, and without anger or malice. You do the thing because you've done it thousands of times in practice. This is an FMA list, how many times have we all "made that stroke"? I don't think that either the Marines, or martial arts have turned me into a ticking bomb. As a child I was taught about "right and wrong", rather than "relative values". "On Killing" is a good book, but video games are less harmful than a lack of morality. Regards and respect, Dave Murray ------------------------------ From: Grappler Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:57:08 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Master Dong Cuesta Seminar Review Greetings All! This weekend, I was proud to bring Master Arnulfo "Dong" Cuesta to Boston to teach a one day intensive Doce Pares Eskrima workshop. The workshop began with Guro Dong leading the group in doble olisi amarra (Double Stick Twirling) drills. He went through the 4 count horizontal, 4 count vertical, 4 count upward, 6 count vertical, and the 6 count upward. The doble olisi section concluded with doble olisi chako arko drills with passing behind the back and in front of the chest. Moving onto solo olisi (single stick), Guro Dong went through the Tapi-Tapi series building up to the 11 count Tapi-Tapi drill. After the students were comfortable with their checking hands, a review of Doce Pares Abesadario Uno was given. Next came Palakaw (freestyle) sparring exercises to get the students used to the sabayan principle of checking and striking simultaneously. As many of the students had a background in the FMA, the question about some of the energy drills of Doce Pares was asked. In answering, Guro Dong taught Tapi Hubad (Blocking series, and Parrying series). The seminar then moved into the solo olisi disarming section of the workshop. Guro Dong covered 4 variations of disarms from angle 1; Twisting, Hooking / Trapping, Figure 4 (levering), and Punyo Pulling. Those who were comfortable with the basic principles of disarming were taught how to use the different versions in combination against various counters. The baraw (knife) section of the seminar was very educational and fun! The class was taught a basic flow pattern that once learned, served as the vehicle to introduce disarms, locking, takedowns, etc. At this point in the seminar, people started getting "the look". You know the look if you've ever attended a 4 hour workshop that literally bombards you with info. In order to "shut the brain off, and turn the body on", it was time to spar. Guro Dong put the equipment on and proceeded to spar with most everyone in attendance (one at a time, of course). He spent about 30 minutes in the ring of constant sparring! ***The nice thing about this seminar was the fact that there were so many different levels of expertise present and at no time did anyone ever feel that they were either "bored" or "lost". Guro Dong made his way around to everyone during each drill to make sure that they were comfortable with the information or to give them some extra goodies! For those who have only seen a limited amount of Doce Pares Eskrima, I encourage you to give it a try. You won't be dissapointed! All the best, Jason M. Silverman Jason M. Silverman Executive Edge Martial Development North Quincy, Massachusetts Grappler@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~grappler/ ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 05:05:32 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Leo Fong Joe (?) wrote: >Leo Fong...Anyone know or have any other >info on him? >From a couple of old Black Belt mags I have read that he wrote "Si (Siu) Lum Kung Fu" and "Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu" back in the early 70's...I understand that he also starred in a Kungfu movie shot in the Phil. in the 70's...I think he was also (among other things) a Baptist minister... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "anthony gagliardo" Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:57:23 PDT Subject: eskrima: Laban Tulisan Eskrima What is Laban Tulisan Eskrima? Laban Tulisan is short for Panlaban Sa Tulisan. This means "The way of fighting the bandits". Pillagers, marauders, etc. dwelled in the mountain ranges of the Philippines. They robbed farmers of their harvest and plundered little towns and barrios. The farmers would ready themselves for combat before the harvest season. Hence the name Laban Tulisan. Basically, Laban Tulisan is a bolo system. Its range is pretty much medium to close. Originally Laban Tulisan had five basic angles. Presently, we practice with eight basic angles. Of all the basics, emphasis is always footwork. Laban Tulisan training is based on multiple attackers. As Master Ner always says "you train as if you have more than one to entertain..." A practitioner usually works out on his own, mastering his moves and sharpening his skills. The student progresses with his footwork learning to slash or thrust with the bolo. The basics you learn in fighting start with a 1-2-3 counterstrike, then finishing with a thrust or slash. The learning progression continues in the hope that the movements will minimize to one counter and then the final blow will be a slash or thrust. Where did Laban Tulisan come from? Gregorio Romulo("Amang Guyo") in the town of Luisiana, in the province of Laguna, often vanished from Luisiana for at least six months to live and serve some of the best eskrimadors from the neighboring towns, and learn from them their system of "fighting the bandits". When Amang Guyo returned home, he religiously practice in the afternoons and sometimes all night for weeks to master the new skills learned. Estaban Reodica("Amang Teban") passed his system down to his sons. He sent his eldest, Ner Cesario, to Amang Guyo to study and master this unique system. Ner trained with Amang Guyo for 20 years. In his early 20's, Ner C. Reodica, Sr. vemtured the islands of Visayas and Mindinao where he met and practiced with various eskrimadors, including loggers in Lanao and the security officers of the Palawan Penal Colony, where he worked as an auditor for the establishments. Amang Guyo passed the system down to his sons Leonardo and Bayani Romulo. Ner Sr. passed it down to his son Ner Jr. Leonardo "Narding" Romulo was last known living with his family in Mandaluyang, Rizal. Bayani Romulo until recently, was mostly known for his suntukan skills. He still resides in Luisiana, Laguna with his family. My instructor Ner Reodica, Jr. was born in Sampolic, Manila. He started his training at the age of six. In his middle teens to his early 20's, he experienced numerous