From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #226 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 30 May 1999 Vol 06 : Num 226 In this issue: eskrima: Gurkha in the "press" eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #225 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #224 eskrima: Villabrille Kali Staff training eskrima: Sticks eskrima: Re: Feinting eskrima: Filipino Weapons eskrima: feinting Re: eskrima: Sticks eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Van Skike" Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 12:43:04 PDT Subject: eskrima: Gurkha in the "press" This months new Maxim (with shannon doherty on the cover) has a small blurb on page 30 about gurkha training insouth ohio. And, only 150 bucks for 3 days of training. and if you cant afford to go to ohio, they'll come to you for groups larger then 10 people. 1-740-772-6985 - -eric _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: owner-eskrima Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:00:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #225 >>Who do you feel is the greatest Eskrima fighter(s) of all time?<< The one who's alive at the end of the day is the best...that day. Kim ------------------------------ From: owner-eskrima Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:02:09 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #224 >>Feinting should be one tool in your toolbox<< There you go, that says it all. Kim ------------------------------ From: "Mark Harrell" Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:05:24 PDT Subject: eskrima: Villabrille Kali Staff training From: "Dave Huang" Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:56:06 PDT Subject: eskrima: Feints and misc Misc: Was curious, are there other systems out there doing much staff training? We were doing some at IMB. I spoke with Guro Bustillo who told me that the Villabrille system had some staff in their curriculum. Obviously, DBIMA does as witnessed at the last Gathering. What about the Wing Chun/FMA guys out there? ********************************************************************* >The Villabrille Kali system as trained by my students and I does have >a fair amount of staff training, sparring, and fighting. >In Villabrille Kali however, it is up to the individual Guro's own > >preference as to how much or how far he wishes to explore this area. >I >have always enjoyed the staff so I emphasise its use as much as >the other >weapons and taught. >We start off with some Sayau's or sets that teach basic weapon >handling >skills and coordination and then move into Siniwalli drills to develop >rhythem, timing, power, strength, body mechanics, >etc. Then onto the practice of some two man drills used for >further >development of targeting and basic understanding of the use >of the staff >for sparring(counter for counter). Finally into free >style fighting with >and without body armor or padding. >It is an effective tool for developing a host of attributes not >to mention how fun it can be. >Guro Harrell _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: owner-eskrima Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 21:25:23 EDT Subject: eskrima: Sticks I'm sure this has been discussed here many times, but I'm new to the FMA list, as well as being a novice student of Kali. I was perusing the various sites that sell sticks and I'm wondering if any of you have strong opinions about what is the "best" type of training stick? The rattan sticks just don't seem to be holding up very well. What about the Ironwood, Cocobolo, High Impact Plastic and other man-made sticks? Any suggestions? Thanks, Tim ------------------------------ From: Tom Ochs Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 18:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Feinting >From: Kalki >Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 22:16:58 -0500 >Subject: eskrima: The Feint Deferred >I should have been clear and specific in my comment re: feinting ... >sole focus was -unarmed- fighting. I have a related question for those >in the know: How would you compare the usefulness of feints with >differing weapons at different ranges of combat? Altho some of this may >be intuitive (e.g., feint at long range??? "tool"-dependent, some may >e useful, some useless/wasted), I'd just like to 'hear' some >experience-based comments. Even locking and throwing use feints, e.g., >in Shuai Chiao, an intended throw may be preceded by a quick push or >pull (or hit) in a different direction, similarly Chin Na (Dumog, >Hapkido, Aikido maybe?). Reiterating, my previous comment on feinting >as re: sans weapon. I'll address the concept of "misdirection" in Aikido as a possible opening for a wider discussion. I consider "feinting" to be a subset of "misdirection." Referring to "an intended throw may be preceded by a quick push pull (or hit) in a different direction..." indicates to me that this is setting the attacker up by changing their posture or balance. We do that in every strike or lock we use (or we should). I don't think that any of us consider our first move to be the deciding move in a fight (although we might like to see that happen it seldom does). Usually we work through a progression of moves to set the opponent up for a series of connections that will end the fight in our favor. Now to my point about Aikido. In Aikido we use what is known as "atemi" or strikes - not to finish an opponent off but to change