From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #315 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 30 July 1999 Vol 06 : Num 315 In this issue: eskrima: Choose carefully what you ask for eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #314 eskrima: Small knives eskrima: Re: North Carolina Policy eskrima: licenceing eskrima: Regulation of Martial arts eskrima: Bill 1460 info. eskrima: . .......................................................................... Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body of an e-mail (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last two years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:40:37 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Choose carefully what you ask for A Howl of Greeting to All: > In regards to North Carolina wanting to license and regulate martial arts > schools, I fail to see what the problem with this is. I have read the > proposal, and to me it seems that what they are trying to accomplish is right > on the money (no pun intended here). > They are attempting to weed out those with a criminal history, those who are > not qualified, and those of, as they say, "questionable character". I would > like to see this happen on the basis of the last point alone. There's a lot of good teachers in martial arts of questionable character and history. Some would consider me one. God alone knows what criteria the government bureaucrats who actually would administer this thing would use. > I can not tell > you all how many instructors of "questionable character" I personally know of > that are in the position of being a strong influence in the eyes of the > gullible student. I can name three very prominent "instructors" who make a > regular practice of 1.) dealing cocaine through his seminars, In case you haven't noticed, this is already quite illegal. > 2.) seducing > his female students and the wives of his male students, even daughters of his > students, Note the pedestal notion underlying this: Women are to weak, fragile, naive, etc. to decide with whom they will sleep. (If you are mean underage girls, then this is already illegal.) Anyway, you think this is something a regulatory regime can deal with?!? Are we to have the "he said, she said" of Clarence Thomas vs. Anita Hill? Bill Clinton vs Paula Jones and so many others? Seduction is to be illegal?!?!? Before I was married that would make me a serial felon!!!!! And what can we call a man who lets another man hit on his wife? Idiot will do, but we could go stronger than that. >and 3.), a master who is no longer with us who, when visiting one > of the many schools that fell under the auspices of his organization, would > require the head instructor of that school to provide him with a woman for > the duration of his stay. He preferred teenage girls, BTW. Ditto. > I also know of > several instructors who charge outlandish fees upfront, then fail to provide > the promised lessons. This is commonly known as fraud, and is already illegal. Also, the market does punish such people. > Yes, I know that such regulation does step on one of > our most basic inalienable rights, but so far it seems that a lot of people > are failing to show the type of maturity needed to operate their businesses > in a responsible manner. A remarkable sentence. No personal offense meant, but there is a clever quote the gist of which is that those who would give up their freedom in exchange for security wind up with/deserve neither. There is a mechanism for dealing with immature business owners-- its called The Free Market. Take your business elsewhere, not to court. >The regulation asked for in NC would require > instructors to pass background checks concerning past legal problems, carry > liability insurance, be certified in 1st aid/CPR, and be qualified in the art > they claim to teach. Doesn't sound like much too ask to me. I can pass all > of the above criteria...if anyone has a problem with meeting the > requirements, then well...maybe they shouldn't be in such a position of > public trust. Martial arts are a business like anything else, and by the > very nature of providing a service, and the position the instructor holds in > the eyes of his community, then it should be regulated and licensed like any > other service-providing business. If your kids were taking swimming lessons, > the above listed criteria would be the very least you would expect of the > swimming instructor. Martial arts are absolutely no different. > Considering the high esteem, indeed the almost godlike way we view a martial > arts instructor, there should be no question as to the validity of this > proposal. > BTW, no, I'm not a communist...just a parent. > > Kim Would "past legal problems" disqualify an applicant? Disturbing the peace? Smoking pot? Shoplifting? As we all know, martial arts has turned around many lives. What happens to someone denied a chance to earn a living? Carry liability insurance? Who the hell would insure what I do??? Instead I operate as a corporation, and have everyone agree to "No suing no one for no reason for nothing no how no way." What you propose would prohibit me from a life I have spent years building. CPR? Like most teachers, I confess I'm not certified. Probably a good idea, but , , , so what? Its probably a good idea for anyone in a public serving profession-- like waiters. Someone in a restaurant is more likely to keel over than in one of my classes. When I knock someone out, its on purpose. "Be qualified in the art which they profess to teach"? Good god! Look at all the certification squabbles and related squabbles in martial arts! Without entering into the merits in any way whatsoever, is Bill McGrath to be prevented by the State from teaching because he and his teacher had a falling out? And why should people of non-lineage (!) be denied the right to offer themselves to others? I have a pure-bred Akita, but surely I do not seek to deny others the right to have mutts. Some of the finest dogs are mutts. If I want to learn applied knife defense, someone who has been there in prison might be a real good teacher. "A position of public trust"? "Godlike way we view a martial arts instructor"?!? I hate to break this to you, but the world of martial arts is not some Norman Rockwell painting. Much of it is about dealing with the dark side of human nature and some of the best teachers are not unfamiliar with this dark side. I would really be upset if the Government were to send the police in (and be clear, that is what Law reduces to) to prohibit me from training with them. Just because you have children (and in a few weeks I will have my first) does not mean the whole world has to be limited to what is suitable for them. When I read a book, I do not want to be limited to what is suitable for a child. I think what underlies your point of view is a particular vision of a certain type of martial art school. Uniforms, bowing, quasi-Asian rituals, katas, children's class is where it makes its money, contracts, perhaps payment in advance, etc. But, in my opinion what you fail to appreciate is that much of martial arts is not this. If you want to say that those who have children in their care, (e.g. a soccer league) should meet certain requirements, you may have a case. But that is not what is proposed here. What is proposed is regulating martial arts. There is a whole world of martial arts without children. No personal offense meant in any of this Kim. No doubt you are well intentioned, but what you propose is that much of the martial arts world be banned in order to make the world safe for children and idiots. I'll agree that children are a separate case, but if you try to make things idiot proof, they'll just build a better idiot. In a sense, martial arts is about taking responsibility for yourself. What you propose is IMHO, the opposite. