From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #265 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 22 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 265 In this issue: eskrima: wondering dog eskrima: Re: Classes in San Jose, Santa Crus eskrima: Re: Balintawak & left hand eskrima: Re: Teaching knife eskrima: KdM seminar Re: eskrima: wondering dog eskrima: Re: PT Knife Videos for Women.. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #264 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:32:51 -0700 Subject: eskrima: wondering dog A Howl Etc: In response to a question of mine, Bill McG wrote: > I don't profess to understand my reasoning on this point all that well > myself. While I have accused of being slightly to the right of Attila the > Hun, I really consider myself more of a Libertarian with a Conservative bend > on social issues. I am as strong a pro-gun person as you are likely to > meet. , , , Believe me when I say that I am in full agreement > with Marc when it comes to firearms and product liability suits. I guess my > stance on not selling knife videos to the general public is analogous to my > views on charity. When I pass a truly destitute/hungry person on the > street, I feel a strong moral obligation to go into my own pocket and buy > them some food, but I also feel an extremely strong repugnance to having the > government go into my pocket to buy them some food. I think my views on not > selling knife videos has more to do with being able to look at myself in the > mirror and know I did the right thing with the knowledge I have rather than > any legal obligations. Fully agreed on the validity of the distinction between voluntary and coerced charity-- (the latter sometimes being known as theft/robbery/stealing/liberalism/socialism etc.) but I confess to having some trouble with the continuation of the logic. It seems to me what Bill is saying can be restated thus: Just as one should give to the legitimately destitute, one should not be coerced into it (whether by the Government or by the destitute or other "free-lance" agents of violence). So too morally one should not have guns but nor should one be prevented from owning them by the Government. Stated thusly, I'm sure this is contradictory to what I am sure Bill actually believes. If Bill is saying that the right thing is not let knife knowledge out, just as the right thing is to voluntarily give charity to the legitimately destitute, then why do he and I oppose product liability suits against gun manufacturers? Regarding guns, for me the answer is simply a matter of the principal of personal responsibility. The responsibility for the use of the tool, assuming proper manufacture, belongs to the user. If I run over a little old lady with my Harley, it would be remarkably stupid to hold Harley Davidson responsible. If I get drunk and plow through a crowd with my Toyota pick-up truck, even the most evangelical of the PC crowd would hesitate to claim liability for Toyota, car manufacturers in general, the maker of my drink in question, or alcohol producers in general. Of course this leads to the question of the overall suitability of the thing in question. About motorcycles and cars, we are all agreed. Overall, they are to the general good. And since the repeal of Prohibition in the US, the matter of alcohol is mostly settled. Guns, some would argue, are different. Some would argue that on the whole they do more harm than good. If this is the case, then let the matter be settled through the democratic process! But to corrupt the moral fabric of society by obliviating the principle of personal responsibility in order to glibly achieve one's political goals through the backdoor of the anti-democratic branch of government known as the judiciary as the liberal-left and its running dog lawyer lackeys ;-) are trying to do with these law suits is wrong. Not only are their methods elitist, but I believe them to be wrong on the merits-- I believe that on the whole that guns are a definite plus. The lowest crime areas of the US usually have the highest legal gun ownership. Where private citizens have the hardest time getting guns (e.g. Washington DC) crime is highest. We the people need guns for the same reason that the police do-- to protect ourselves from those who would do us harm and to protect us from a State that would require us to be the sheep it protects and fleeces. Guns do not equal crime per se. I suspect Bill is more or less in agreement with this reasoning (although he may veer away from my more rabid choices of words;-} ) and I suspect that he would agree with me when I assert the same reasoning to be true of knives as of guns, cars, alcohol, and motorcycles. So why feel guilty if someone misuses the knowledge? Why not say with a clear conscience that one is not responsible just as car, alcohol and gun manufacturers are not? Please note that the question is rhetorical-- in point of fact I share his unease about teaching knife-- and I would regard my knife skills and knowledge as below average. Perhaps his next paragraph sheds light. > Maybe it's because I have noticed that knife seems to attract a higher > percentage of "oddballs" than any of the other FMA weapons (you should see > some of the spooky people I have had come up to me after demos asking to > learn knife-one lady was right out of central casting for "Fatal > Attraction"). Thus are we saying that the cost/benefit ratio changes with knife when changes we look at the kind of people likely to seek training with a knife? Does the same apply to gun training programs? (Ray?) PLEASE UNDERSTAND: I am NOT advocating teaching knife openly, through videos etc. I am asking WHY we seem apply inconsistent logic, and I include myself in that "we". Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: Jason Inay Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:12:06 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Classes in San Jose, Santa Crus Hello all you IED'rs, The Inayan System of Eskrima has been taught in Silicon Valley since the mid 70's. So if you are ever interested just E-mail any of the Guro's on the list. There is also Inayan Guro's in Indiana and Tennessee. I myself have been teaching in Boulder Creek, just 15 minutes from Santa Cruz, in the San Larenzo Valley, for over a year now. Jason Inay _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: n9yz@unb.ca Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:12:17 -0300 (ADT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Balintawak & left hand Michael, That was very interesting. I have found the balintawak drills developed amazing sensivity in the live hand and stick hand as well. It is basically sensivity to read your opponent's energy that allow us to hit or control using all those terms you were using in close range. After training the old Yang TJ Chuan for a year of so. I have discovered there are basically 13 energies that TJ chuan utilizes. It is known as the 13 postures and all TJ chuan movement are based on these 13 postures (press, squeeze, lean, collide, pull ......etc.). The names of these 13 ernegies (in chinese) captured all those terms you were using. PL ..... > Because of my frustration with the lack of nomenclature, I invented some in > English,for the benefit of myself and students when teaching. I have several > dozen terms (e.g. push, fold, shove, lift, press, swing, hook, press, drop, drag, > sweep, pin, yank, pull, flip, and others). I'm not sure that I would call the > scheme a success story. The clearing technique that you adopted, "downward > scoop/monekyhand/jow sao to his live hand", sounds to be typical. I would call it > either sweep (counter-clockwise) or hook (clockwise) or pull (to the hip) or > shove (to his body). > > Regards, > G. Michael Zimmer ------------------------------ From: Steve_Harvey@3com.