From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #271 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thurs, 24 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 271 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 eskrima: Oops! eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #270 eskrima: Animal's rant forwarded & video questions Re: eskrima: Animal's rant forwarded & video questions eskrima: Re:butt ugly looking scar eskrima: ISBN for Books eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 eskrima: Rights? We don't care about no stinkin' rights! eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:08:35 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 On the current thread of teaching "self-defense" courses, I would like to toss in my 2cts. worth. I used to be the defensive tactics instructor at the correctional facility I work in, and was responsible for teaching custody officers, social services workers, and parole officers, the latter two groups spending a lot of time in the field. I would tell the participants at the outset of training that being expected to defend themselves after completing the required 8 hours of class time was akin to attending a weekend basketball camp to prepare for a game of one-on-one with Michael Jordan. What they were being taught was intended to enable them to protect themselves only long enough to get to a place of safety, to either escape or call for backup. I would reiterate throughout the course that the ONLY way to develop these skills to an acceptable level was to invest the time and practice, practice, and practice some more. And then, after all this instruction and practice, keep in mind that again, the course was not meant to make them streetfighters, but rather to keep them alive to be able to escape. Kim ------------------------------ From: "Katz, Mary Lou" Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:13:29 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Oops! Yvonne wrote: >>Yvonne and the others who say "I refuse to be >>afraid -- I'll walk where I want to, when I want to > >Mary Lou, I didn't say that. I said that the fact of the matter is bad >things happen in "safe places" too. I take the long way, but while it may be >safer, it is never SAFE. So, learn what you can, as much as you can and >practice often. Oops! I'm very sorry -- I hate to be misquoted and I REALLY hate doing it to others. So it turns out we agree! Regards, Mary Lou "Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess." ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:15:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 For Mike Worth... I & I Sports has a very nice Kali jacket for sale, exactly like the one you are looking for. Ads for I & I Sports are in every "Inside Kung-Fu" and "Black Belt" magazine, plus they also have a website...www.iisports.com. Good luck, Kim ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:23:47 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 < Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:33:54 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #270 >beaten by a 'mad escrimador.' You might want to make a 'second' cover out >of some other heavy material to protect the punch/kick cover. > Ringside makes a free standing heavybag that has a Thai attachment for the bottom area. It is supported by a sand base. On the Tai Chi front, anyone familiar with Erle Montaigue's system? I mention him because he mentions Dan Inosanto and did study some Kali while in the Phillipines. Regards, Mark Gibson ------------------------------ From: Ingo Bojak Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:53:46 +0200 (DFT) Subject: eskrima: Animal's rant forwarded & video questions I just wanted to note that I have forwarded Animal's rant to de.rec.sport.budo (which is Germany's rec.martial-arts), because I considered it to be something every MA instructor should think about. I hope both Animal and Ray are OK with that (author's name and the ED are mentioned). Two personal question: the title of that legendary video "Surviving Edged Weapons" sounds particularily interesting to me, since if at all I expect to be attacked with one. If I interpret www.calibrepress.com correctly though, there is no chance for me to take a look at it because I'm not a LEO? Perhaps Tuhon McGrath or somebody else in the know could drop me line if there is a chance to get it. (And no, I'm not a German Hell's Angel trying to find better ways to kill cops and I also wouldn't pass it on...) Also if Ron Balicki is reading this - where would I order your video series "The Defensive Edge" in order to maximize your profits? PAL and paying by credit card would be best... TIA, Ingo - --- "When you come to a fork in the road, take it." Yogi Berra ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Animal's rant forwarded & video questions > Two personal question: the title of that legendary video "Surviving Edged > Weapons" sounds particularily interesting to me, since if at all I expect > to be attacked with one. If I interpret www.calibrepress.com correctly > though, there is no chance for me to take a look at it because I'm not a > LEO? Perhaps Tuhon McGrath or somebody else in the know could drop me line > if there is a chance to get it. (And no, I'm not a German Hell's Angel Check out Mas Ayoob's Police Bookshelf at www.ayoob.com. You can order it from there. However, be advised that this tape isn't about knife fighting techniques as some might think. It is more about how dangerous a knife is. