From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #242 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 7 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 242 In this issue: eskrima: Media Fraille eskrima: Congress to vote to allow phone co's to charge for 'net access eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #240 eskrima: Question eskrima: FMA book & thanks eskrima: Re: firearms (again) eskrima: Big Vs. Small - My review of Tuhon Bill McGrath's Inside Kung Fu Article. eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Galicha, JR" Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:49:04 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Media Fraille Thanks to all who've responded to my question regarding the Kampilan, the groin shot idea had to be the most "interesting". >>Robbie Trinidad wrote: >> The hook is used with "Media Fraille" techniques. Media fraille is >>practiced in the Ilustrisimo system. "Media Fraille"? Please describe if you don't mind. I've never heard of that before. As I understand - and I may be wrong, that GM Tatang Illustrissimo taught his Illustrissimo Kali system, but also had a separate family system that very few can claim to know. Is that part of the Illustrissimo Kali system, or is it part of his family system. Thanks, Jun IESA ------------------------------ From: "David W. Fulton" Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:57:34 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Congress to vote to allow phone co's to charge for 'net access The date of the original email was June 1st, so that would have the vote taking place by June 15th so it's important to act now to defeat this thing. Terry, I hope this is appropriate to the list. Thanks Dave Fulton >>Subject: email bill in congress >> >> >>: E-mail Bill >>CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is going to >>vote on allowing telephone companies to charge for Internet access. That >>means, every time we send a long distance e-mail we will receive a long >>distance charge. This will get costly. Please visit the following web >>site AND complain!! Complain to your Congressman. Don't allow this to >>pass. >> >>http://www.house.gov/writerep >> >>Pass this on to your friends. It is urgent! I hope all of you will pass >>this on to all your friends and family. >> >>All of us have an interest in this one. >> >>PLEASE FORWARD TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW TODAY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!! >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:44:08 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #240 In a message dated 99-06-06 16:10:52 EDT, you write: << "How many martial arts schools and instructors teach firearm marksmanship/gunfighting as part of their system? I have found that most MA instructors do not, will not or cannot. I have only met two instructors that require their students to learn to shoot as part of their belt promotions." >> From Animal... Well I'm back from a week up on the in-laws ranch. And for those of you who are interested, the term 'cowpunching' is WAY not accurate. I nearly broke my hand discovering that all cows are wearing leather jackets. Mas Jud may have been able to kill a waterbuffalo with a slap, but I have many years to go before I get to that point. On the othe hand, the cowboys thought it was funny as hell as I hopped around doing the "owwie" dance. Anyway about training for guns. Yep, you need to know how to shoot. It is of critical import to understand how to defend yourself against a gun. By knowing how to shoot you will realize how easy it is to miss. Gee all of a sudden you begin to see why distance is your best defense against a shooter. At fifteen feet, a gun held at 5 degrees off line will miss a human sized target. Wanna see how fast I can cover 15 feet when scared? On his part, under the stress of the moment it's real easy to tweak it that much. I have seen criminals shoot up to 90 degrees off target when things go wrong for them. So distance is your best bet. The reason I hesitate to recommend disarms is all it takes is a twitch of a finger and you are toast when someone is pointing a piece at you. It's not a matter of just being faster than that guy's finger, but you also have to move the gun off line before he twitches. That's a little more tricky, because if you don't, instead of getting shot in the heart, at point blank range the bullet rips your shoulder off and you bleed to death. Oh wait, now your arm is useless to defend with so he probably will reaim and shoot you until his gun goes *click* Still if you are close, the best summation of the situation I have ever heard comes from Mike "The Amazing Eagle" Hayneck. I will tell you the truth, it also gells with my personal experience and that is this. "I don't have to be faster than a bullet, all I have to be is faster than the guy with a gun." Hit him when he is drawing. Bugger disarms, they are too good of a way to get your head blown off. However, if you train your people to attack when the guy is drawing the gun will never be pointed