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:16:24 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Teaching knife With sincerest respects for all the Guros and Tuhon, I don't think any Guro should be too morally troubled about publishing videos on FMA knife technique. I believe all the training I have recieved so far (only 2 years in Eskrima) has been 99% about how not to get killed, and only incidentally about how to kill. I don't believe I will ever see a FMA video on sneaking up on people and stabbing them. It is easy to kill with a knife. Every week, people are killed with knives by unskilled but enraged spouses in their kitchens, bedrooms, and living rooms. What is hard is to survive, and that is what requires the skills that we practice. One could argue that teaching a killer to survive enables him to kill, but that's a pretty technical argument. One could as easily argue that the more people who can survive a knife attack and fight back, the less appealing attacking somebody with a knife becomes. More knowledge is almost never a bad thing. Historically, it has only been knowledge (power) in the hands of the few that has been dangerous to society. Respectfully, Steve Harvey ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: KdM seminar Suro Mike Inay will be holding a Kadena de Mano (KdM) seminar on July 10/11, 1999, in Campbell, California (1 mile from San Jose, California, in the San Francisco Bay Area). Those successfully completing this two day seminar and passing the exam at the end will receive full Level 1 KdM Instructor Certification from Suro Inay. The cost of the two day seminar/certification is $275. Kadena De Mano is an Eskrima style that Suro Inay learned from the late GrandMaster Max Sarmiento. The literal translation of KdM is 'Chain of the Hands'. KdM is a combination of empty-hand and knife/dagger techniques. KdM covers basic and advanced hand and knife drills as well as permuted locks from the basic/advanced drills. Lock/flow/trap practice drills are stressed. Additional levels of certification are available after successful completion of Level 1. Those interested in attending or in obtaining more information should contact Suro Inay at eskrimador@aol.com. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:20:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: wondering dog To Crafty and others, please stay off the gun politics issue in this forum. Trust me, few are more pro-gun that I am, but this is not the place to discuss US politics, esp given the global nature of this forum. Guns as martial weapons are ok to discuss, but not the HCI vs. NRA vs. ?? stuff. Thanks. > Thus are we saying that the cost/benefit ratio changes with knife when > changes we look at the kind of people likely to seek training with a knife? > Does the same apply to gun training programs? (Ray?) PLEASE UNDERSTAND: > I am NOT advocating teaching knife openly, through videos etc. I am asking > WHY we seem apply inconsistent logic, and I include myself in that "we". Many/most of the better known firearms training schools require a background check from your local PD to be submitted with your first application. The schools that teach just the basic firearms safety stuff seldom require this. But once you get into tactical firearms training, i.e. where you encounter Navy Seals, AirForce PJs, Swat members, DoE members, etc, in the classes, as a civilian you are required to show that you are not a felon. Military and police are required to show proper ID, etc. Once you have that first good background check on file with that school you don't need to file additional background checks with subsequent course applications. So, there is a bit of a security hole given that one could take a different week long class each year at a place like Gunsite for years without repeating a single course. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ludwig Schwarz Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:28:09 +0200 (MEST) Subject: eskrima: Re: PT Knife Videos for Women.. > > Bill McGrath wrote: > > For example, I would love > > to do a video on women's self defense with a knife, but how do you keep it > > out of the hands of potential rapists? How do you get this info to the > > people who need it the most without it getting into the wrong hands? Any > > thoughts on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Make it available only trough feminist organizations, and allow them only to sell your tapes to women! If you really mean what you are saying, this response is obvious, only that you will not sell nearly as much tapes as if you sell them through normal mail order. ...just my two Pfennigs...;-) Ludwig Schwarz, Berlin, Germany - -- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #264 << Bobby Taboada calls some of the left hand stuff llifting" and "clearing", but I do not know exactly what these words cover. >> I don't know much about the other branch of Balintawak, but I've had a good deal of training in Bobby's system. In it, "lifting and clearing" is the focus of the first grouping system. As I understand it, the other, more traditional, Balintawak doesn't use these (though I assume they still teach the same concepts, they just use a different approach). The first grouping system uses "lifting and clearing" to remove obstacles. A Jun Fan or Wing Chun practitioner would view this as Pak Sao. "Lifting" would be like an upward Pak Sao (i.e.: my opponent's check hand is on my stick hand so I Pak to the underside of his wrist and "lift" his hand so I can strike with my stick). "Clearing" would be more of a horizontal Pak Sao (i.e.: my opponent has just blocked my strike with his stick and I Pak the inside of his wrist to open him up so I can continue my strike, or I Pak the outside of his wrist to effect a trap so I can strike). Reading what I've just written, I realize that these are pretty generalized statements and really only address the more common usage of "lifting and clearing." To elaborate a little bit more (though, of course, this written medium is hardly adequate for this type of explanation), "lifting and clearing" aren't necessarily slaps (but many are). Sometimes you "clear" by doing a Lap Sao to open up the line. Sometimes a "lift" is quite literally effected by grabbing your opponent's hand and lifting it. I hope that this description has been helpful. If someone else can explain it better, please do. It's strange how I can do something hundreds of times and have it firmly ingrained in my body so that it's as simple as walking or reflexive as breathing ... but I can't effectively put it into words to save my life. Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #265 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.