From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #214 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 20 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 214 In this issue: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from [QMA4U@webtv.net (Q.M.A. (fwd) eskrima: Cold Steel knife training eskrima: On Kiling eskrima: Re: Bridging the gap eskrima: Re: Ring of Steel eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #213 eskrima: Training for reality eskrima: Cool weapons in cool movies... eskrima: video and overcoming inhibitors eskrima: knife stuff Re: eskrima: On Kiling eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from [QMA4U@webtv.net (Q.M.A. (fwd) Forwarding. (1) I believe you are subscribed as sandra697@webtv.net. Please correct. (2) Please do not "shout" (use all upper case) in your e-mail msgs. Thanks. Ray - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Subject: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from [QMA4U@webtv.net (Q.M.A. CROSS-TRAINING CTR)] From: QMA4U@webtv.net (Q.M.A. CROSS-TRAINING CTR) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:19:13 -0400 (EDT) To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: RE: ESKRIMA HELLO EVERYONE, KINDA NEW TO THE LIST, AND HAVE INJOYED READING SOME OF THE TOPIC'S YOU GUYS HAVE BROUGHT UP... A QUESTION FOR YOU INSTRUCTORS OUT THERE..... ARE THERE ANY QUALIFIED INSTRUCTORS OUT HERE IN KENTUCKY TEACHING THE PHILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS ? OR AM I THE ONLY ONE? WOULD LIKE TO NETWORK WITH A FEW OUT HERE IN THE MIDWEST AREAS... Sandra Sabatini Sifu/Guro QMACTC *************************************************Log-On to the new Quantum Martial Arts Cross-Training Centre Web-Site @ : QMACROSSTRAINING.COM Your Location for the best in Mix-Martial Arts Cross Training. Group & Private Instruction,Celebrity M.A. Seminars,& Supplies......... ************************************************* UP-AN-RUNNING OCT. 1ST 1999 ************************************************* ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Doro Hironaka" Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:55:42 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Cold Steel knife training Like a lot of people on this list, I have seen the President of Cold Steel and some of his employees fight at the Gatherings. I was not impressed. While there can always be something learned, I personally would look else where. Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Doro Hironaka" Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:16:00 -0700 Subject: eskrima: On Kiling There has been quite a bit of talk on killing and the effects it has on a person psycologically lately. I haven't done any research or anything like that , but I do know how it has effected me. During the Gulf War I was involved in several battles. I never shot anybody up close and I don't know for sure how many people I might have killed, but I am sure it was a few. I only killed one person up close. I was on a bunker clearing team during the cease fire because I spoke a little Arabic. Two Iraqui's came out of one of the bunkers. One took one look at us and ran back inside. The other obeyed my commands and knelt down with his hands on his head. We knew the soldier in the bunker was armed with at least an AK because it was in his hands when we last saw him. There was no way we were going in after him.I told him to come out. His partner told him to come out. He would not. I then pulled out a grenade. As I pulled the pin the Iraqi soldier outside began to cry and plead that I stop. I released the spoon and counted to 2. Time was in slow motion. I tossed the grenade inside and dove on the ground, the Earth shook. When I looked inside there were pieces everywhere. I didn't think about it for a long time. I think now the thing that really bothered me the most is that it didn't bother me. All of the movies that we see are about the disillusioned soldier who comes home and his conscience is killing him because of the war. I was fine with it. What was bothering me was that I was not effected the way I thought I should be. I have since come to terms with it. I went to war because my country told me to. Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:20:36 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Bridging the gap Chris H. > I realize that there will always be a gap between training and reality. I am looking for insight into how to effectively minimize that gap. There are certain factors which surely must be experienced to be understood...and I honestly hope I never experience them. Peace to all who have. I struggle with this also and I found Peyton Quinn and his Realistic Fighting Scenarios. Looks like a good place to start but I haven't made it down there yet myself... Ted Truscott "the fighting old man" ------------------------------ From: "J H" Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:46:37 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Ring of Steel Ha! Finally, I meet someone else who has seen that movie! It's kind of funny. It's a neat idea, though. Mabuhay Ang Eskrima! Fry Bread Boy _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "brian and kathy" Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:45:05 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #213 > >From: "Marc Denny" >Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:33:39 -0700 >Subject: eskrima: Aggro Man, part 3 > > Although there is certainly room for disagreement, I believe that you are >misinformed about Amerindians BEFORE THE WHITE MAN CAME. Although I have >seen contrary writings, it is my understanding that scalping was originated >by the white man as a form of proof before paying a bounty on killing of >Amerindians. It is my semi-informed opinion that "warfare" amongst