encounters on the streets of Manila involving various of weapons. His skills and abilities in streetfighting were well known in his hometown. Ner Reodica, Jr. now resides in California. He is still practicing the system and instructing a select few. He has become a counselor and advisor to all his students that continue to train and keep in touch with him. He advocates in a good, moral, and having a peaceful life, yet teaching us to be street smart. I will continue my part of this story another time. I hope this piece was interesting to read and not boring. Thank you for your time, and thank you Ray for posting it...ciao... Anthony T. Gagliardo _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:08:41 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #210 >>The average age (of WW2 soldiers) was almost 5 years younger (than those in Viet Nam)<< Being that the average age of Viet Nam soldiers was 19, that would make the average WW2 participant...14!?!? Kim ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:32:14 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #210 I hope I don't step on any toes here, (buuuuttt, probably will, so what the hell, here goes...), but whenever a discussion on "knife fighting, knife defense," etc. ad naseum comes up, I really would like for some contributor to be honest enough to step up and say,..."Geez, although we train with wooden/aluminum knives in class, and I know lots and lots of drills, I've never been in a real, blood and guts knife fight, so we probably should defer this question to someone who has been there." If you ever have the opportunity to listen to someone who has faced a knife and lived, and seen the horrible wounds a knife produces, a lot of the discussions based on theory and experimentation will go right out the window. I am not recommending that anyone go out and get in a knife fight, but please, don't discuss what you don't know!!! I don't care how many drills you do, how realistic you think training with artificial weapons is, the real thing ain't nothing like what is being discussed here. Chances are you won't even know you were cut until it's over (I didn't, and I lost a fair amount of blood), and knife wounds are not instantly debilitating. I heard it said once that when two tigers fight, one dies and one is maimed for life. That is a knife fight in a nutshell. The best you can hope for is to survive with most body parts still functioning (knives tear the hell out of vital blood vessels, and tendons). I am not saying that all that drilling won't help (it will to a degree, but skill is only a part of it) but you better be prepared to fight while slipping around in your own blood, all the while trying to stop you opponent from inflicting any more damage (that is what happened to me, my attacker's arms were covered with my blood, and it was hard to get a grip on their arm...incidentally, my attacker was a young woman in a psych ward). There are still some of the guys from the old days around, men whose life depended on not only their skill, but their guts. Seek them out, and talk to them...it will be an eye opener. Kim ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:50:56 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Tom Bisio in Venice Tom Bisio will be in Venice in June. He would like to meet practitioners of the internal arts and eskrima, as well as practitioners of the old Italian rapier and dagger methods in the Veneto Region. He is also available to teach the San Miguel Eskrima (Old Style Doce Pares) of Filemon "Momoy" Canete and Xing Yi Chuan and Ba Gua Zhang. Phone in Venice after June 8th: 5221340. Thanks, Patty Burkhalter ------------------------------ From: Tom Skoglind Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:07:03 -0500 Subject: eskrima: re: FMA mag The e-mail contact for FMA Magazine is: EShea76448@aol.com. I believe his name is Eliot Shearer - he responds very quickly to e-mail and is extremely helpful. Tom Skoglind tskoglin@schmitt-title.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:36:08 EDT Subject: eskrima: knife fighting >>Kevin, Sounds like you are already learning the first lesson of Knife=20 Fights... You=20 are going to get cut.=85 Regards, Rob Masson<< Has anyone had any experience with or gone to one of the Cold Steel knife=20 fighting trainings? Their "system" is called "Cut and Don't be Cut" and is=20 based on the principle that proximity and action negate and overcome=20 technique and reaction. I _believe_ it is primarily a method that emphasize= s=20 distance (duh) and striking first. They don't believe that, in a knife figh= t=20 where both parties are armed, that you will necessarily get cut . . .=20 assuming you do it right (i.e., their way). Not having attended one of their seminars, I am not able to evaluate it and = I=20 thought someone on this list might. Sincerely, JohnO Student of the Defensor Method and Remy Presas' Modern Arnis ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:47:52 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Leo Fong's CV Hello, all! In reference to Leo Fong, the bit of info that I know is that he has worked with, and works with, George Dillman, Wally Jay, and Remy Presas. The big thing about those gentlemen is that they often do triple (sometimes quadruple) seminars, with each person getting about 1 1/2 to 2 hours in their specialty (Okinawan Pressure Point fighting, Small Circle Jujitsu, Modern Arnis, and some form of Wing-Chun derived Kung Fu). It lends an interesting blur to each of their styles; for example, Remy will incorporate a Pressure point knockout into his sinawali motions, and Leo will bring in the triangle footwork of Modern Arnis. It's a neat partnership, and each of them must have learned a bunch from the others. I've met Leo a couple of times (my claim to fame at my school is that I've had each of the grandmasters throw me around; apparently, I sell their techniques really well!! :) ). Anyways, Leo is a very warm, gentle man, with some really great zoning and blocking principles; he has a great time both training and teaching, and it shows. Hope that helped a bit, Mike Worth ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 11:12:57 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #210 from:leighans@aol.com enough with the vet stats....stop trashing a group who were willing to give the supreme sacrifice, even if they didnt believe in it wholeheartedly...they deserve our respect, not our stats on suicide and homelessness ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #211 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.