From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #320 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 4 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 320 In this issue: eskrima: calling all Datus eskrima: A rose by any other name... eskrima: Question?/My 2 cents on the Bill eskrima: Datu etc ... eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #318 eskrima: Re: Multiple Posts eskrima: Datus and the like eskrima: Re: Koinonia eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #318 eskrima: Things to ponder!! eskrima: Datus ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:59:44 -0700 Subject: eskrima: calling all Datus A Yip: If I am not mistaken the third "Datu" made by Remy Presas is someone by the name of something like "Inoshir Shahala". I probably have mangled the spelling-- no disrespect intended. woof, Crafty Dog PS: Back in the mid 80s, one of the instructors under Guro Inosanto took to calling him "Datu" (which he is in my opinion) but the rest of us just sort of chuckled and the affectation of this individual withered on the vine. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: A rose by any other name... Regarding the title of Datu, I believe the only person that can hand out that title is the President of the RP. Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ From: Ruwach Design Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Question?/My 2 cents on the Bill Does anyone know of a great martial arts school near Whittier, CA, hopefully within a 10-15 mile radius...that teaches either JKD, Kung fu or aikido? I'm trying to keep an eye out for a friend. There is "The Kali Academy" in Whittier, but my friend isn't interested in that. MY 2 CENTS ON THE BILL. As a parent & husband, I sympathize with Kim's situation...however I have to totally agree with Crafty Dog. Take the situation with a female friend of mine, for example: Over dinner this last Friday night, my wife and I were asking her how she liked the new place she just signed up with. It was "kickboxing gym" that appealed particulary to the female society, advertising "Women's Kick Boxing" and etc. Keep in mind that previously when I was asked what styles she should explore before signing up, I had told her about the IMB and Inosanto Academy. Anyway, she didn't seem to happy with the gym. She basically said that it wasn't what she wanted, and there was a very negative environment. She began to tell us, how even while she was talking to a counselor BEFORE signing up, he told her stories about steroid use being rampant in that gym, how the owner of the gym would "blow up" and throw money at people, who tried to get their money back and etc. She ran into an old friend at that same gym who confirmed what the counselor told her and added to it as well. She spent a couple hundred dollars ANYWAY to prepay for 3 years, signed a contract that she couldn't back out of. As sympathetic as my wife and I were, I couldn't understand why in blazes did she sign up, even after finding out all THE NEGATIVE SIGNS, especially by those who worked there. Moral of the story. It's up to the individual to check things out, in this case, you would've thought that the signs would have clued her in but it didn't. Government regulation would not help this, rather may even "certify" these kinds of jerks according to the "governments standards" Just my thoughts... Jose. PS. I have a 2 year old daughter and a son on the way...you bet there gonna be involved in martial arts, and my wife and I along with them. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Danny Alvendia Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Datu etc ... From my understanding the titles of datu, sultan, rajah, etc .... can only be bestowed upon/to by: 1. Heir to the tribe, or throne 2. Datus, Sultans, and Rajah's themselves 3. head of state of the country: President The reason such titles are given in the FMA is because the system of rank is not very clear or lacking in FMA. That is why many FMAers have varying degrees of titles associated with their system(s) of choice. If you look into the FMA there really is no ranking, but in this modern day we need such things to grade or assess the ability of the student. - -- Danny Alvendia dannya@3com.com ------------------------------ From: "lee drew" Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:08:20 PDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #318 The Mexican systems of knife fighting are derived from colonial Spanish influences. During the 18th century, as Spain and other Mediterranean countries began transitioning from swords to knives, these tendencies were carried over to Spanish possessions, (e.g. Mexico, South America, the Caribbean, etc.) Then, as now, the navaja was the blade blade of choice, as it is capable of thrusting as well as slashing. Many manuals were written on its use in combat, the best known of these being the 50+ page "Manual del Baratero, o Arte de Manejar la Navaja," published in Madrid in 1849. Today, the best place to see Mexican blade work is in the outskirts of Puerto Vallarta, where there are still experts in navajas, machetes, and latigos. leesensei@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:41:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Multiple Posts You're absolutely right, Ray ... and I offer my most abject apologies to you and the list. Imagine my chagrin when reading this latest issue and seeing 3 copies of my post. I swear that I only hit the send button once ... I promise. Sincerely, Mike (please Mr. Yahoo Mail, only post this one once :-) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer III Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:44:15 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Datus and the like Yep, I've hear of some that call themselves RAJAS and SULTANS too. I guess that westerners and Kababayans who take these names on, either don't know any better, or have delusions of royalty. This is nothing new in the flaky MA industry. How is this different from the guy who gets his sho-dan after two years of training in some Okinawan military base, gets off the plane back in