From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #273 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 25 June 1999 Vol 06 : Num 273 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #268 Re: eskrima: (no subject) & Rant! eskrima: Total Approach Seminar eskrima: re: Digest V6 #272 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 eskrima: recognizing who was likely to flip out eskrima: Improvised Weapons eskrima: WSD eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #272 eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:56:55 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #268 Mary Lou writes: >Which reminds me of something my first MA teacher always told us: "NEVER >get in the car with the bad guy, because he's going to take you someplace >and do very very very bad things to you. Better to try and run away and >risk getting shot right there on the sidewalk than to have your body dumped >later in Angeles National Forest." Words to live by, in my opinion. Anyone >disagree? Statistically the advice is absolutely correct. If you go you are in very great danger of never coming back again. It's one of those cases where you might as well pull out all the stops. You don't have anything to lose by doing so at that point. ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:26:31 -0400 Subject: Re: eskrima: (no subject) & Rant! > >From: Reisya@aol.com >Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:31:53 EDT >Subject: eskrima: (no subject) > >First of all, *as a general rule* I don't think women can 'hang with the >boys' when it comes to raw, physical violence > >Dave, Dave, Dave - First a knife is the great equilizer, The bigger you are >the easier to cut you with!!! I agree that men are more comfortable with >raw violence (there are always exceptions), but the point of fact is a women >has it in her also, attack her child etc. My point is to teach her how to >get to that feeling and use it in her self defense on only her child etc. I >still beleive the technique will overcome the physical, and have seen it >work. > >On a personal note, there are ment books for women outh there regarding >self-defense. 99% written by men. As a women having done one style or >another since I was 8, I know the man's take on it, I want women's take on >it. In point of fact, women feel and have said to me, that they hear it, >beleive in it etc a lot more went said and demonstrated by a women. That is >not to say I won't buy any of your books, guys (yek, I buy every thing animal >writes - just to broaden by vocabulary). >Point of fact is most women, want to hear it from women. Yvonne, My point wasn't that women can't fight, but that men are naturally more comfortable with and have a larger capacity for raw violence as a rule of thumb. It seems we agreed, but I didn't make my own point clear enough. I also agree that a woman protecting her child is a force to be reckoned with when it comes to the capacity for raw violence. The problem, as you yourself stated is getting them to be able to manifest that same ferocity in defense of herself. As for the knife being a "great equalizer", that's debatable. Go to Bladeforums.com and ask around, you might be surprised what you hear. The knife is only a tool (same with a stick) IMO, the real weapon is the intent and resolve of the person holding it. Unless you are willing to use a weapon (any weapon) to it's fullest potential, or to the extent necessary, you shouldn't carry it, let alone pull it out. Personally, I judge teachers by their physical skills and their ability to convey those skills and that's it because I'm there to learn those skills. Well ok, their personality counts too.... if they're a raging a$$ I won't train with them. I agree skill *can* overcome the physical. I've seen it too, but have also seen some very skilled technicians get a mud hole stomped in the a$$ because their intent/resolve was not sufficient to deal with a sudden, massively violent, attack. BTW, when I was in college, I was part of a university program providing self-defense seminars to the girls and I can't believe some of the disgraceful bs I heard. To prepare for the program we observed rape counseling sessions, to get some sense of what the women had been through, and I can tell you it was a real eye opener. I can't describe the rage I felt and still feel when I think about it (feeling it right now in fact). We used to recommend that the girls call their boyfriends to come & get them rather than walk home alone late at night. One girl semi-laughingly said "My boyfriend wouldn't come & get me!" My response was "Get a new boyfriend...the one you have isn't worth a sh*t!"....you could have heard a pin drop. To this day I have the lowest opinion of sexual predators and a harsh opinion on how they should be dealt with. Let's just say that I'd like to apply the FMA principle of "defanging the serpent" and Yvonne....I'd let you use your knife! Time to go for a walk and calm down a little. Sorry for the rant. Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...'til you can find a big stick." ------------------------------ From: "Kyud" Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:32:19 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Total Approach Seminar Greetings to all, and happy Birthday Ray with the Digest. Keep it up. Total Approach Organization " TAO " Annual Training Camp July 24 - 25 1999 The TAO Camp will be held on the grounds of the Marian Shrine, Don Bosco Retreat Center in West Haverstraw, NY. Scheduled Instructors Sifu Dave Elwood GrandMaster Leo Fong Master Marco Lala Thomas J. Nardi, Ph.D. Further info: Thomas J. Nardi, Ph.D. 168 North Middletown Rd. Nanuet, NY. 10954 (914) 623-6400 Further info at: http://www.wizard.com/~kyud/koinonia.html Click the TAO button, then scheduled seminars. ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:25:32 +0100 Subject: eskrima: re: Digest V6 #272 Animal said: Now, if a woman can do that about protecting her child, why can't she do that about protecting herself? This is something of a phenomenon that you hear about now and then. You hear about a guy that is stuck under his car and someone lifts it up with superhuman strength that would otherwise be impossible. I think the medical types might zone in here but I believe we have a psychological cut off which is a safety zone. Lifting too much can cause injury and pain so we are limited in order to protect ourselves. Every now and then something causes a by pass of the restrictor but it is only in extreme cases. How to tap into that? That would be a wonder to know. pat ------------------------------ From: Joey Gil Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:52:04 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #269 >From: Luis Pellicer >Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:57:28 +0800 >Subject: [none] > >HAs Dan Inosanto ever been to the Philippines? If not would anybody know >why so? >LSPIII I'm pretty sure he has. I remember my old Guro telling me that Guro "Lucky" Lucaylucay introduced him to some of the old masters...or maybe that was the masters here in the US... ------------------------------ From: Ted Truscott Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:53:22 -0800 Subject: eskrima: recognizing who was likely to flip out From: "Jeffrey Monaghan" wrote: Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:00:42 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Improvised Weapons I don't know if any of you people do this...it could just be that I'm strange.....nah (!!), but here's a game/exercise that is both fun & educational. Where ever you are right now, stop and look around for 5 seconds, and identify as many improvised weapons (within arms reach) as possible. To clarify, guns/sticks/bolos/knives are NOT improvised weapons, so if you happen have one within arms reach that's great but it doesn't count for this exercise. I say within arms reach, because if you're ever attacked for real, it's unlikely that you'll have more time to arm yourself than it takes to reach out your arm. 5 seconds is a very long time and you won't have that much time in a real attack, but it's a starting point and you should allow yourself less time as you get better at this. Don't annalize them, just spot them & move on. After your 5 seconds are up, go back and really annalize each one & how it could be used as a weapon. Pick it up, hold it different ways, swing it, whatever it takes for you to confirm if it would be a decent choice. Note your good & bad choices. This exercise does 2 things: 1.) It gets you accustomed to and hopefully more proficient at seeing the potential weapon in everyday items. 2.) It gets you accustomed to paying attention to your surroundings in general. The two worst places I've found, as far as providing the fewest improvised weapons are: 1.) public bathrooms (most everything is bolted down - gee I wonder why? ;^) and 2.) my car (it's relatively un-cluttered but I've seen some that were a weapon rich environment ;^). Find anything interesting? HTH. Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...'til you can find a big stick." ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:15:25 EDT Subject: eskrima: WSD From Animal Branwen wrote the first two points. >; what I meant is simply that women specifically shouldn't be told "walk the extra 5 minutes to avoid danger"...EVERYONE (men women cats dogs >etc) should be told these things, I do. Common sense is not sexism. It works equally well for both genders However, if you remember the orginal post I mentioned that otherwise competent assertive women seem to have a harder time accepting the idea than their male counterparts. >Women, moreso than men, do need to be taught to realize that IF you are going to hit someone, you had better make it count. If you are not prepared to do that, then your training will not be as effective, and could even be dangerous. THANK YOU! I cannot tell you how important pointing that out is! Especially since - and boy am I going to catch hell for this statement - my research indicates that in a majority of date/acquaintance rapes, the woman actually intitiates the physical violence. Yes the guy is grabbing, yes the guy is invading and yes he is being an aggressor, however the first physical blow is delivered by the woman. Now the bad news it is usually in the form of an ineffective slap or hit. Instead of deterring the male, it opens the door to further physical violence. The guy goes "oh you want to play that way, huh?" Its not a deterrent, it's a go-ahead signal.Think about it guys what is your reaction to someone hitting ineffectively? Having said that though, I have no problem with women hitting first. In fact, I often say "go for it." But if she takes it physical, she has to drop the guy. I am talking silat elbows to the jaw and diaphram as appetizers. If he is still standing, then she gets really mean. No means No, especially when it is delivered by knocking the wind out of the guy or knocking him on his butt. If it has gone far enough to hit him, it has gone far enough to drop him. While Eva wrote: >With due respect, if these women are your students and they do not believe >your arguments (which I have no doubt you have made), can not you just >demonstrate them how wrong they are? I am sure you are able to do this >without seriously hurting anything else than their pride :-) I think I should clarify something. I teach no nonsense self-defense classes AND I give lectures to