From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #283 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 2 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 283 In this issue: eskrima: Alienable Rights eskrima: Re: Gun Control eskrima: Re: Can we move on now?! eskrima: Re: Firearm Ownership eskrima: just a few thoughts eskrima: Re: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #275 eskrima: Silat question Re: eskrima: Re: Can we move on now?! eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kirk_righter@peoplesoft.com Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 16:32:05 GMT Subject: eskrima: Alienable Rights Sticks sez: <> God given rights? But I don't believe in god, so imagine how that sounds to someone like me. I'm thinking the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Salem witch hunts, etc. As far as the 2nd amendment goes, people have been kind enough to send emails containing information on this, and I may be coming around to a different point of view, but I'm still left with questions concerning reasonable weapons, usage, background checks, etc. And Ray sez: <> Gosh Ray, thanks for those kind words of advice and your concern for my debating skills. Now here are some for you: debate involves more than just facts, figures, and statistics. Try being a little less arrogant and condescending, and you may win more people over to your side. Kirk ------------------------------ From: Ben Climaco Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Gun Control > > While I don't believe in > > the banning of all guns, > > I certainly do believe that there should be rather > > strict controls as far > > as what kinds of weapons Joe Average Citizen > should President Marcos had all guns registered. Then when he declared martial law, his first order was to turn in your guns or die. Lots of tyrants and other statist scum have done the same thing. Of course, here in America we are different. Americans are smarter and will never follow a dictator. We all know it can't happen here. > >I don't believe Joe > > should be allowed to own > > landmines, flamethrowers, or fully automatic > > weapons. > Flamethrowers and full auto weapons are made for specialized purposes and are not that effective anyway. The US no longer uses flamethrowers because they are almost as dangerous to the user as the target, they are heavy, and only have a few seconds of fuel in the tanks. They ARE legal in the US, but I've never heared of one used in a crime. Full auto weapons are mostly used for supressive fire. Simply stating that you are against them shows how little you understand the subject. > > The problem I have with pro-gunners is that they > > lack the imagination to > > avoid an all-out, balls-to-the-wall approach to > > fighting any sort of gun > > control, instead of using their voting power and > > technical expertise to > > come up with sensible legislation. It's much > easier > > to just use brute force > > and take the "simple solutions to complex > problems" What the statists are doing is chipping away at the right to keep and bear arms bit by bit. Every "compromise" is giving them new ground for the next offensive. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. They did the same thing with taxes. Originally the income tax was only supposed to be a small percentage paid by the very rich. Look where we are today. The same scum wanting to ban guns in America also want to ban martial arts weapons. How many of you remember all that idiotic legislation in the 1980's? Many weapons, sepecially from Ninjutsu were banned in several states, thoug the federal laws were not passed. These were mostly weapons that few people knew how to use and few functional models were ever available. Ben Climaco _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: David Fulton Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 14:03:53 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Can we move on now?! >From: Remy Sticks >Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 16:20:00 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #281 > >Kirk >Let me respond to some of your comments. > >>I don't believe Joe >> should be allowed to own >> landmines, flamethrowers, or fully automatic >> weapons. > > Private citizens can't own these things. I think he was simply stating examples of things he didn't think joe citizen should be allowed to own. I have to say it seems pretty reasonable not to want joe citizen to be able to own these particular weapons. >>I happen to have a lead >> weighted hickory 'tire knocker' which I use to check >> my tire pressure, just >> like truckers use. Yes officer, I prefer this method >> to a tire gauge ;-) ) > >You do on the other hand advocate pulling an end run on the law and >hope to get away with a wink and a smile. Do you advise your students >overtly or covertly to do the same thing? I hope you are more >responsible then this. > I see a lot of people making comments like Kirk's, but you pick him to slam about it. Does that seem reasonable? Do you really have a problem with him "pulling an end run on the law" by carrying a 'tire knocker', or is it that you have problem with him for not sharing your position on gun control? >> The problem I have with pro-gunners is that they >> lack the imagination to >> avoid an all-out, balls-to-the-wall approach to >> fighting any sort of gun >> control, instead of using their voting power and >> technical expertise to >> come up with sensible legislation. It's much easier >> to just use brute force >> and take the "simple solutions to complex problems" > >The problem with you anti gunners is that you forget that we have the >in alienable God given right to own these weapons. Read the 2nd >ammendment and USCJ to understand this. IF we do in fact have an inalienable right to arms, and this is debatable (keep in mind that the Constitution is a 'living document'), I seriously doubt that God had anything to do with it. I've never seen God's signature on the U.S. Constitution, so one can't say for sure what he/she/it/whatever intended. However, looking at what most religions attribute to 'God', I would tend to attribute weapons in general more to man than 'God'. >You also stated that life liberty etc.. come before the ammendments. >Your talking about to different documents. And my uncle lives in Florida, so? >Make no mistake about it if guns are banned it is only the beginning >ALL weapons will be banned. Remmeber the priest in the nazi death camp >"When they came for the Jews I said nothing because I wasn't a Jew >etc... When they came for me there was no one to speak for me." If this >doesn't do it for you how about Benjamin Franklin "Gentlemen if we >don't hang together we will all hang seperately. I don't recall Kirk mentioning "banning" guns though he did mention controlling who can get them. It