at them. There are certain common carries of guns among street thugs. Once you know what these are, then someone going for a gun is real obvious. The second you see him go for it, drop him. More importantly, concealed carries are ALWAYS slower than a holster draw. If you can cover 20 feet in the time it takes to draw and fire a gun from a holster, think what you can do against a concealed carry. When I say hit, I mean polka on his chest. You cannot allow him to get that gun out and deployed. You should also know that these moves are so unique that there is very little chance of them not being what you think it is. For example why would a complete stranger walk up to you in a deserted parking lot and with both hands show you his appendectomy scar? He's not, he's going for a weapon. ------------------------------ From: Filovir1@aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:19:44 EDT Subject: eskrima: Question Can someone tell me where the PEC (Philadelphia Escrima Club) is located and what style is taught there? Guru Jeff Smith is the instructor. Thank you for your time. Tim ------------------------------ From: "Branwen Thomas" Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:02:20 -0230 Subject: eskrima: FMA book & thanks Thanks very much to everyone who emailed me with info on rattan purchasing. I'd like an opinion on a book I'm carrying in my store, and any suggestions on other titles which may be of interest to FMA people/martial artists in general would be appreciated. The book is Filipino Martial Culture, by Mark V. Wiley, published by Charles E. Tuttle. I've sold a couple of copies already, and from a cultural studies POV (I have a degree in folklore) it's very interesting. I was just wondering if anyone else on the list has read it and what they think from an FMA POV. cheers, jocelyne Roaring Girl * Purveyor Of Fine Books * Beater Of Bodhrans * Smiter Of The Wicked * * Owned By Angus, Most Elegant And Pleasing Of Cats * ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:52:55 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: firearms (again) Two parts here, and Ray, feel free to eliminate part one if it is off-topic: 1) The whole gun thing - a personal note I grew up in a typical upper-middle-class Jewish intellectual household where nobody had ever owned a gun. Guns were bad. Nobody should own one. That was pretty much the way I felt until I started reading rec.guns and posted a pretty typical anti-gun message. The moderator bounced it very gently and suggested that I look at the other side of the argument and then repost if I honestly felt the same way. His advice was excellent. After taking a good hard look at the research I was forced to conclude that my opinion was not supported by the facts. For several more years I was convinced, though, that they were nothing I would ever want anything to do with. After all, martial arts wasn't about anything so horrible and unsophisticated. A few years in the FMA and IMA changed my mind about that one. The thing which really tipped the balance was the quality of the research. The antis were tendentious, dishonest, emotional, and didn't conform to even the most basic standards of scientific practice. The pros were careful, conservative in their methods, thorough, and willing to address the strongest arguments of the other side. This is exactly the opposite of what I had expected. But they were right. The antis were wrong. And that was the simple truth. If the original correspondent is interested in learning more about the subject I would be glad to bury him in citations off-line. 2) Guns in martial arts training Almost everyone in our Silat class has training in firearms use, and most own several. We haven't done a lot of work with them in the class, but an awful lot of what we do WRT the knife (retaining, disarming and so on) is directly applicable to the gun. Tiel and I have been playing around with firearm retention, gun disarming, and using pistols with our Silat practice. It changes a few things, but not as much as we'd expected. As we do more explicit weapons work in the Sera class I expect that there will be more gun stuff. The most interesting result has been in our self-defense classes. We are careful not to do any advocacy, but we do the "gadgets" section of the program right near the end of the class - after the students have been through the padded attacker and have gotten a lot more comfortable with the idea of force and personal empowerment. When we presented it earlier they were a lot more likely to look for a tool which would make them safe rather than relying on themselves first and using a tool as a means to an end. Anyhow, we started taking classes at a local range to improve our skills. (Unsolicited plug: Anyone in the Portland, OR area should seriously consider The Place to Shoot. Excellent facilities, knowledgeable staff, good classes, very fair prices) When Tiel took the Defensive Handgun I class the teacher discovered that she taught women's self-defense. He said "So YOU'RE the one who's responsible for all those college-age women taking