From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #255 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 16 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 255 In this issue: eskrima: Sinister implications eskrima: Great Fighters eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #254 eskrima: Villabrille Legend not necessarily the facts eskrima: Tail wags eskrima: great new web page eskrima: Lefties & EYD eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #254 eskrima: re Floro Villabrialle and Koichi Tohei eskrima: Sayas-Lastra Arnis New Website eskrima: Dog Brother's Article - MAI August 1999 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #254--Villabrille and Dizon eskrima: WKC IN NEWARK DE. THIS SAT. eskrima: Knife slashes by Doctors eskrima: Re: mindset eskrima: training partners eskrima: back... .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Sinister implications Reading the notes about left and sinister reminded me of something that happened some time back. I was studying IMA at a very strange school in the Northwest. The teacher had picked up something from her teacher to the effect that the left hand was evil and bad and that one shouldn't touch people with it. She got onto a long mystical spiel about the energetic polarity of the body and how, if you had spiritual power, the left side had strong negative energies. She wasn't terribly amused when I mentioned that Indonesia was a predominantly Muslim country and that there was a particular reason why Muslims don't touch other people or eat with the left hand. Has something to do with what the left hand is traditionally used for .... ------------------------------ From: Danny Alvendia Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Great Fighters What about Cacoy Canete. He is upto now willing to spar and fight at his age of ... 70+. He is quick and his sensitivity is great. If story is true, then Gabriel "Flash" Elorde, a junior lightweight champion in the 60's, was a trained eskrimador. He proved his mettle in the boxing ring. > > From: "Ward, Jon" > Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:57:42 -0700 > Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #253 > > Hi Clay, > > FYI it's Dizon not Dixon. > > > ---------- > > Subject: eskrima: Great Eskrima Fighters > > > > Greatest Eskrima Fighters > > > > I > > > > Felicisimo Dixon  An undisputed death match champion who was never > > defeated in combat. He trained and won many fights in dark caves; he also > > killed sharks with his knife during his nightly swims. Tought Cabales and > > traveled with him for nearly 20 years fighting together successful always. > > > > > - -- Danny Alvendia dannya@3com.com ------------------------------ From: "David W. Fulton" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:28:34 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #254 > >From: Bakbakan@aol.com >Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:43:01 EDT >Subject: eskrima: Re: Great Eskrima Fighters > >To the westerners it's Villabrille, Dizon and Cabales. In the Philippines >it's Antonio "Tatang" Ilustrisimo! > I can understand having loyalty and admiration for the founder of your system, and especially for someone like Ilustrisimo, but don't you think it's a little much to imply that Ilustrisimo is the only name that would come up in all of the P.I.'s? I suspect each region has it's great fighters and 'undefeated' fighters as well. It's funny how many of the old masters were 'undefeated'....makes you wonder doesn't it? Sincerely, Dave "Undefeated Stick Fighting Champion....of my street" Fulton. dwf@computerpackages.com "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...'til you can find a big stick." ------------------------------ From: Mark Harrell Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:58:32 PDT Subject: eskrima: Villabrille Legend not necessarily the facts >From: " " >Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:50:47 -0700 >Subject: eskrima: Great Eskrima Fighters You wrote: ...Floro Villabrille the venerable stick-fighting master who fought hundreds of full-contact weapons matches during his lifetime, many of which did not end until one fighter was left incapacitated or dead. Villabrille never lost one of these death matches. He was said to have superhuman strength and could not only punch nails through 2x4's with his bare fists, but then could pull the nail out with his hand. >>I have been active in Villabrille Kali for more than 20 years >>and I have heard many versions of these stories. Remember that >>unless you were actually there you will never really know what factually >>took place. Keep in mind, that over time these stories >>become larger >>than life. Folk legends are built from one person >>telling the story to the next person over time. Each person >>expanding or >>interpetting the story in their own way. For example: >>I know that the number "hundreds of matches" is an exaggerated >>number. You wrote: Villabrille and Dizon trained together under the instruction of a blind princess who lived in a cave under a waterfall (or something like that). >>Actually, you are partially correct with this one. Floro Villabrille >>and Dizon were friends, traveling companions, and training partners >>but Dizon did not train with the blind Princess. The waterfall and >>cave reference I think you are confusing with the Serrada Eskrima >>and >>Dizon legend written about in the magazine "Inside Kung Fu" an >>article >>by Master Jimmy Tacosa in the 1980's. In that article he >>tells of the >>legend of a monk, a cave, and a shark infested >>lagoon, etc... You wrote: Sometime later, Villabrille somehow infuriated a Moro Prince so they ended up in a stickfighting duel. Villabrille was getting beat up pretty bad because the prince kept jumping over him and hitting him many times while flipping over him in midair. Finally, Villabrille killed the prince with one well-timed strike to the head. Because he killed the prince, he instantly made many enemies and was forced to flee to Hawaii. >>This story\legend has been written about many times in the martial >>arts magazines. In fact, the articles were written by Villabrille >>Kali students from the Bay Area, California. This is the main >>headquarters of the Villabrille-Largusa Kali system and its >>governing >>body called the Kali Association of America. Let me just say that the >>version of this story\legend that has been emphasized >>by the Kali Association of America does not have the Moro Prince >>jumping or flying through the air while hitting Villabrille. In >>fact, >>given the nature of Kali fighting tactics even if the Moro Prince was >>leaping through the air, it is very unlikely that this >>tactic would be effective. I have also heard a version of this >> >>story\legend that says that no death occured. That version states >>that the match lasted several rounds and ended when the Moro Prince >>could not continue due to injuries and threw in the towel so to >>speak. You wrote: Because he killed the Prince, he instantly made many enemies and was forced to flee to Hawaii. >>Well, once again, we will never know for sure because we were not >>actually there and the only thing we have to go on is the many >>versions >>of these stories\legends. It could just be that he visited >>Hawaii, liked it and decided to stay and raise his family >>there. Maybe, there were better job opportunities and living >>conditions >>for his family in Hawaii??? You wrote: This next story I may have gotten wrong since it was a while back that I heard this one from Master Babao, but it involves Koichi Tohei: A man named Tohei arrived in Hawaii to promote the new Japanese art of Aikido. One day, he stood on a platform and challenged any comer to take him in a fight. So some guys called out, "Hey, Villabrille! Come over here!". When Tohei saw that the man they were calling was the guy lifting oil barrels two at a time, holding one WITH EACH HAND, he declined to fight him. >>I have heard a different version of this story\legend from the Kali >>Association of America and Grandmaster Largusa himself. Let's >>just say that in his version there was no challenge to fight issued >>from the Aikido Master. It was merely an Aikido demonstration and >>Grandmaster Villabrille was not lifting oil barrels two at a time. >>In conclusion, I guess these stories\legends are kinda fun to hear. >>I listen to them and then go on with my life. These folk legends and >>the >>many stories of their exploits personally do not have any affect >>on my >>study, or practice of martial arts. The fact or fiction of >>them does >>not contribute to my personal growth in the martial arts >>or even as >>person in general. In my humble opinion, they are just >>kinda fun and they add to the colorful history and legend of the martial >>arts. >>Maybe if we spend more time studying and practicing we may become >>our own living legend. ha, ha Well, at least in our own minds. >>Peace be with you, >>Guro Harrell _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:47:33 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Tail wags A Howl of Greeting to All: I just got back last night from my trip. Tail wags of thanks for all the blessings/congratulations etc. on the marriage thing. In conversation someone said to me "Its about time!" to which I replied "No, its about the right woman." I'm a lucky man. Crafty ------------------------------ From: "big Joe A." Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:36:31 PDT Subject: eskrima: great new web page Hi people, It's me Big Joe again. I would just like to anounce the launching of a new web page by Guro Eddie S. Lastra of the Lastra School of Arnis. I suggest you guys check it out there is a lot of great info. on the site. The address is www.lastra-arnis.8m.com . There are some interesting pictures too. ttfn, Big Joe _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:15:27 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Lefties & EYD An Etymological gold star to all those who answered correctly that the English word "sinister" comes from the Latin "on the left side" with the connotation of "unlucky" or "unfavorable". My point being that perhaps the bias many cultures have for left handedness explains the relatively small percentage of techniques assigned to left vs right Espada y Daga work (at least in the FMAs I have seen). Picture how Pekiti-Tirsia Espada y Daga techniques are formalized for right handers: Four groups of techniques each with three grip combinations for the dagger (hammer vs. hammer, icepick vs hammer, icepick vs. icepick) Attacks: 3 sets of 12 Disarms: 3 sets of 12 Contradas (countering combinations): 3 sets of 12 Recontras (recountering combinations): 3 sets of 12 The left vs right EYD techniques you could fit in a hat. Break in-Break out, Tapping on thrust, plus a few disarms. Now PT (and most FMA I have seen) has plenty of left vs right single stick and single knife techniques, (the idea being that a righty suddenly shifting to southpaw would throw an opponent off his game) but my guess is that openly left handed people were not that common in Spanish or Muslim times in the Philippines so meeting a left handed Eskrimador in combat was rare. Could any of the Filipinos on the list comment on my theory (I won't be insulted if you pick it apart, it's only a theory). Big Joe sent me an interesting email about his system and its' use of left hand techniques and I have included it below. Tuhon Bill, The art that I study Modernized Philippine Martial Arts, Central Region Art, Visayas Style is a double weapon style in espada y daga lenghts. It also has counters for both left and right handers. In fact one of our intermediate guys is a left hander and he is quite good. The counters are different. This art takes us from white belt to 4th Degree Black belt which carries the title of raja.If you have the chance you may want to check us out. Hi Joe, Thanks for the info. I was beginning to think the lack of left vs right EYD was a cultural thing. I'm told that there were no "official" lefties among either the Catholic Spanish or the Muslim Filipinos in the old days. This bias must go way back (our word "sinister" comes from the Latin "on the left side") and my Chinese wife was forced by her mother to switch from a lefty to a righty as a child. Two questions: 1. Is your system able to accomplish a number for number translation from the right vs right techniques to the left vs right techniques. 2. How old is the left vs right phase of your system? Did it start during Spanish rule or later under the Americans? I think this subject would make an interesting subject for Eskrima Digest. Why don't you repost this whole message, (my original question, your response, my new questions, plus your answers) to the digest. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath PS. Just think what the digest will be like when we all have cable modems and can post video explanations! Tuhon Bill, The same thing happened with my sister. She was ambidextrous but my father made her favor her right hand and she lost that ability. As to your questions: 1. Is your system able to accomplish a number for number translation from the right vs. right techs. to the left vs. right phase of our sys. A: If what you mean is that the lefty has the same counters except on the opposite side then the answer is yes. The thing is we don't use a numbering system. We instead use the target. Although numbers are sometimes used to help in the begining. What i mean is that my counter one would be to the left shoulder of my opponent while the lefties counter one would be to the right shoulder of his opponent. 2. How old is the left vs. right phase of our art? A: I'm not sure but I do know that our arts were developed by my instructor Prof. Norlito B. Soriano during the 60's,70's,80's, and are still developing now into the 90's and hopefully into the next millenium. My instructors'belief is that nothing stays the same and that if the arts aren't constantly improving that they will stagnate and die. He doesn't improve by adding techniques from here or there but by refining what he has and removing what isn't necessary. Your friend in training, Big joe p.s. As far as posting this stuff please feel free to forward all this to the list. ------------------------------ From: Richard Marcaida Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:04:57 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #254 