seems reasonable to "control" (within reasonable limits). Would you, for example, prefer that there be no control over who gets a driver's permit, so that anyone could get one regardless of how well they drive or how mentally stable they are? Hmmm, bad example ;o) You agree we ALL have rights, correct? Where do YOUR rights end? How about ... where they infringe upon someone else'? Does that sound reasonable? Do you agree that I have a right protect myself (I'm sure you do)? Why shouldn't my right to protect myself include enacting reasonable legislation aimed at preventing someone who is mentally unstable or a convicted criminal (especially violent criminals) from possessing lethal weapons? I like you Ben Franklin quote, "Gentlemen if we don't hang together we will all hang separately.", btw. If we are to "hang together" as a society, don't we need to exercise control over those members who are unable or unwilling to exercise control over themselves? Respectfully, Dave Fulton dfulton@computerpackages.com Filipino/Indonesian Martial Arts Club Frederick, Md. "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...'til you can find a big stick." ------------------------------ From: J H Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 18:17:59 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: Firearm Ownership Well said, Sticks! Fry Bread Boy _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: LeighanS@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 14:55:28 EDT Subject: eskrima: just a few thoughts from:leighans@aol.com inalienable rights??????what fairytale do you live in....the only rights we enjoy today were secured by brute force(remember that war of independence with england all those years back?).......and those rights were further protected by those who have given the ultimate sacrifice so that future generations(thats us) would be able to enjoy them......a right can be taken away very easily if one does not protect that right(regardless of which right that may be)..........with freedom comes responsibility...you want to be free to do your thing, then you also have to tolerate the things that others do......oh yeah...and that means that you are also responsible for your own actions.......society doesnt make a person rob a liquor store, laziness and greed do...........we all have the same choices to make, and many of us share similar backgrounds with many different groups of peoples........why arent the rest of us robbing, mugging and raping?...............as far as womens self defence courses go and self defence courses in general, the way they are presented makwes them a waste of time................the only womens self defence course that ever had any real life practicalitywas(this might show your age if you remember this one) the one that ma bell used to send its operators through that had to work the late shifts........they taught things like fight long enough to get the hell out of dodge, attract as much attention as possible as quickly as possible and (get this), improvised weaponry.....like using the purse as a flail, turning those rat-tail combs into a nasty piece of business, and of course those other items such as ball-point pens......in essence, it was the down and dirty catfighting, eyescratching, maim-and-run class that everyone seems to be looking for now......but alas, it is no more, just as ma bell is no more................besides the technique aspect, it also stressed the mental part as well......of course, i dont know if this was taught universally to all ma bell operators or just to the ones in alabama and the surrounding regions.......might be worth it to talk with some of these ex-operators in their fifties and sixties to find out what was taught and how............ciao............leighan ------------------------------ From: Steven Drape Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 12:51:57 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: > >From: Jon Skelley >Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1999 13:20:28 -0400 (EDT) >Subject: eskrima: Schools in Sarasota, Fl > >Hello all > >I will be in Sarasota, Florida at the end of July and was wondering if >anyone on the list knew of a good place to train? One of Dan Inosanto's students (female) used to have a school in Sarasota. I haven't heard anything about it for about 6 years, but I assume that it is still there. It was a successful school, as I recall. Good luck. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Steven Drape Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 13:05:27 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #275 >1 - Can you tell us more about Saavedra? Is this the one who taught >Venancio (Anciong) Bacon and the Canetes? >2 - Can you tell me more about the fight where the fighter had his skull >crushed? I am wondering if this is the one where Dr. Lopez bandaged the guy >up >after Anciong hit him. He said that the fellow went into convulsions, but >he did not think that he had died. As for the first question, the answer is yes. This Saavedra was the main man from which all the Balintawak and several other Cebu-based systems evolved. He, along with his brothers, was killed by the Japanese Kempetai during the WW II occupation, and as far as I know, there are no Saavedras promoting the system today. If anyone knows anything different, please let me know. The second question I can't answer. I don't know if Dr. Lopez was there or not, but the man was hit on the left side of his head, and his right eye popped out of his head, his jaw was broken and hanging and of course, he was unconcious. He died later, but I have no information on who might have treated him after the fight. Steve ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Kaesa@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 17:54:19 EDT Subject: eskrima: Silat question Hello, I have a silat question for you guys. Are there any forms that are "known" by most or alot of silat systems? Kinda like in karate, different styles use the same katas or just have a different name? Are there any jurus or forms like that in silat? Thanks, Joe ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Can we move on now?! > You agree we ALL have rights, correct? Where do YOUR rights end? How about > ... where they infringe upon someone else'? Does that sound reasonable? Do > you agree that I have a right protect myself (I'm sure you do)? Why > shouldn't my right to protect myself include enacting reasonable legislation > aimed at preventing someone who is mentally unstable or a convicted criminal > (especially violent criminals) from possessing lethal weapons? .... We already have that legislation. Can we move on now.?. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 15:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #283 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.