From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #215 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 20 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 215 In this issue: eskrima: Training for hard times eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #214 eskrima: Pananandata Rope Fighting eskrima: Re: Cool weapons in cool movies... eskrima: IESA in Reno eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #213 eskrima: Knife defense eskrima: Newbie question eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #214 eskrima: Re: Human instincts BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from ["BILL MCGRATH" (fwd) eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1050 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:53:37 EDT Subject: eskrima: Training for hard times Greetings from the gallery: On the subject of training effectively for combat, here come a few observations, based on experience from about thirty years in martial arts training. My lessons in this area of human interaction began in the Army, in prep for Viet Nam vacations. I wanted to go--young and stupid. Certainly, the training for combat then desensitized us, and without video games. I don't think of it as desensitization; more so a re-ordering of one's personal reality. When you know you're heading for the hunting ground, being receptive to brainwashing is a survival tactic. We had to trust the drill sargeants' objective was to teach us to stay alive, although it seemed they wanted to kill us beforehand, sometimes.... One's background always matters. Some trainees simply went into shock due to physical "abuse": these were guys who had never done hard physical labor, and were being forced to learn their physical limits. As a crash course, this can be rough. Luckily, I grew up on a farm, and entered service in good shape. Still kicked my a**, but it didn't freak me. It was Vince Lombardi who said (?paraphrased): "Fatigue makes cowards of us all." If you don't have the physical conditioning work done, do it. And keep it. You have probably experienced that sinking feeling, when sparring, of noting: "gee, this guy is still burning, and I'm out of gas." When the wind is gone, soon after it's all gone. Fixing this aspect is easy: run, bagwork, skip rope, rapid footwork drills allied with hand work--whatever. Next step is learning the basics of some style, learning how to put power into the moves, and learning how to move WITH another opponent. Even if a person is trying to hurt you, that person, for that time, is your partner in life. Opposition works sometimes; other times, flowing with the moment and the movement does. You need to discover those few movements that your body "likes". These are the ones that you usually score with. You only need a few. There are more techniques out there than you have time. Zero into quality movement, and make those moves yours. The rule of thumb is 3-5 thousand reps to "hardwire" a physical movement. I find offense easier to hardwire than defense. This is probably because offensive moves give a time advantage. Use it. Once one has the physical side hardwired, the hard (?) part follows. Your body may know the moves, but the brain / consiousness controls it, more or less. You want MORE here! Fighting is a psychological event. A recent posting, re: the Dog Brothers' style of training, noted how hard contact has a way of revealing how quickly attributes can disappear under attack. Well stated. The best training I've run across, relative to extablishing and maintaining a truly workable fighting mindset, comes from the Chinese internal arts. I'm talking men like William Chen, Peter Ralston, Stuart Olsen. These teachers are all in print, and worth reading--especially Ralston, whose writing on the subject can occupy anyone for a lifetime (that's one book). Probably these mental principles are taught in many arts. Tai Chi Chuan is where I found them. It seems most Tai Chi teachers do not know, or teach, the combative aspects. Too bad. Peter Ralston states an essential "root" principle in precise, concise fashion: "Hand up, you down." This means always "sinking", always maintaining your root into the earth. It's easy, and natural, to sink when performing downward movements. Hardwire that feeling, that "movement", when arms and weapons are moving upward, as well. Connect with the ground, and learn to "hit them with the ground." I've been working on this statement for fifteen years, and am still learning. How to train for real violence? Train the best way you can, and keep looking and learning. This does not mean adding more physical techniques, endlessly. Can't find it now, but a recent issue of American Handgunner had an article about the question of adrenaline "dump", as it affects physical performance. An MD shot a specified course of fire--one that factored both time and accuracy (speed and fine motor skills) in scoring. Then, he injected himself with adrenalin (or noradrenalin, or whatever) and repeated the course. Surprisingly, his score was better with the adrenalin. One would expect accuracy would fall off here, what with the drug inducing "the shakes." Doesn't take much shake to ruin pistol accuracy. What this test did not