the US, and miraculously becomes a 10th. degree Kuh-ruh-tee Grand Master Shihan Sensei? (Imagine how silly that would sound and appear to Okinawans) I bet thier favorite food is California Maki. Since they are dealing with a foreign culture, some people don't realize how stupid some of these things they call themselves sound to a homegrown. (I am homegrown) Imagine addressing a US college professor "Master Teacher", or the Dean as "Your Reverent Intellectualness". That's what it sounds like to us. Most of the old Masters over here are called 'Mang' ( A sign of reverence given to people older than ourselves, case in point is Mang Ben Lema the GM of Lema Kali and Escrima) or Tatang. (As Tatang Illustrisimo was called.) Can you imagine the joke if these titled guys came over here and introduced themselves by their 'titles'? Filipino courtesy would probably dictate that they be dealt with politely, if they are polite. (with alot of background snickering) If they are not polite, oh well, ask the guys who came over for the World Tournament several years ago what happened. Hell, while they're at it why not practice a Visayan Escrima style to the beat of Western Mindanao music while wearing silly little outfits which no one out here has seen since our grandparents time. (If our grandparents came from an area of Mindanao the size of San Bernadino county) While they do this, we Filipinos will sing hard-core country and western music, in a heavy Brooklyn accent, dressed as American Indians. Imagine what a sight that would be? ------------------------------ From: Kaesa@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:55:23 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Koinonia Hello, Koinonia Productions is the company founded by Leo Fong who studied with Angel Cabales and Remy Presas, and was a friend and student of Bruce Lee. You can check out the website at www.wizard.com/%7Ekyud/main.html. It has a phone number where you can reach Leo. I called to order something once and talked to him for about 10 minutes about ma's. He was a very nice guy and a fountain of knowledge. Joe ------------------------------ From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:33:22 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #318 Friends, With all due respect to the "moro chieftans",the title Datu is mearly a means to an end. It mearly conveys a position of leadership within the framework of a certain martial art and some of the culture that belongs to that art. Most of the FMA practictioners that I know are "westerners" as you put it. Most of the ones I know who have the title Datu wear it with great respect and admiration for the history and culture of the art.Also,all the datu's I know were betowed the title by Grandmasters of the FMA's.I know of no one who has "assumed" the title. Evidentily the GM's didnt have any problem with granting the title to a "westerner". Are you using that word "westener" as a substitute for "whiteman"? Quite frankly the art would have died long ago if not for the interest of the westerner/whiteman.Seeing as most conflicts in the Filipines are now expressed just like everywhere else in the world with the power of firearms. I'm really not trying to inflame racial hate or biggotry,im just using a little bluntness to make a point. Its kinda like saying that there cant really be any Filipino cowboys.If they herd cattle in the Filipines then there must be a few somewhere.Just like Australia. I think its ok to be proud of your culture and history.No problem. But if you think just because the "blood of the islands" flow through your veins it will make you a better FMA practictioner.......get real. Thats like saying that if Tiger Woods was Scottish he could play better Golf! Mandarigma Barry Meadows ------------------------------ From: Rocky Pasiwk Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:59:04 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Things to ponder!! Questions that need to be directed towards those who would regulate us. 1.) How would they regulate it?? Would their be a test for ability!!! And what ability would be of passing nature. Example: Who here, not including my students, could demonstrate a Ukrainian horse hitch, from Ukrainian Wrestling / Cuentada DeMano, or a single leg gopher throw!! or those of us who don't train with Crafty or Serrada or Pentjak how could we do their tech. And who would be in charge of this form of test, would it ( and I think more than likely) be someone from one of the large perhaps government sponsored ( Korea ) arts like TKD. And if you must be credited by one of these large monetarily successful organizations, how would someone like me fair. Example. my training started in boxing at age 5 fought the local jr. silver gloves at age 6,7,8,9,10,11,12 at the same time I trained in a blendof judo, Ukrainian wrestling and Katch ( how many people even heard of Katch fighting until I started posting a couple years ago ) fighting under my father at age 6 at seven I started Tang Soo Do until age 17 at 12 did Arnis Demano for 1 year, at 14 started Wing Chun Do and Kali, at 15 started Pekiti , and modern arnis, 16 Moncols Balintawak, 17 Anciong Balintawak, and of course played with things all along. Now here's the problem, most of these arts have no ranking system, except TSD which I have been out of for 17 years, and Modern Arnis which most people ( Myself included ) don't take the rank seriously. Now at age 32 I could be told I can't teach. What if some clown is in charge of certifying at age 32 I am considered to young by many traditionalist to teach my own art. Christ look at what happen when I posted something negative about MR. Master, Guru, Sifu, Sensi, Great One Danny, Dan, Daniel Inosanto ( got cover you butt these days ) some clown comes out and says at the wise old age of 18 I probably didn't under stand this situation I was in.Hell at the age of 18 I had 12 years of very hard core training, Which took me to oever 20 different countries by age 20 to teach fight, train or protection for hire. What if now I am to young to teach my art. And what about guys that didn't even start until they where in the 20s 30s or 40s but are excillent martial artist, and in some cases hired by people who have been doing a style for twice as long, but never ventured out side of that style, so as a martial artist never really grew, instead they became a sylist, but know have seen the light, hell I have students like this, they actually have more years in their " Traitional" art than I have been born, but now are training with me cause the fianally realize, that doing a style and being able to Rock and Roll are two different things. 