their posture so their attack can be neutralized in a lock or throw. In many cases the atemi does not even need to connect. If we know what the reaction of the opponent is likely to be we can use atemi to move them into a vulnerable position. However, I would not consider this a feint since the power of atemi is in being ready to use the strike if the opponent does not move as you want them to. For instance, if I am taking my opponent's center line by bringing my hand directly into their face, I am expecting their head to move back. If it does not, I will change my tactic and plant my hand or fist in their face. The next time they give me an opening to their center line and my hand comes through it is likely they will be more ready to move in the way I expect. It has been said by many senior Aikido instructors that "atemi" is the secret of success in Aikido. Of course many other senior instructors say that something else is the secret. ;-) The point I would make is that a feint can be as simple as a head-fake that is expecting a response from the opponent. It is never expected to be the attack. However, unballancing through atemi or through pushing or pulling can become the attack if the opponent does not know how to respond to them. Feints are never expected to become a real attack. In fact, I can expect reasonable success with unballancing an unexperienced grappler on a first or second motion. However, if it is an experienced grappler it might take many movements (in different directions governed by his/her movement) before I can expect to unballance them (or they unballance me). This is a "progressive attack" that escallates the movement of the opponent until they no longer can maintain their balance and fall over. However, each movement is a real attack with a possibility of success. When I was in High school we used feints for those who were really not much competition. As an example, we would show off against someone by walking out on the mat and looking up at the ceiling of the building. As soon as they looked up we would take them down. It was fun, but I would not expect it to work against someone on the street. Instead, I would expect to be chopped to ribbons as soon as I glanced up. That was what I would consider to be a feint. Likewise, I have missed punches on purpose to set up a spinning back-fist, but only against someone who I knew would not know how to stop it. In summary, I think that feints are good against novices, do not aid in the progression of an attack, are a subset of the bag-of-tricks known as misdirection, and are not generally efficient. However, I think that a progressive attack, used to set up an opponent by changing their posture and balance in ways we expect is the way we survive. Misdirection is part of that progressive attack. Tom Ochs ------------------------------ From: "Don Edwards" Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 05:34:34 PDT Subject: eskrima: Filipino Weapons If anyone is interested in FMA weapons...sticks knives, fighting gear etc you can also see Master Dong Cuesta at Philippine Integrated Martial Arts Academy (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Loge/7691/) located at 1 Halstead St. Jersey City, NJ 07035 or call at (201) 432-6441..I've used his equipment for years and its first rate.... Guro Don Edwards _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Don Edwards" Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 05:52:19 PDT Subject: eskrima: feinting Al Sardinas wrote: "From what I seen in the Garimot system feinting is never used. Every movement of the stick is made to count. IMO, Paltik, Witik, and twirling,etc. would be better than feinting. It's better to hit 3 times with one arm movement than once." I agree its better to hit a number of times off of one arm movement, thats the main theory in Doce Pares also, but I dont think that should exclude feinting from ones fighting style. When you are trying to get inside to execute those strikes one needs to do that with taking as little or no stikes at all.. breaking your opponents rhythm by feinting or what ever other means possible combined with miultiple strikes seems to be the better choice. Happy Memorial Day to all Don Edwards _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 08:01:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Sticks > list, as well as being a novice student of Kali. I was perusing the various > sites that sell sticks and I'm wondering if any of you have strong opinions > about what is the "best" type of training stick? The rattan sticks just don't > seem to be holding up very well. What about the Ironwood, Cocobolo, High > Impact Plastic and other man-made sticks? Any suggestions? I personally like the very hard and light rattans. I got some from Lionheard (now Datu ??) that I liked a lot. But any rattan will fray so you'll find that wrapping the last third in tape is a common event. I like the clear light wide tape used to tape a box closed as if you're careful it won't change the balance of the stick toooo much, (but it will change it). The harder woods, e.g. Bahi, are great, but they will make your partner's rattan sticks fray sooner. A former member of this forum makes nice plastic sticks. They will last forever, but again they are hard on your partner's sticks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 08:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #226 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.