include was the reality factor: no one was shooting back. Surely you have played poker. Have you played high-stakes poker? It's a very different game. What's the difference? The amount you risk losing, and the possible payoff. The physical game never changes. The change is all in the player's head. Try it sometime, with way more money than you can afford to lose. At worst, you end up paying for a valuable lesson. The closest feeling I've had, reminiscent of the emotions and physical reactions attendant to combat, have occurred in automobiles. Next time you come within a few inches of a collision, take note of your body sensations, your heartbeat, your mental state. You've just had a brush with the dark side; make it a lesson learned. I certainly notice an adrenaline dump on these occasions. If you make contact here, good luck! Read something here recently bemoaning the relative dearth of FMA instructors in the Midwest. I'm in Des Moines, Iowa. And I have a day job. I teach what I believe works in combat, culled from several karate styles, Northern Shaolin, TKD (knock this? not me), Yang and Hao Tai Chi Chuan, and Modern Arnis. After a few decades, one comes to realise it's all the same stuff--just different takes on reality. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as long as you get the job done. I appreciate this public forum, and the efforts of all readers and students. Go with the flow Randy Fey 2nd degree BB Modern Arnis OK to print my E-mail address ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #214 << HELLO EVERYONE, KINDA NEW TO THE LIST, AND HAVE INJOYED READING SOME OF THE TOPIC'S YOU GUYS HAVE BROUGHT UP... A QUESTION FOR YOU INSTRUCTORS OUT THERE..... ARE THERE ANY QUALIFIED INSTRUCTORS OUT HERE IN KENTUCKY TEACHING THE PHILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS ? OR AM I THE ONLY ONE? WOULD LIKE TO NETWORK WITH A FEW OUT HERE IN THE MIDWEST AREAS... Sandra Sabatini Sifu/Guro QMACTC >> There's a guy named Scott Eliot who runs a school in Richmond, KY called AFS (I can't remember what the acronym stands for ... it's ___ Fighting Systems). Anyway, he's primarily WC/JFJKD, but he's certified by Dan Inosanto and does some FMA ... though I'm not sure how much. There's a school in Cincinnati (Reading specifically) that, again, is primarily JFJKD, but does some FMA (they're affiliated strongly with Richard Bustillo) called Reading Academy of Martial Arts. The school where I train is in Dayton, Ohio (about an hour north of Cincinnati). We pretty much exclusively do FMA/IMA, but many of us also cross-train (personally, I do some cross training in JFJKD and Shootfighting). Mike === Mike Casto Assistant Instructor Asian Fighting Arts Filipino Kali/ 5099 Springboro Pike Indonesian Pentjak Silat Dayton, OH 45439 Phone: (937) 293-5520 URL: http://www.guild-hall.com/afa/ _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: James Farthing Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:33:45 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Pananandata Rope Fighting I remember a thread about this book quite a while back. Did anybody ever find it for sale anywhere etc. because i'd quite like to get hold of a copy - sounds like a good book. Thanks, - -- James Farthing jamesf@cqms.demon.co.uk JFarthing@colt-telecom.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:33:57 -0300 (ADT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Cool weapons in cool movies... > The ending fight between Darth Maul and the two Jedi (Liam and Ewan) was > phenomenal!! Not only was it very fast and crisp, but there was a *very* > FMA flavor to the way that the Jedi used their blades; even though the > reports indicate that the choreographer was not using FMA in his > choreography, the continuous nature of the strikes, combined with the fluid > footwork, made me think of Arnis or Kali. Compare The Phantom Menace's > techniques to the short, choppy, fencing strokes of Ben Kenobi vs. Darth > Vader in Star Wars: A New Hope, and you'll see what I mean. I distinctly > remember seeing some Abaniko-esque flurries, some figure-8 flows, and a lot > of horizontal Redondas (or Bacalau's) and Floretes incorporated with > spinning footwork (if that image makes any sense). I agree with Mike. It is an awesome movie and great fighting scene. According to the StarWar website, Liam and Ewan were well training enough to go free form in the movie. It is very fast. can't wait to see the slow mo on video. At one point, Darth Maul's two ended light saber was cut in half, could you imagine if he ended up with two light sabers, one in each hand, using sinawali techniques. I would trade a million Eskrima sticks for two eskrima light sabers. Peter Lee ------------------------------ From: Bob Manalo Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: IESA in Reno Just a quick blurb... IESA will be taking part in the Asian Festival this coming weekend in Reno. The Festival will be taking place in the Silver Legacy/El Dorado/Circus Circus area and covers all different nationalities in Asia and the Pacific and Malay regions. There will be a parade tomorrow and demonstrations of the martial arts, cultural dances, and so on throughout the weekend. IESA will be representing