our classes." Turns out the same was true for a couple of FMA teachers in the area. Maybe we should charge a finder's fee :-) 3) Requiring firearms training in MA class On a certain level I think this is a good thing. Guns are part of the modern world for better or worse and always will be. If someone is in the martial arts for reasons of self-protection it is necessary to know what the characteristics and capabilities of guns are both to defend against them and if one is considering using them. If someone is in it for sport, for pure recreation, for cultural conservation, or the like then it's not that important. Why get involved in an expensive hobby if it's not appropriate for your needs? I particularly disagree with the guy who requires his students to get an NYC pistol permit. In NYC such permits are at the discretion of the police. If the particular cops in charge of your case take a dislike to you or if you are the wrong class or color you will not get a permit most of the time. Requiring the permit is tantamount to requiring that your students be the sort of people whom the police like, not just the sort who haven't committed any crimes. In a state with "shall issue" CCW it would make a little more sense. There the only standard for issuing a carry permit is an objective one. In Oregon, for instance, you get one if you aren't a felon, haven't committed a violent misdemeanor in the last five years, haven't been involuntarily committed to a state mental institution, and have completed any of several certified safety courses. ------------------------------ From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\"" Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:15:35 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Big Vs. Small - My review of Tuhon Bill McGrath's Inside Kung Fu Article. I have read Tuhon's Bill McGrath's article in Inside Kung Fu regarding blade sizes and basically it's a good article but like all magazine articles of late, even TV News programs not much information is given. IMO, Tuhon McGrath got carried away with all the stories about people getting cut and even included some stories about getting shot. I could write an whole article about what I thought was wrong with the article but for the sake of brevity I will pick some specific things. Also, Tuhon, if you are reading this I want you to know that I know it is easy to criticize! So my hat is off to you for writing the article and getting it published. Now for the specifics: Bill McGrath's Small Knife Do's and Don'ts (there are 7 Do's and 5 Don'ts - the Don'ts I can agree with. On the Do's, I can agree with #1. #'s 4-6 - need legal advice) "2. Pay special attention to protecting your eyes, throat, heart, and weapon arms at all times. 3. Control your opponent's weapon arm at all times. 7. Apply for a handgun carry permit with your local authorities so you won't have to resort to a knife in defense of a knife attack in the first place (after 24 years in the pekiti-tersia system I would draw my gun over my knife should someone pull a knife on me with harmful intent). " #'s 2 and 3 - You should pay special attention to controlling your opponent's knife period. Not his arm. If you control your opponent's knife you won't have to worry about any part of your body. # 7 - Why did you write this article? To me your putting down the Pekiti-Tersia System, Tuhon Gaje and even Eddie Jaffri (I don't know his title to address him properly). I recall that a video was made for LEO's that included Guro Inosanto, Tuhon Gaje and one of his senior students (now that I look at your picture in the magazine was that you?). I think the video quoted that there would have to be a distance of at least 17' (could be 12') before one could draw one's gun and not risk being cut by a knife welding assailant. Page 62 - The Knife Picture Sequence Caption: "Bill McGrath uses small knife tactics to defend against this low-line straight thrust delivered by the attacker by parrying the thrust with his free hand while using a powerful icepick stab to the shoulder joint (1). Cintinuing the mmotion of his weapon arm, McGrath paries the attacker's knife further from his body (2). McGrath can now cicle his foe's arm into an inside wristlock (3). Once in the wristlock, McGrath can now cut the tendons in his enemy's wrist (4)." What I see: 1. Tuhon Bill McGrath (TBM) does not have contol of his opponent's knife. The attacker (AT) can easily block or control TBM' knife. The AT can easily continue to move to TBM's side and cause damage. 2. Same as 1 but even worse. The AT can easily cut TBM's arm, body. The AT can also apply a finger lock on TBM's free hand. 3. It appears that TBM is controlling AT's wrist. However, TBM leaves his upperbody and face open to attack. A real bad mistake - TBM is trapping his own knife hand! The AT can easily get out of this situation. 4. It appears that finally TBM has control of the AT's hand. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #242 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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