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:22:17 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #314 HELL NO TO REGULATION, The very idea that someone is going to judge me and see if im certified to do what i love and have been doing for over 10yrs(teach stick-fighting and self-defense) makes steam roll out of my ears! Sure I have a "certificate of black belt" big harry deal though! I know of so called 10th dan"masters" who would no doubt pass such a regulatory code but havnt the foggiest notion as to what real combat is all about much less how to teach it, because they are far too concerned with perfecting their Kata and getting the next monthly payments in order to keep the doors open..All they have is a "so called history" and a bunch of students who call them "Ohh Great One". As far as weeding out those with questionable character===It will never happen--come on,do you really think someone who doesnt even know me can effectively judge my character? And where would this leave those who freely choose to train in a non-tradictional style? Or those who choose to start their own thing? Sure,there will always be those who are a joke and a blimish on the Martial Arts sceen but hey, that is the price we must pay here in America.the Proud The free you know.... The goverment in Martial Arts come on!!! get real! Sorry to ramble on guys. Its just one of those things ya know? Mandarigma Barry Meadows bladewerks@aol.com ------------------------------ From: "Devin Reynolds" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:22:06 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Small knives Due to the relevance of knives and FMA, I just wanted to post a link to Sean Perkins webpage. http://www.perkinsknives.com/ He makes really affordable, durable and small knives that are perfect for all sorts of fun. I just recieved two in the mail yesterday and am incredibly happy with my purchase, and thought that I should pass along the web page. Sincerest regards, Devin - --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ------------------------------ From: pjm@buffnet.net Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:41:37 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: North Carolina Policy "They are attempting to weed out those with a criminal history, those who are not qualified, and those of, as they say, "questionable character". I would like to see this happen on the basis of the last point alone. I can not tell " People with in the martial arts community have trouble deciding who is qualified and who is not. I can't imagine what goverment agency could do it. As it is we complain about whose art is legit, who really earned a black belt and just didn't host a bunch of seminars, and a whole host of objections to various arts and the people in them. In the politically correct world we live in I really don't want the goverment to make any decisions regarding the martial arts in the same way I don't want congress to run a war or a hospital. And you can be certain that as a parent I would certainly want the goverment to keep the heck of the way. God forbid that my children would grow up with any of the qualities inherent in modern govement. An in reagrd to the quality and character of the martial artist; were any of the legends angels. Would any of them stand up to the moral scrutiny the goverment expects from everyone else but themselves. heck would you want to train with anyone who didn't have a rag tag background *lol* I'm looking forward to training with Rocky on August 9th, you might not be able to do that in N.C. (No offense Rocky... MOB Rule) Phil Martino ------------------------------ From: "Dave Murray" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:08:54 -0700 Subject: eskrima: licenceing >From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com >In regards to North Carolina wanting to license and >regulate martial arts schools, I fail to see what the >problem with this is. Out of respect to Ray and the list, I'll bite my tongue so the boiling blood won't burn my mouth, and not mention any political reasons. I read it, I'm no lawyer, but it looks like if passed, if you bring in an out of state (or overseas) guru to teach a seminar, he would be subject to arrest for teaching without a proper state martial arts instructor license. Given the number of hours of training, and other hoops to be jumped, they will have built a wall around the state for martial arts. Or so the words seem to say. Imagine what a claim to fame that you would have as the person that invited world renowned grand master guru poba to come and be arrested for teaching his art! Peace and respect, Dave Murray ------------------------------ From: Michael Joshua Vagi Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 23:58:19 +1000 Subject: eskrima: Regulation of Martial arts Hi All, I have been receiving this subscription for the last three months and have found it very insightful and inspiring knowing that there is a wealth of knowledge out there. Anyway getting to the point I wrote a email to Crafty a few months ago about Martial arts legislation in Australia. I agree with most of the ideas with the plan but I do not like others. It is true it will get rid of a lot con men (like a certain karate style that has yellow belts teaching all over Australia, New Zealand & the UK) and the other people who have no idea what to teach. But the thing that concerns me is that every martial arts instructor will on file with the police. I've heard from many sources that this new legislation has already been passed by the Australian government and will come into affect sometime early next year. In N.S.W you are no longer allowed to carry any knives on your person, also double edged weapons are now banned under the new knife laws. To me this just sounds like a huge plan to dis-arm the public so we are defenceless and one more thing I would like to share is that 4 months ago the Newcastle Police department went to every Martial arts suppliers in Newcastle and confiscated all books regarding to weapons, Dim Mak & pressure points. I do not know if this happend to any other Martial arts suppliers in N.S.W please let me know I find this all very interesting Paalam Mike Vagi Black Scorpion Arnis, Newcastle "Fight if you can but never quit" ------------------------------ From: Wschpunyo@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:14:44 EDT Subject: eskrima: Bill 1460 info. Greetings. Here is the information Crafty inquired about. The representative pushing this martial arts license bill is Rep. Beverly M. Earle (D). The E-mail address for her web page is:http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/members/house/representative.pl?sUser ID=34 Her E-mail address is: Beverlye@ms.ncga.state.nc.us I know there are people on both sides of this fence so please write and let her know your opinion. Personally Bills like this worry me. The arts I am involved with are little known when compared to the others in this Karate/Tkd saturated country. Chances are that the so called appointed rep will be from a more "well Known" system. Really? Oh well, lets just give them another little chunk of our personal freedom and trade it in for more taxation and control. For what it's worth, Bill ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #315 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com, directory pub/eskrima/digests. All digest files have the suffix '.txt' Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan System of Eskrima, Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.