the Pilipino Art of Eskrima Serrada on Saturday between 6 and 8 p.m. I don't know the specifics, but if you're up there, I'm sure you won't have a hard time finding the festivities. Peace, Bob Manalo, Jr. Advanced Guro IESA _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:24:45 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #213 Jester, >>I don't mean to slight you in any way<< Hey, don't worry about it...no offense taken. You will have to go a whole lot farther thatn that to piss me off. >>Not many of them (old timers) left<< That is the sad truth, my friend. Too many of the old masters are gone, and with them goes a frame of mind, a sense of pride, and the ability to actually see the embodiment of one's art that I'm afraid we will lose. There are a few guys around, guys like Mike Inay, who were students of these guys, and are carrying on the art in a way that those who have passed on would be proud. I don't know the Sayoc (sp?) family, but I hear nothing but good things about them. And then there's guys like Tony Diego and Chris Ricketts in the PI, students of Tatang Ilustrisimo. The connection to the old days is there, we just have to seek them out. But then, isn't that what being a warrior is all about...going out and looking for answers, instead of waiting for them to come to us? Kim ------------------------------ From: Edwin Tam Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:56:20 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Knife defense I've been reading the posts on this subject with great interest. Like everyone, I want to maximize my chances of survivng a knife attack. I've also been in situations where people ask me how to train to survive knife attacks. (Should you just say nothing, if you haven't actually been a knife attack survivor? This would spare you the dilemna of teaching something you might not know for sure will work. Should you answer with "That situation is so dangerous, it's not even worth training for. It's like asking how to train to survive being shot at with a gun."? I've heard this, and it seemed defeatist.) So how do we get realistic ideas for training against a knife? Ideally, you would 1) train with someone who has survived actual knife confrontations 2) learn what they found helped them survive (presuming it wasn't just sheer luck) 3) practice these routines/drills 4) try it out in "real" situations. Then you could really be confident that you have fair idea of how to survive a knife attack, and maybe pass on this knowledge. Some comments on each of these steps (some of it rehashed from previous posts): 1) Some have argued that if your instructor doesn't have personal experience in facing a life-death blade attack, then it's practically useless learning from them. Trouble is, it's difficult finding people who have walked the walk in this way. In fact, I'm sure some people/instructors are survivors precisely because they had the skills/knowledge to avoid getting into a situation where they were attacked by a weapon. The only person I ever met who actually got into (and "won") a "knife fight" was an ex-con, and he wasn't giving out lessons. Given the relative shortage of battle-tested instructors, most of us will have to make do with reading books by gentlemen such as Peyton Quinn, and Animal MacYoung, or watching videos like "Surviving Edged Weapons" . The other thing would be to choose a martial art that is relatively new off the battlefield, so that the rationale behind drills is still fresh in the mind of the instructors. The further each generation gets from battle-tested knowledge, the more dilute it will probably become. 2) Of the three people I've met who've been in confrontation unarmed against a person wielding a sharp object, two were pretty much just thankful that they weren't hurt seriously. Neither were martial artists, so couldn't really say much apart from describing how they were attacked and how panicky it was. (Of note, there was NO waving around of the weapon before the actual attack...) So there weren't any moves to actually learn from them. The third guy did have training, the weapon (scissors) was in plain sight, and he managed a disarm. 3) The guy who pulled off the disarm obviously benefited from the drills he'd learned. So drills, while of perhaps of limited usefulness, are not necessarily completely useless. How can we make sure that the drills are training us to do safe maneuvers? Almost any move can work given the right circumstance (witness the girl kicking the knife out of the robber's hand), but which ones are higher percentage ones? Many of us will never reach a point where the one ideal option out of thousands will flow out of us from a "no mind state": many of us will only be able to react with the drill that we've trained most in. So, what do we want our reflexes generally to be when actually attacked? Our answer will be based on the experiences of those who originated our particular style, tempered by our abilities and our own assessment of what we will be facing. If you're most likely to face surprise attacks, then some of your drills should involve recreating that as much as possible in class. If you tend to face dangerous situations in tight spaces, then you should modify