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Bushidosh@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:28:38 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re:butt ugly looking scar don't fret about the scar. Make sure to rub it with coco-butter which will fade the scar significantly, but personally I think it adds character. bushidosh ------------------------------ From: BillyJa695@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:52:15 EDT Subject: eskrima: ISBN for Books Tuhon Bill McGrath, For my information and for those on the list, can you give the ISBN for the Douglas books (Mindhunter, Journey into Darkness, Obsession) and the Becker book (Gift of Fear) ? The information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brian E. Johns Columbus, Ohio ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:22:15 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 In a message dated 99-06-24 10:47:51 EDT, you write: << However, I also know enough that IF it ever occurs, I will (probably) not freeze in panic - my body is trained to react, and I am more confident and aware of possible situations. My body language reflects the fact that I will refuse to be a victim. >> Ummm. Before you say that, go out and take a scenario based combat course from a group like Model Muggings, Rocky Mountain Combat Application Camp or Awakening the Warrior within (you can get to any of them through my website at http://www.diac.com/~dgordon If that is outside of your budget go out and get Emotional Intellegence by Daniel Goleman (also linked) and read the first third of the book about Joseph LeDoux's nuerological "back alley" and how it relates to the Tichner effect and the amygdala. Better known as if you aren't experienced with the emotional trauma of being attacked or verbally assaulted you will probably revert to a default program that you put into place when you were five years old and your mom caught you with your hand in the cookie jar. In other words you're going to geek. I happen to know a state wide forms champion, 4th degree black belt who sat down in shock when a kid who had been giving her son problems took a swing at her on her own doorstep. Okay, folks reality break. In a martial arts tournament, fighting someone your own level of skill, hopefully your own weight and with all the time in the world you only have a 50-50 chance of winning. I know many martial artists who think that their training gives them an edge because - I speculate - that they are planning on fighting an inferior opponent. They think that their training gives them the advantage. What they don't realize that 90% of the problems are caused by 10% of the people. In otherwords you will be up against someone with less training, but more experience with physical violence than you. Now if you go into this thinking that your training is going to give you an advantage, forget it. Odds are the guy came to the situation already prepared to take it physical. You're martial arts, might just give you a 20 percent chance against an experienced mugger. Now the good news, without the training you'd only have about a 2% chance ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:28:41 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Rights? We don't care about no stinkin' rights! A Howl etc: What good fun! Legal issues are quite boring in comparison. ;-) Todd wrote: > I can provide plenty of evidence off-line for anyone who is > interested, but let's consider one small example. Take a look at the tall, > large framed men you know. They tend to hold their heads up, shoulders > back, speak in at least normal tones of voice, and give the impression of > taking up a fair amount of space. Now take a close look at tall, large framed > women. Almost without exception they keep their feet close together, hunch > their shoulders, and speak with very soft voices in order to give the > impression that they are smaller than they actually are. > The not terribly subtle message that women get is "Shut up, sit straight, > and be a nice compliant feminine lady or you will get raped. You have no > right to walk the streets without a [male] escort. Your only safety lies > in neurotically limiting yourself." , , , No, other things being equal (that's English for "ceterus parabus") this behavior of tall, large framed women is because of biological reasons; most women prefer a man who is bigger and stronger than them, and most men prefer to be bigger and stronger too. Thus, for tall, large framed women the pool of qualified mates is smaller and they adjust as you describe-- unless and until they find a bigger and stronger man. Given the PC pressures against "masculinity", this can be rather tough. Whatever you think about "femininity", I would suggest that it is misleading to say that it is taught as an anti-rape technique. As for the "right" to walk the street escortless, well that's true but so what? There was a case in NYC a year or so back where terrible things were done to some well dressed individuals who walked in Central Park one night. Of course they had the "right" to do so-- they were also f$%^&^g idiots. It is not neurotic to realize that you are smaller and weaker and have between your legs what some would take by force. You cannot change this anymore than you can repeal the law of gravity because it is unfair to fat people. > As Marc and others have pointed out crime is very seldom a random act > which appears suddenly out of the blue. The bad guys don't want to work > any harder for what they are after than they have to and generally assess > their victims for anywhere from seconds to months. Who are they going to > choose, someone who smiles, makes herself small, goes out of her way to > appear non-threatening, and is willing to imprison herself in order not > to be noticed by bad people or someone who acts confidently, assertively, > takes up space, makes noise, and isn't afraid to cause trouble? Not the point. The point is the I-can-walk-anywhere,-its-my-right, I-won't-be-oppressed-because-I'm-a-woman attitude. Story: I think I may have posted about it a couple of years ago, so I'll be brief: About 20 years ago in southern Mexico a Mexican friend of mine and I spent three days (with the prospect of MANY more) in a Mexican prison because we had to defend two American girls because they felt that to dress according to local mores would oppress them. (They were in shorts, after dark, and one had long blond hair, they other was quite fair skinned as well). All their bravado went right out the window as soon as four drunken locals, mistaking them for hookers, grabbed one of them to drag her off. Fortunately for them they were escorted by two men willing and able (I had the equivalent of brass knuckles) to fight the four sleazebags. But for that they would have been thoroughly fornicated in some ravine just outside of town. And in his mini-masterpiece, Animal wrote: > I have a saying when I teach that goes "There is no man on this planet who > hasn't faced the raw reality of swallow pride or swallow blood." Is there any > man here who did not have the sickening realization in the school locker room > that if he didn't shut up and back down, he would get his butt kicked? That > is something few women have experienced. Rare is the man who argues with > another without the inherient understanding that it could go physical. As > politically incorrect as this next statement is, if you look at it, how much > of macho male behavior is actually dedicated to avoiding a fight while > allowing both parties to save face? Think about it. Woof woof woof...let's > not fight. Very astute points, including the one about woofing. Our culture teaches that women should never be hit, the man is always wrong-- even if its Woody Allen hitting GI Jane. It is very much a pedestal. I agree with this pedestal, but it should be recognized as such by those on it. There are some women who are oblivious to this however, and they can act in ways that really test the social conditioning upon which the pedestal rests. It can be a deep shock when they run into (provoke?) a man who doesn't believe in the pedestal-- Animal's comment on Post Trauma Stress Disorder being very much on point. Stephen B. wrote: "Point 3. There are as many aggressive females as males both in words and physical abilities." What can one say? Rocky's comet beckons you. and: "neither, I think, do women generally want to be made to feel that they shouldn't or can't go certain places simply because they are women." What's what you "want" got to do with it? I want to fly, but gravity doesn't care. I grew up in NYC and I didn't "want" to have to adjust my behavior to deal with street realities, (Bill does not exaggerate) but I'm here today because I did. Woof, Crafty PS: Wrapping up the legal liability thread: Thanks to MRS. Mary Lou KATZ (Congratulations ML) for her quickie research showing the absence cases holding legal liability for instructors. But I would close on this ominous note: Paladin Press has lost a case in which it printed/sold a book on how to hire/be a hitman which someone used as a guide for an actual murder. The tobacco companies have gotten nailed for tobacco and for lying (but who actually believed them?) and now the tobacco cases are being used to go after gun manufacturers. Liquor is next. Truly Orwellian! I heard in the wind several years ago of a certain prominent instructor who was being investigated by certain federal authorities for teaching knife and stick to a racist group. Hypothetical: Instructor teaches knife to such a group, one of whom uses the knowledge and skills to commit murder. Victim's family gets wind of the instruction and sues. What happens? What do you want to happen? How will the precedent be used? ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #271 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.