the >Amerindians was far less brutal and homicidal that European warfare. >Whereas the English deliberately gave smallpoxed blankets to uhh, I think >it may have been Seneca and the Mohawks (not sure on this but I know the >case of which I am thinking was in New York) in order to wipe them out, >Amerindian "war" rarely if ever sought genocide and even included the >concept of "counting coup" wherein a great act of warrior bravery was >coupled with NOT taking life. > As this seem's to be turning into a history list I would just like to point out that the USA was engaged in wars with the indigenous native American population well into the 1800's.It would be hard to blame anyone else but the USA for these conflict's. It is also not accurate to always use the name English when speaking of the British empire, as even in the day's of that ludicrously inaccurate fantasy movie Braveheart there were many Scottish and Welsh and Irish lord's and Royalty in the British empire hierarchy. While we are on the subject of history can someone tell me what on earth America thought they were accomplishing in Vietnam. What could be more brutal and homicidal than dropping millions of ton's of bomb's, agent orange,napalm cluster bomb's and mine's on peasant farmer's,men,women and children? This is not a criticism of vet's in general as these poor soul's have my greatest sympathy after being drafted into a homicidal war by an insane government. BTW do you realise that people in England are getting totally pissed off with the bad guy's on ludicrous American movies always being English. Sorry for the rant.But I had to answer. Brian ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Training for reality This is a branch from the knife training thread. Training can only take you to a certain level ... period. I think we all know that. The position some people take, though, wherein "experience is better than training" is erroneous to a certain extent. Experience is a wonderful teacher, but I certainly don't want to experience a real fight every day. I do train nearly every day, though. Also, to talk to a survivor is a wonderful way to gain a "what if" scenario to think about ... but it's probably not going to do you a lot of good if you get involved in a similar situation. Every situation is different. I've had 3 guns pulled on me and they were all under very different circumstances and the evoked different reactions from me (internally if not externally). When I was mugged, I handed my money over and got pissed about it later. There was nothing I could have done about it, but I was still pissed. When the store I was managing got robbed, I handed over the store's money and never gave it a second thought ... it wasn't a personal attack on me. When a guy pulled a gun in the car next to me on the interstate, I did some creative driving and managed to get away from him without being shot at. In all three situations, I remained calm on the outside ... but on the inside there were extremely different things going on from situation to situation. If I relate the experiences I had from when the store got robbed, for instance, and you analyze them and learn from them ... good. But, the chances of you having a situation that is exactly like the one I had are pretty slim. There are so many variables that it's not possible to guess how a different course of action on any of the participant's parts would have affected the outcome. I feel that it is important to train ... and to learn from experiences of others. You can *never* be fully prepared when violent situations arise. The key is to be as prepared as you can and hopefully it will be enough that you can at least survive the situation ... or, if fate is on your side, control the situation and walk away relatively unscathed ("relatively" is the key word there). Mike === Mike Casto Assistant Instructor Asian Fighting Arts Filipino Kali/ 5099 Springboro Pike Indonesian Pentjak Silat Dayton, OH 45439 Phone: (937) 293-5520 URL: http://www.guild-hall.com/afa/ _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:20:16 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Cool weapons in cool movies... Hey, all.... Believe it or not, I actually am putting the new Star Wars film "The Phantom Menace" up there, for one fighting sequence; The ending fight between Darth Maul and the two Jedi (Liam and Ewan) was phenomenal!! Not only was it very fast and crisp, but there was a *very* FMA flavor to the way that the Jedi used their blades; even though the reports indicate that the choreographer was not using FMA in his choreography, the continuous nature of the strikes, combined with the fluid footwork, made me think of Arnis or Kali. Compare The Phantom Menace's techniques to the short, choppy, fencing strokes of Ben Kenobi vs. Darth Vader in Star Wars: A New Hope, and you'll see what I mean. I distinctly remember seeing some Abaniko-esque flurries, some figure-8 flows, and a lot of horizontal Redondas (or Bacalau's) and Floretes incorporated with spinning footwork (if that image makes any sense). Anyways, just an interesting observation about the New Star Wars movie... :) Mike Worth ------------------------------ From: John Pellitteri Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:11:11 -0700 Subject: eskrima: video and overcoming inhibitors Subject: eskrima: Quake emotions > On Tue, 18 May 1999 Ray Terry wrote: > The ~20% number is from WWI. ~40% in WWII. ~50% in the 'Korean Conflict'. ~90% in Vietnam. Or something along those lines... Ingo wrote: > If this is true, it tells us that the video game theory is bunk: the first id 3D-slaughter game, Castle Wolfenstein, appeared on the market in the mid 80s, if I remember correctly. That's long after the Vietnam war.