From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #322 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 4 Aug 1999 Vol 06 : Num 322 In this issue: eskrima: Even more other uses for the Datu title eskrima: RE: Other uses of the Datu title eskrima: Kelly Worden eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #320 eskrima: Re: Ill-gotten bootie eskrima: Re: Bill to Regulate Martial Arts eskrima: Datu title eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #321 [none] [none] eskrima: AWSDA eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-99: Ray Terry, Inayan Eskrima, and Martial Arts Resource Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last four years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Ray Terry, PO Box 110841, Campbell, CA 95011 FMA@MartialArtsResource.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kirk_righter@peoplesoft.com Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:53:11 GMT Subject: eskrima: Even more other uses for the Datu title PJM said: <> Let's not forget the musical use: You say Datu, I say Datu, Let's call the whole thing off. See, you pronounce the first one with a short a sound, and the second with a long...well...uh...you get the idea... Kirk ------------------------------ From: "Katz, Mary Lou" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:21:11 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Other uses of the Datu title >From: pjm@buffnet.net >Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:43:29 -0400 >Subject: eskrima: Other uses of the Datu title > >I can not confirm a number of the historical uses of the title of Datu, >but here are a few I have run accross: > >SciFi: R2Datu >Shakespearean Tagedy: Et to Datu >Marching Cadence: Hup two Datu >Units of Euclidean geometry: Datone Datu Dathree >technical question: What does datu? >Business software: Is that a spread sheet or a datu proccessor? And let's not forget music: a-one-an-datu! Regards, Mary Lou Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess. ------------------------------ From: Mike_Worth@cfins.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:36:07 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Kelly Worden From: Filovir1@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 03:50:36 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #319 In the re:Datu responses several people made references to Kelly Worden and the fact that he had the title Datu. They also mentioned he was given this title by Remy Presas of the Modern Arnis System. I was wondering if anyone else knows anything about his martial background. Who else did her learn from? What ranks does he hold? Are his current methods (Comtech) an amalgamation of his previous studies? Thanks, Tim Tim, I think you're mixing people up. James Keating is the head of Comtech. Kelly Worden is head of the Natural Spirit Organization (It's his own blend of fighting styles and concepts). I know that Kelly Worden studied under Ted Lucaylucay, and Trained with Taky Kimura, as well as being a senior student of Remy Presas. That's about all I know... :) Oh, and BTW... I met her on the corner and my heart stood still... (all together, now)... DATU RUN RUN RUN, DATU RUN RUN...... :) Mike Worth ------------------------------ From: "Todd D. Ellner" Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:35:01 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #320 Crafty Dog writes: > If I am not mistaken the third "Datu" made by Remy Presas is someone by >the name of something like "Inoshir Shahala". I probably have mangled the >spelling-- no disrespect intended. Shishir Inocalla, I believe. ------------------------------ From: Just This Guy Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:41:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Ill-gotten bootie I think when speaking of the President, the use of the spelling "bootie" in that phrase may be correct. Speaking of driveby canings, and remembering the caning of that american tourist in Singapore not so long ago, I have to wonder if the guy who did the caning had stick fighting experience. What arts are practiced in Singapore? ------------------------------ From: Terry Tippie Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:32:05 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Bill to Regulate Martial Arts Regulation of fights or competitive bouts I'm all for. There have been some complaints about the actions of different boxing commissions but on the whole the results have been to increase safety for the fighters involved. On the other hand, regulation of the martial arts in the dojo is much more complex and is difficult to do fairly. I've never heard of a mechanism to do so that worked. I have heard horror stories from the guys in the U.K. and Europe about their experiences with local regulations on martial arts. In many cases, regulations seem to be to the benefit of large established martial arts organization (like Tae Kwan Do, Goju, Shorin Ryu, Judo) and specifically to the detrement of smaller organizations (like Thai boxing, FMA, Jun Fan, etc.) I heard stories of veteran Muay Thai fighters & teachers faced with having to do Karate forms and tests in order to get 'licensed' or else be faced with the risk of teaching ilegally. There is also the issue of one martial arts organization being used as a regulatory proxy over the other similar groups. In Switzerland there was one Muay Thai organization that was in the position of dictating to all the other Muay Thai people that they had to study, test and be certified under their system. The resulting mess did not improve the level of service or safety to customers, nor did it reduce the amount of fraud and abuse that was occuring. Rather, it tied up the time of a bunch of the senior people with meetings and hearings and ultimately gave them headaches. From a Muay Thai perspective licensing all schools under one organization is ludicrous because all the good fights come out of inter-school rivalries. Just put 'em in the ring together and let their shins do the talking. I don't have any information on how the FMA stuff was handled in different European countries. I would be willing to bet that it was even worse. Could any of the Europe-based FMA guys provide some background on the effect of local regulations? Thanks, Assistant Vice-Sub Datu in Charge of Frame Relay & ATM Switching (aka UUNet Whipping Boy), Terry Tippie Pacifica, CA ------------------------------ From: "big Joe A." Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:04:05 PDT Subject: eskrima: Datu title Mr. Eke, I have a few questions for you about your opinion on the use of the title Datu. First off how is using the title of Datu in ones ranking system disrespectful and going against Filipino culture. In the system I practice it is reserved as the last and final title bestowed upon those who have reached the highest ranking's in our system.