2,nd Obviously the above testing would be use less, so how about a written exam!! We if spelling or grammar counts poor Crafty would be history!!! Not everyone is grammatically gifted like myself :-). Many of the old timers can barely read or write their art is all they have. So this is no good. 3rd, Have a physical test, well once again, guys like me would be history, I carry way to much weight which now know is do to a medical problem, so where would I be or what about some of the older guys whose hips are shot or have physical disabilities, and can't perform any more but still have the know how. 4th Fight for it ( this I like ) but hey lets be real that's not fair either some damn good instructors can't fight for shit but they can teach !! 5th Have an open forum in which the applicant can give oral answers to questions that would help determine if he has what it takes morally and intellectually to teach. Well I am screwed again, I have a dislike for police and the Federal Gov. This stems from doing business with both, I use to teach both and now choose not to. I am really not interested in teaching kids, so why even bother certifying me for that. I hate martial arts philosophers, you know, " You must empty you cup, and the finger pointing away crap!! These are usually used by people who wanna somehow align them selves with great masters of the past. Of course these are probably the things a board would wanna here. Well I say get a bigger cup, and go ahead and look at all the heavenly glory, while I stick my frigin finger in your eye. I come from the beleif, that martial arts is skilled, dirty efficant street fighting, nothing more nothing less, one acheives what may some times seem imposiible and even mystical through proper time, skill and and understanding of body mechanics, and the ability to use them all togeather. If I wanna be philisophical I'll study phiosophy, or go to church. This is not to to say that if others like the Qui Chain Cain route and it make you all warm and tingly inside, hey knock yourself out. And what about those compulsive readers who read every thing in the world about martial arts and know more about TKD then a TKD master but can't throw a kick, but could easily B.S his way past a board of examiners. Hell look at how many gun experts are on this list, they know everything about a gun, all the proper catch phrases, but have never shot at anyone. Hey having been shot and shot at a few to many times I want the guy that can shoot and kill on my sidet, no regrets no hesitation, not the guy that can tell me how many fps or psi my Browning hi hits with, for Christ sakes. 6th the criminal back ground, well now I think most of us agree the rapist and molesters have no business teaching, ( in Rocks world they would be tortured, healed and tortured some more ) of course we don't live in Rocks perfect world:-) of course this type of thinking would probably disqualify me, you know not being P.C and all.So if a guy has a felony charge does this make him a bad man!!!! Well lets see I'll be willing to bet that about 80% of the people on this digest are Felons, just not convicted!!! What's!! That you say Rocks totally lost his mind, well lets see boys and girls, how many of you law abiding citizens and trust worth LEO's have uttered these words " Hey dud make me a copy of the training tape I 'd like to check it out. Anyone ever accidentally, innocently bounced a check for more than $100.00, well most business owners know that everyone makes a boo boo, but what if he wanted to be a dick and tried to say you purposely did it, in some states if things don't go right in court you could be convicted of a felony. Any business owners out there??? , they make up a vast majority of the felons in this county, through, mistakes, or trying to get away with something they shouldn't have, you know these guys, the ones who support and sponsor little league baseball and football and what not. Well every since you liberal Democrats elected a dim wit, draft dodging, wife cheating, power abusing scum bag into the white house, one of the first things he did with his crime bill was to lump all felons together, so the non violent, family man, who doesn't cheat on his wife, commit purgery, dodge the draft, but screwed up in business is lumped in with Pete the pervert, and if these certification laws pass, the family guy that committed a white collar crime, will no longer be able to teach. And what about the ex druggy who through the help of martial arts got clean and has stayed clean for the last 5 years or so and is know trying to help kids get off of drugs the same way. Where will he be. 7th, Of course you know me, I am always trying to get the angle. I say hey pass all these laws. make it illegal for anyone not in a major organization to teach. Tighten this shit up like a noose. Make it like the prohibition of martial arts. Hell I'll be bootleg'n like a Kennedy. Hell my privates ( lessons that is, eay lady's, Rock's married) will go from $50.00 to $500.00 an hour, and you will pay OH YES, you will pay. You ever see a drive by caining, its not a pretty site!!! My goal is 5 mil before I am 35, and this just might put me their. Hey maybe I too could buy the presidency for one of my kids through the use of ill gotten bootie, hey this is America, its possible. Rocky Pasiwk ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Datus Looks like my Datu crack got things fired up a bit... :) SuperDatu Ray Terry rterry@best.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #320 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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