your responses accordingly. Train to use your environment to help you survive and escape: chairs, tables, jackets, clipboards, whatever. Don't train as if a guy with a knife can only attack you one way: train against different grips, lines of attack, stabs and slashes. Train to keep going even after the guy scores a hit, because in real life you can sometimes survive multiple stabs. If you're really bored, do some controlled drills against a live blade just to get the adrenalin flowing see if you can operate with this heightened level of danger. I don't know if you can really desensitize yourself to the sight of blood, especially your own (that description of slipping in your own blood posted by Kim was chilling): might this be the one useful thing about gory horror films? Training instant response to an unpredictable attack can sometimes be achieved by having the person close their eyes, and only opening them when the instructor yells "GO!" as he begins his attack. Another variation is to have the student in the center of a ring of armed students, who randomnly rush him one at a time with an unspecified attack. Of course real life will be different from what you've imagined, but if you can reduce the gap just a bit, then there's a better chance of surviving. 4) I give up on looking for real life experience, because testing my knowledge in the real world can get me real dead, real quick. I've heard of people going into bars to test empty hand skills, but knife skills? It'd be suicidal. There are probably some real gung-ho practitioners out there willing to take this stuff to the streets, or maybe some soldiers will need to use it, but most of us are praying that we never have to be tested this way. I don't see anything wrong with being an armchair theorist, or "master of sparring situations" as long as we don't misrepresent ourselves as having walked the walk. To those who have walked it, more power to you, and I'd love to hear what you have to say. Maybe the lessons you've learned will save my life one day... In the end, this is like the soldier training before seeing live fire, or fire drills without real fire, or CPR on a mannequin. But it's the best we've got. ------------------------------ From: "R. Huijssoon" Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:12:26 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Newbie question Hi there, Since a few weeks I've been practicing Eskrima-Kali-Arnis in the Netherlands, after practicing judo for about 9 years. The " problem " I have is this: I think I'm very susceptible of a blow to the body (well, probably the head as well...;-) ). How do you train for this? Is it mostly mentality? If I'll take a light blow during training for example on the liver I just feel real lousy: I'd probaly go down in a real fight. Should I just train for more muscle (like the abdomen)? with situps and stuff? In judo there is no taking hits or blows, so this is a whole new " experience " for me! Hope someone here casn give me a serious training tip Sincerely, Ruud ------------------------------ From: "Cartlon H. Fung,D.D.S." Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:33:03 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #214 > A QUESTION FOR YOU INSTRUCTORS OUT THERE..... > ARE THERE ANY QUALIFIED >INSTRUCTORS OUT HERE IN KENTUCKY TEACHING THE PHILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS ? >OR AM I THE ONLY ONE? Interesting post. What is qualified? On a different note there are multiple posts on training gap and experience level: >> I realize that there will always be a gap between training and >reality. I am looking for insight into how to effectively minimize that >gap. >Training can only take you to a certain level ... >period. I think we all know that. >Experience is a wonderful teacher, but >I feel that it is important to train ... and to learn >from experiences of others. You can *never* be fully >prepared when violent situations arise. All good points. The original post I think was something of a question of what to train. The real answer is that the best trained learns to go about his life the way he wants without getting into trouble via many techniques one of which is awareness and tactful use of his environment. Would you rather carry a big stick passed a dark doorway or would you rather just walk closer toward the street while keeping your eye on the doorway? Which is the obvious ambush deterant? The best doctors listen to their patients before they treat. Doctors are trained then practice their craft. They never have a business like a shoe store they have a "practice". Thus you gain experience to go with your training. The result is "efficiency". You all learned to tie your shoes when you were about 5. Now you can tie your shoes while talking on the phone...efficiency...the tie job really isn't any better. Finally, luck and experience are no substitute for good training. Ask anyone who trades stocks for a living if their succeess is due to the luck of the experience or due to the education they derive while trying to attain success. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Ingo Bojak Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:04:31 +0200 (DFT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Human instincts On Thu, 20 May 1999 Marc Denny wrote: > I think I understand Ingo's point, but am not sure he understands mine. > I do. I disagree. You are basically saying: well, whatever I do, I do it for some reason and ultimately it will be some "instinct" driving me. But it would be more proper to speak of an urge or drive. By instinctive behaviour we usually mean a less fuzzy behavioural pattern - for example the alpha dog attacks and the beta dog flips on the back and bares its throat. Or statements like "Well, I saw that thing flying towards me and I instinctively ducked, which saved my life." > But rarely without limitation or consequence. You can pull a rubber band, > but not indefinitely. Ultimately it will snap or snap back. > Indeed. But humans can pull it _very_ far with little effort compared to other animals. > Perhaps because if one bothers to get educated and develop one's career etc > first then one's offspring have a better chance of succeeding in life. > Thus the behavior is an intelligence based response to more effective > reproduction. > That is nonsense. Reproduction rates _drop_ wherever people get educated. That's correlation is very well established everywhere in the world. > The first time I've run into this point, but I confess I do not find it > persuasive. It seems like a distinction without a difference. > Not at all. Actually I'm pretty certain it kills your argument, but I'm not enough into medicine to be able to prove it. You are argueing that the nocturnal emission is due to the surpressed sex drive articulating itself. We are talking about mental states controlling the body then. On the other hand I say that the mere fact that semen is continously produced and stored leads sooner or later to an end of the storage capacity and then the surplus is emitted. That's like your swallowing when you have too much salvia in your mouth. Sure, that's "instinctive" in the sense of an autmatic biological function, but it doesn't lend itself to further arguments about what humans have to do socially. It just means that men will discharge unused semen. Nothing more, nothing less. And yes, it will probably mean "erotic dreams" simply because the emission of semen is neurologically linked to whatever makes sex fun. > When aggression does not get to discharge, ("filled and never > emptied" in Ingo's words) once again the mind will find a way to see the > world so as to justify an aggressive discharge-- again, in a sense, a > spontaneous event. > While it is certain that the human drives to drink, eat, sleep and have sex ultimately cannot be denied, the same is not proven for aggression. > Disagree! It simply is unrealistic to expect young men and women on the > whole not to fornicate. > What the hell are you talking about? I'm all for fornication! =o) My comment was that concerning (open, violent) _aggression_ a lot of people in civilized countries are rather close to "celibacy". > To prevent genetic inbreeding, tribes must interbreed. This can be done > by war or in peace. In many areas of North America this was accomplished > peacefully on the whole. Before the white man came, the Iroquois > Confederacy, from which Ben Franklin got the idea for American Federalism, > allowed a vast nation of tribes to get along in peace. It was as the white > man pushed the Amerindians westward that the political stability that > existed began to disintegrate. > Thank you, you have just established that aggression has been very tightly controlled even in those "primitive" societies. So they showed their social smarts by _not_ caving each others skulls in. Right! Nice going, couldn't have done it better... ;-) > But ultimately, we are in agreement. I too don't really want to scalp > anyone. But I do believe that the primal energies within us should be > celebrated and not denied or repressed. > Primal energies... That's the real problem, you like swinging your stick (just as I do) and your intellect is trying hard to find some justification for the fact that you enjoy a bit of controlled violence. There is none, just accept that you are a social retard, albeit a harmless one, and lead a happy life... ;-) Ciao, Ingo - --- "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from ["BILL MCGRATH" (fwd) Forwarding. I deleted the HTML portions. Ray - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Forwarded message: Subject: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from ["BILL MCGRATH" ] From: "BILL MCGRATH" Subject: Tuhon Bill's new email Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:55:10 -0700 Hi Guys, 1.After problems with two big internet service providers (busy signals, = drop-offs, etc.) I have decided to go with a small local firm. My new = (and hopefully semi-permanent) email address is: tuhonbill@hvi.net 2.The July issue of Inside Kung-Fu contains an article on knife fighting = written by yours truly. It is now on the news stands in most areas of = the U.S. Please check it out and give me your feedback. 3.Allen Sachetti. I have lost your current address and phone number. = Please email me the info. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #215 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.