Hi Guys, Broke my right arm playing Basketball.Guess I won't be holding those sticks for awhile. Any Doctors out there who can advice me about healing the fastest way? It's two hairline fractures of the Ulna bone. Any help will be grately appreciated. Thanks, Rj Marcaida eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com wrote: > Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 15 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 254 > > In this issue: > > eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #253 > eskrima: Re: "on the left side" [600 lines deleted. Do not send issues of the digest back to the list.] ------------------------------ From: JYCHOW@au.oracle.com Date: 16 Jun 99 21:28:56 +1000 Subject: eskrima: re Floro Villabrialle and Koichi Tohei Paolo Valladolid wrote (with a disclaimer.....):- >A man named Tohei arrived in Hawaii to promote the new Japanese art of >Aikido. One day, he stood on a platform and challenged any comer to take >him in a fight. So some guys called out, "Hey, Villabrille! Come over >here!". When Tohei saw that the man they were calling was the guy lifting >oil barrels two at a time, holding one WITH EACH HAND, he declined to fight= >him. > I heard the story from an Aikido instructor who learnt from Tatang Ilustrisimo in Luneta Park. Osensei Tohei was giving a great demo, and knowing Osensei, he was such a powerful and brilliant master. He demonstrated how with his great Ki power, he could get out of any locks applied to him, and if he applies a lock on someone, the person can not get out. And he was impressing and entertaining the crowd, asking for volunteers. Up came old Floro. Does not look strong, just an old man. Took hold of Osensei who was shocked to find the old chap could move out with ease every time. Then Floro switched roles. And Osensei was even more shocked to find that the old man had him all locked up every time and he could not escape! It was very embarassing for such a master of such great reputation. It is rumoured that this event changed Osensei. Just what I heard from an Aikido teacher.............. This version may be a little more accurate. Nevetheless, Thanks, Paolo for your contribution. = It seems that most Aikido teachers are not aware of this story. BTW, according to a Filipino source, the Blind Princess is possibly a female warrior hermit (and in the West, unfairly called a 'witch' - because of possession of some magical powers) whose sight was impaired. Not totally blind. Not a real Princes either. Some stories from America first said she was a Princess of Samar. But that can not be so, according to my source there - because there is no Kingdom of Samar. There is no King of Samar, so there can not be a Princess of Samar. I am not sure I am getting my logic through to readers here. I had spoken on this years ago. Then the stories changed to being the famous Princes Josephina. BTW, not many people are aware that Tatang Ilustrisimo was also visually impaired in his old age because he could still handle sparring as if his eye sight were perfect 20/20 vision. Cataract etc, possibly the same as the 'Princess'. BTW, can any body guess the connection between Villabraille and the Ilustrisimo Clan's fighting legacy? Cheers! John Chow ------------------------------ From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\"" Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:37:19 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Sayas-Lastra Arnis New Website I hope Guro Eddie Lastra doesn't mind but I have to plug his new website: http://lastra-arnis.8m.com IMO, It is one of the top FMA websites on the internet. There is a good amount of information on the site. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: "Al \"Got This Fish On The Move\"" Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:01:55 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Dog Brother's Article - MAI August 1999 I recently read the Dog Brother's article, "The 7 Ranges of Stick Fighting" in the August 1999 issue of Martial Arts Illustrated. It is a great article! So great, I even emailed MAI and wrote that they should include more articles from Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny, maybe even make it a monthly department. The article discusses the traditional 3 stick-fighting ranges and how the Brothers discovered that when it came to combing grappling with their stick-fighting there were 7 ranges: snake, stick-squared, largo, medio,corto, standing-grapple, and finally ground-grapple range. (For the record, in the Garimot system DB's largo would be considered medio.) The article discusses in detail each range and the technique sequence pictures fully support and explain the ranges (I recommend reading the article first then review the pictures). The only thing I wish or thought that was lacking would be that the article included a picture or gave more detail on the category "merge the force" of the stick-squared range. Marc Denny wrote that the merge is "where the force of my strike on my opponent's weapon is approximately at an angle of 90 degrees to the line of force of his strike...". This sounds like a perpendicular block to me but Mr Denny also writes: "The purpose of a merge is to knock your opponent's weapon off course and disrupt his control....". A perpendicular strike? Perhaps Mr. Denny can explain more. Anyway, once again a great article. Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: Bob Manalo Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #254--Villabrille and Dizon Here's our take on the story... Villabrille and Dizon never trained together, but were contemporaries. Their styles were different and separate. Floro Villabrille is related to Tatang Illustrisimo, and Tatang and Dizon were contemporaries, also. As for the Muslim Prince, I'll leave that one alone... Peace, Bob Manalo, Jr. IESA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Allen Sachetti Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:37:05 -0400 Subject: eskrima: WKC IN NEWARK DE. THIS SAT. The 1999 WKC is being held this Saturday June 19th at the "Girls Inc" Gynasium in Newark DE. Take exit 1b from I-95 to 896 towards Newark Take 896 to make a right onto RT 4 Take RT 4 2 lights to make a left onto 72 North Take 72 North over an overpass to see your first light and make a left at that light onto Wyomming. Take the first immediate Driveway on your Left into the Girls Inc. Complex Registration and Weigh Ins start at 9:30, be prompt. All weight classes in Novice Intermediate and Advanced will be as follows: Solo Baston Doble Baston Knife Espada Y Daga Dumpag Halo-Halo Long Stick Good Luck To All Competitors For Information Call 1-800-879-4574 or 1-410-620-4693 ------------------------------ From: "Michael Kitchen" Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:01:24 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Knife slashes by Doctors So I got there at the appointed 2 hours pre-op time of 2:00. "Good news Mr. Kitchen, the doctor is going to do your operation early." I was in the O.R. at 2:50 talking with Dr. B (the anthest ... can hardly ever say it much less spell it) and then the 'lights went out.' I woke up and a nurse was giving me some sprite with a straw. It was about 5:30--home by 7:00. The original achillies rupture didn't really hurt that bad ..... the reconstruction does. Nothing that 800mg of motrin can't help with. I took the LAST narcotic for this at 3:00a.m. --yuck, it upset my stomach, depressed my breathing, and made my head swim; worse than a good upper-cut or hook to the temple. I have pain, so I know I am alive. It's good. Michael Kitchen student of Guro Cucci ------------------------------ From: LeighanS@aol.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:22:17 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: mindset from:leighans@aol.com is there a way to develop the mindset of use the purse/shoe/ or whatever is handy?....you bet.....it is very simple....just decide from the start that you will not be the victim......you can fight tooth and claw without becoming a homicidal maniac afterwards....you just need to set your priorities.....flight or fight is a great defence mechanism, if used properly....your number one defence is always flight....you cant get hit or hurt if you are not in the path to get hurt......if that is no longer an option, then decide to stand your ground and win....after all, some one would like to see you make it home(children, spouse, etc.).......self defence is a lot like disciplining children....when you make the thought or action to do something, then you must carry it out, otherwise it is ineffective....kinda like telling the kiddies not to do something or you will spank them.....if you say it, then you must do it.........ciao......leighan p.s. trivia question: what is the penalty for homicide? ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: training partners > Here's our take on the story... > > Villabrille and Dizon never trained together, but were contemporaries. From what we know Dizon and Villabrille were friends, contemporaries, training partners, etc. Interestingly enough, many of the same stories that are repeated in the Serrada lines are also repeated in the Villabrille lines. I ran into a fellow at Gunsite that trained with Lindsey Largusa, we had an interesting time trading the same/similar stories. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: back... Goodbye Illinois, Hello California... Ray Terry ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #255 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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