businesses, organizations and at colleges. I am also affiliated with the local chapter of a TKD school here in Castle Rock CO. So the people who come to me are not all MA students, nor are they all "my" students. First off, the women who come to my classes are the ones who WANT to learn. They know there is a problem and are willing to work at it. (Although I used to get snotty teenagers until I started insisting that mom, who sent them in the first place, accompany them. Now mom says "You will listen to this man!"). I also have a small and loyal (all be it, deeply disturbed) student body at the TKD school, most of them are already black belts. These people are not a problem. Now we move onto Animal makes a major faux paus. I caused a major uproar at the TKD school when I addressed a blackbelt meeting about an upcoming WSD class. Here are a bunch of female black belts, the head one is the 4th degree who sat down when actually attacked -- all of them are convinced they know self-defense. Yet, they don't come to my classes. After all they are black belts, right? TKD is a good style for self-defense right? I didn't want to insult anyone so I decided to demonstrate on a large framed woman who is a brown belt. I told her to throw a punch in the air. She did. I then told her to hit me in the chest -- Hard. She launched a proper punch, from a proper stance and I didn't block move or shed. She pegged me hard and I jsut looked at her. She was shocked that I handn't folded. Then I told her to hit me as hard as she could. She cocked back and I tackled her. Ohhh reality break. Not only that someone can take a punch and keep on coming, but that there are people out there who might not want to stand back and spar. I then showed her how to keep a nasty man from being able to do the same. Thing is, nobody seemed to remember that once I had shown her how to keep from being tackled, she sent me flying across the room and retained her feet. They were all in an uproar that I had cheated. How dare I not attack in a way they had practiced for! Yet all evidence to the contrary they clucked about how their self-defense stuff would work in a real situation and not against someone who was as well trained as me. You have to be well trained to tackle someone? Oh well. To this day, these women look at me askew like I am a rabid dog. They haven't attended my regular classes and they haven't attended my WSD seminars. In fact, since most the people who attend these come from outside the school I suspect that they are poo pooing these classes when potential students ask. It is however in lectures that I come across these kind of problems the most. A company or organization calls me in to speak. There, surrounded by their normal environment and using words alone, they feel safe. What I am saying offends their ideas of how the world works. They interpret common sense as cowardice. I can only speculate that they feel that by arguing with me and proving to themselves that they can safely do so, they can do the same with criminals and the habitually violent. For a while I took a concealed unloaded gun with me. During one such incident where I was trying to explain to the group that criminals have an alien philosophy and are willing to do things that they wouldn't dream of, a woman became argumentative. I robbed her. When she hesitated to hand me her watch, I pulled the trigger. Can you say the fecal matter hit the oscilating blades? It was a little too real for them. Now Todd Ellner teaches a WSD class up in Portland. And I hope he will back me up on the fact that the people who attend his 10 week physical classes are different than those who attend lectures. Students are willing to do the work. They have open minds. How you teach these women is different than how you have to approach the subject with someone who is convinced that her competence extends beyond her area of expertise. In closing, I would like to add that I have worked with other "combat courses" and amazingly enough, the women who have gone through them are the ones who eat up my crime avoidance program. Having experienced being attacked and knowing that they can defend themselves, they are the ones who have no problem with walking bodly wide of trouble. Yeah they can do it, but if you don't have to, WHY?! ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #272 << >I am constantly amazed at some women's stubborn > refusal to believe that there are both men and > situations out there that they cannot > handle. With due respect, if these women are your students and they do not believe your arguments (which I have no doubt you have made), can not you just demonstrate them how wrong they are? I am sure you are able to do this without seriously hurting anything else than their pride :-) >> There was a woman I used to train with who had this attitude problem. She thought that she was bigger and badder (at 5'2" 130 lbs) than anyone and everyone else. My instructor tried to tell her this on many occasions and tried to illustrate the point to her on many occasions. When that didn't work (he's Guru after all ... of course he can hit her at will), I tried to get the point across in a sparring session. The few shots she landed weren't even worth my notice and I was able to hit her pretty much anywhere (including tapping her forehead with my fingers which could easily have been an eyejab) literally at will. She never did get it. In fact, she's still out there trying to prove that she is the best and baddest ... as Animal so quaintly put it ... a "statistic waiting to happen." Some people just never learn. Mike _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #273 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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