< I'm assuming that you're assuming that "the video game theory" is something along the lines of "video games cause violence/lead to violence/make people aggressive." I assume this because the rest of your post argues that quake players are less violent vs. general public. BTW, the video training wasn't on popular video games, just the medium was the same. I don't think anyone has posited that Quake (or other video games) necessarily equals a predisposition, or an increased incidence of violence. Rather, a desensitization and, as my post argued, a dissociation that allows humans who don't think of themselves as killers ...to kill. >>If there is a measurable effect induced by playing Quake-type games, and I'm always _very_ sceptical about results of any psychological experiment,<< Just skeptical in general, or do you have a particular study in mind? Skeptical of the results even if the study is sound? Just a bias against psychology, or any experiments? > I don't think it's connected much to an emotional > disconnection from the act of killing. The simulation quality of even > Quake 3 Arena is very far from allowing the virtual experience of mass > murder. What I can see happening is the setting up of reaction >patterns (see a movement, aim, shoot) which may be triggered in a real >life combat situation _before_ the emotional response is inhibiting the >killing. I'm not sure what you mean, so I'm having difficulty addressing this point. I play Quake, and it seems very much like "the virtual experience of mass murder" if, by "virtual" you're talking about computers. Also, I think that "reaction patterns" - if you're talking about muscle memory, re-training reflex arcs, etc. - of playing computer games versus doing martial arts are connected in only the slightest. In other words, there's nothing that can be postitively transferred, physically, from the act of mouse movement to martial arts. What can be transferred, IMO, is ability to remove yourself from your acts, thereby allowing you to perform acts you had heretofore, psychologically, been unable to do i.e. killing someone. As to whether the "connection to disconnection" exists, I think the studies that Mr. Terry is referencing indicates this unarguably. It is simply a fact that the number of soldiers who fired their weapons increased after the video training...there has to be a reason, don't you think? > My personal take on the emotional side of Quake type games, at least > when played online against other human beings, is that they are more > of a flashback into childhood than anything else. It has the flavor of > a "cowboys and indians" game where instead of screaming "bang, bang, > you are dead" you have to point the mouse and click. (snip) - this > _is_ a child's game, just played online by adults with rocket > launchers... I get your drift, and I don't want to sound like some kind of flower child (because I'm far from it) but there's an argument that "cowboys and indians" ...well, never mind. I do see a difference...but again, I'm not trying to draw any kind of causal relationship, just a theory about how one overcomes the inhibition to kill I would also > like to point out that the average online Quaker is a university student > or a person in a high tech job. Those are hardly the people with high > averages of physical violence and I certainly never felt even remotely > threatened at Quake LAN partys, except perhaps concerning the question > whether there would be enough beer... I'm prepared to bet that the > crime rate of the >1 million online Quakers is sub-average and > particularily so > concerning acts of physical violence. > > Ingo > - --- Again, no one's attacking Quake players, or calling them violent. Thanks for your comments, John Pellitteri ------------------------------ From: Danny Alvendia Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: knife stuff I have mixed feelings about teaching knife techniques because I have never been in a knife fight to test such techniques, etc... However, training with the use of the knife, etc .. is still beneficial, because maybe, just maybe, that deflection you kept on practicing, the body angling, etc... may just be enough to give you time to run and save your life. Many times knife techniques (defense) are much too flashy and takes too long to pull off. I like Animal's monkey technique against the knife. "Throw anything, everything at him. Keep him away from you". That is real, simple and quite effective. True knife story: Last night my wife received a call from the Philippines and was told her cousin got stabbed together with a friend. Her cousin died instantly from a stab at the back that pierced his heart. (That was what we were told) Apparently a bunch of addicts accosted them after they left the bar. Words were exchanged, per the eyewitnesses, then the cousin and friend headed for their car. One of the addicts called out to him, he turned around and another guy snuck up from behind and stabbed him. No technique would have saved him from that. Such a waste of life. For the most part, the people who want to knife you will not give you time to see the knife. They will distract you or sneak up on you. I remember one time a bunch of us were training with knife applications, etc ... then one day, one of our training partners just went crazy and attacked us with the wooden knife, etc ... he planned it that way and wanted to see how effective our techniques were. IF that had been a real knife, you would not be reading this now from me. - -- Danny Alvendia dannya@3com.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:51:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: On Kiling > with it. I went to war because my country told me to. > > Joe Hironaka Joe, Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:58:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #214 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.