From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #256 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 17 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 256 In this issue: eskrima: Re: GM Cacoy Canete eskrima: Re: Training the left hand eskrima: Martial art vids on auction eskrima: Villabrille stories eskrima: re greatest fighters eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #255 eskrima: Illustrisimo-Villabraille connection eskrima: Anyone know about GM Benjamin Luna Lema eskrima: are there any old tapes for sale? Re: eskrima: Anyone know about GM Benjamin Luna Lema eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Casto Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: GM Cacoy Canete << What about Cacoy Canete. He is upto now willing to spar and fight at his age of ... 70+. He is quick and his sensitivity is great. >> Actually, Cacoy is 80 now. At a seminar with him a few weeks ago, I asked him if he'd ever lost a fight. He said that he hadn't (he's been training for 73 years). Having felt his energy and work at 80, I can't bring myself to doubt him. Later, Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 19:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Training the left hand I had the opportunity to see Tuhon Chris Sayoc give a demo last year (I wish I could have stayed for the part where he actually taught, but I had to go catch my flight home). His system is strictly a knife system and they call the empty hand (whether right or left) the "loading hand" as opposed to the more common term "live hand" that I've heard. They call it the "loading hand" because while the other hand is busy, that one is "loading" up with another blade. He said that their training involves "templates" or striking patterns for the right and left hands. While the templates for the right hand are different than the templates for the left hand, they compliment each other. Consequently, if you've only got one knife, it doesn't matter which hand you put it in, you'll be comfortable with it and have templates to work from ... but, if you've got 2 knives, then your hands can work independently of each other without getting each others way. I can't remember how many templates he said there were for each hand, but I thought that this was a really interesting concept and I look forward to the opportunity to see him again ... I'll definitely not miss it :-) Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: n9yz@unb.ca Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:17:40 -0300 (ADT) Subject: eskrima: Martial art vids on auction I have a bunch of used martial art vids on auction at www..ebay.com including an excellent tape by Suro Mike Inay on Kedena De mano vol.1 Type in "martial art video" for search. Ray, please let me know it this is inappropriate. PL ------------------------------ From: Paolo Valladolid Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:50:25 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Villabrille stories In response to two of the responses to my post about the Villabrille stories, all I can say is that it was very obvious to all who heard the stories told in Arnis class that they were not being presented as hard historical fact but rather as something from our Filipino heritage to be enjoyed by all. I apologize for failing to convey this in the first place. My source that I cited for these folk tales is more that aware of where the headquarters of the Villabrille-Largusa organization are. I saw his instructor's certificate from Ben Largusa which he keeps framed and hanging on a wall in his garage. :) Cheers, Paolo ------------------------------ From: JYCHOW@au.oracle.com Date: 17 Jun 99 19:24:28 +1000 Subject: eskrima: re greatest fighters David W. Fulton wrote:- >I can understand having loyalty and admiration for the founder of your >system, and especially for someone like Ilustrisimo, but don't you think >it's a little much to imply that Ilustrisimo is the only name that would >come up in all of the P.I.'s? I suspect each region has it's great fighters >and 'undefeated' fighters as well. It's funny how many of the old masters >were 'undefeated'....makes you wonder doesn't it? > Dave, I think the previous writer (and I don't know who he is) was just putting his choice in humour. He does have a point - and Tatang Ilustrisimo is very great. I think the writer was trying to put in masters from other than those popularised in the West and a bit of humour to balance the scales. Your point about only Tatang's name to come up is worthy of note. No, there are other great masters, and there are many who are not even known at all to the West. They are just as great. And they were undefeated as well. Good point. You wondered how it is funny that many of the old masters were 'undefeated'.= Do I read you to mean:- 1) They were undefeated champions of Philippines the whole of their life? There can only be ONE champion at any time, I assume. There were no weight or category divisions, so there is no heavy weight champion, batam weight champion, fly weight champion,...etc. Only one single category, = there is only one champion. This is problematic, as there are so many who claimed to be champions! Most probably, they are champions in their barrios, neighbourhoods, provinces, regions, at a particular fiesta in a particular town...etc, at a particular competition (this is modern one). Dave, your point is taken here. 2) Claims of travelling the whole of Philippines, relently seeking out just = any fighters and challenging them to duels....etc, and never defeated. Thus being invincible and undefeated champion of Philippines. As you pointed out, there are several claims to such an esteemed privilege. That poises a proble because there can only be one champion. These 'champions', if they were so active in seeking each other out would certainly have found each other withing months and 'killed each other'. That did not happen and they all gloriously emerged as undefeated champion. I note in the real world, even champions have a period of reign. No matter how good you are, there is going to be another younger person who is just as good, but not as old as you to take your glory away. It is not logical to say undefeated champion for the whole of the life. Just a portion maybe. By the way - undefeated for a portion of the life - that means the champion for that period, I assume. There is a qualifier. Nevertheless, from examining the life histories of the claimants, they seem to life around the same period, and were active around the same periods. This again poses a big problem. Dave, am I reading you correct? Thanks you for your thoughts which I think indicate some depth............ Danny Alvendia wants to put in Cacoy Canette. Why not? Cacoy is also a great fighter. He was champion at a the formal competitions, wasn't he? This was witnessed by hundreds. Good choice too. May I also throw in Anciong Bacon of Balintawak too, if I may. He is a small man, but don't look down on his size! And, may I be excused for nominating Jose Cabalerro as well. All these gentlemen lived and 'fought' around the same period and would have known of each other, but never fought each other, thus, each remaining truly undefeated. eg. The Doce Pares is well known. They can not run away and hide if you want to challenge them. Why have they not been challenged by those who claim to have challenged every fighter they hear of? Makes us wonder, doesn't it? Of course, the reader may ask, if they were so madly enthusiatically challenging and fighting just any fighters at all, why didn't didn't they fight each other to decide who is the champion? Maybe it is our destiny to keep wondering why............ Hence Dave's pondering, and my amazement?= I am wondering whether to conclude that these gentlemen are very great masters and have not been defeated because they know when to take the risk of challenging and threatening, and CARRYING THROUGH WITH THE CHALLENGE. In other words, they were great fighters, and wise enough. Good post, Dave! Cheers! John "Undefeated Champion of My Street Too!" Chow ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:05:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #255 ****************************************************** BTW, can any body guess the connection between Villabraille and the Ilustrisimo Clan's fighting legacy? Cheers! John Chow ******************************************************* I'm not sure what you mean here. Both Floro Villabraile and Antonio Illstrisimo were nephews of Melacio Illustrisimo. Is this what you are referring to? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Drew Zimba Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Illustrisimo-Villabraille connection ****************************************************** BTW, can any body guess the connection between Villabraille and the Ilustrisimo Clan's fighting legacy? Cheers! John Chow ******************************************************* I'm not sure what you mean here. Both Floro Villabraile and Antonio Illstrisimo were nephews of Melacio Illustrisimo. Is this what you are referring to? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Ernie Aragon, Jr." Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:30:32 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Anyone know about GM Benjamin Luna Lema Hello Folks, I am a new practitioner of LESKAS or the Lightning Scientific Style of arnis. My instructor is not that well versed in the history of LESKAS and about the accomplishments of GM Lema. I checked out the LESKAS website and it was not much of help either. Is there anyone familiar with the GM? How does LESKAS compare to the other styles of the FMA? Thanks. Ernie Aragon, Jr. U.P.AKA'n (University of the Philippines Arnis Kali Association) ------------------------------ From: "Ernie Aragon, Jr." Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:35:05 -0700 Subject: eskrima: are there any old tapes for sale? I was wondering if anyone had any beginner or intermediate arnis/kali/eskrima tapes that are good but don't use much anymore (since you're already advanced) that can be sold? I am willing to buy. Please e-mail me personally at earagon@witty.com or at earagon@csi.com.ph BTW, I'm currently residing in the Philippines and will cover for shipping charges if tapes are from outside of the RP. Ernie Aragon, Jr. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Anyone know about GM Benjamin Luna Lema > I am a new practitioner of LESKAS or the Lightning Scientific Style of > arnis. My instructor is not that well versed in the history of LESKAS and > about the accomplishments of GM Lema. I checked out the LESKAS website and > it was not much of help either. Is there anyone familiar with the GM? How > does LESKAS compare to the other styles of the FMA? Thanks. Here is info direct from the FMA FAQ on: Lighting Scientific Arnis Lema Scientific Kali Arnis System (LESKAS) Benjamin Luna Lema (1919- ) A system which stresses, both, speed and power in the execution of techniques encompassing solo and doble baston, Espada y Daga and empty hand and foot combinations. The key emphasis being the "blanketing" or "closing off" of an opponent's impending attack either by meeting the strike via a simultaneous hit and counter or any various combinations of disarms which would effectively neutralize any further or secondary followups from the attacker. major players : Elmer Ybanez, Felipe Jocano Jr. Fil Buena, Nathan Dominguez, Manolo Del Rosario, Joshua Medros, Gerrard Torio Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:32:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #256 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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