(9th-12th degree black belt.) Those who in essence are the leaders of our system / community. Just as the leaders of the Filipino communities(barangay)were known as Rajah , Sultan , and Datu so are the leaders of the fma system I practice. The system I practice doesn't just come from or cover only one art from one region of the Philippines. It covers the three major regions of the Philippines. Hence it uses all three of the traditional titles each bestowed on us at a different level of training. From White belt to 4th degree black belt we study the art of the central region of the Philippines. Once you achieve your 4th degree black belt you have completed your training in the central region art and thus are awarded the title of rajah which is traditionally used to denote a leader of a community in the central region(i.e. rajah Lapu-Lapu). Then from 5th-8th degree we study the art of the northern region which when we hit 8th degree we recieve the title of Sultan which in the northern region is traditionaly used to denote a leader of the community. Then our last phase of training 9th-12th degree black belts the southern region. Upon completion of your 12th degree you are awarded the title of Datu. Get the idea yet of how our ranking system works. We don't use the dan system of grading we use a traditional filipino structure. Each degree is called hiblay sp? which is gray hair which represents experience and wisdom in the filipino culture. Which I am a part of. By the way in case you were wondering what my instructors qualifications are he is 7th generation in the arts and a former member of the Samahang ng Arnis ng Pilipinas as well as the founder and head instructor of the Modernized Philippine Martial Arts. I think he would qualify as a GM but he doesn't like the title of gm or even master nor do we call him datu. We simply call him Manong Norlie. Manong being a term of respect for an older gentlman in the filipino culture. Sorry If I went off but I got tired of reading all the crap about he calls himself this or he calls himself that. When it all comes down to it it doesn't matter what your title is. What matters is who is left standing and who gets carried away. If someone chooses to call himself super duper rajah datu sultan of the FMA who cares ? And what's the big deal? Well I just had to put in my $2.00 worth. Your friend in training, Big Joe A. P.S. I am only a lowly white belt so no titles yet. Who knows maybe some day I will be called Super Duper Fly Datu of The Universe. Yeah I think I like the sound of that. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: The3Shaws@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:28:32 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #321 In a message dated 8/4/99 9:37:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << In the re:Datu responses several people made references to Kelly Worden and the fact that he had the title Datu. They also mentioned he was given this title by Remy Presas of the Modern Arnis System. I was wondering if anyone else knows anything about his martial background. Who else did her learn from? What ranks does he hold? Are his current methods (Comtech) an amalgamation of his previous studies? >> My instructor is one of his students, I will pass this along to him and post any information he gives me. M.S. ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:41:54 +0800 Subject: [none] How, exactly did death matches begin. I have four specific questions >regarding this issue: >1) Were death matches planned (i.e., did 2 fighters challenge each other >with the understood goal being to kill the other fighter)? >2) Were death matches called such because of the fight's outcome (i.e., was >the name "death match" then given to the fight if one person was >incidentally killed in a confrontation)? >3) Was death simply an understood possible outcome of a confrontation >(i.e., >was the goal simply to go for an open target, fatal or not)? >4) Were death matches issues of self-defense (i.e., were they called "death >matches" only because a fighter was assaulted and defended himself or >herself with deadly force)? - ----------------------------------------------------------------- I think death matches began when FMA instructors in the US were running out of marketing gimmicks to push thier style. When the market was flooded with "undefeated" champions, the only way to better it was to be a multiple winner in these so called "death matches". As winners in these matches seem to be multiplying, we see the body count rising. (My teacher killed more people than yours, so there!) This is not to say that duels don't happen, but they are more spontaneous type affairs rather than the prearranged bouts that thier 'survivors' like to claim. Killing an attacker to preserve another life is one thing, but some 'Guros' make it seem like it was a sport. (Invented in thier overactive minds and empty wallets) Niloloko lang kayo. LSPIII ------------------------------ From: "lee drew" Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:56:59 PDT Subject: [none] Ray: What I did in PV was visit the cowboy gear shops around Mismaloya and, after buying a few latigos and machetes, asked where I could find someone to teach me the whip. The same person they sent me to, Silvestre Velasquez, also proved to be very skilled with the edged weapons. Ludwig: I have an actual copy of the manual, which was given to me by James Loriega of the New York Ninpokai. He purchased a few last year on his annual visit to Seville. The booklet is 54 pages, green paper covers, and measures about 4"x6". Numerous illustrations depict the tactics of the Barateros. The Baratero style of navaja fighting is actually one of the many practiced throughout Andalucia. There is also the Gitano style, based on the Gypsy knife, and the Sevillano style, used by more "polite society." leesensei@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ From: TaoArt@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:32:14 EDT Subject: eskrima: AWSDA FYI: 8th Annual AWSDA Training Seminar in Uniondale, NY (Long Island) from August 6 - 9, 1999 Up to 32 intense hours of quality training with some of the world=92s leadin= g=20 instructors. 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(Regular fee $350!! save $75.00)=20 Follow link to Modern Warrior for more information! Or call 516-226-8383 for=20 details. A percentage of the proceeds of this course will be donated to the=20 American Women's Self Defense Association. In order to participate, all males MUST be AWSDA members. Membership forms=20 may be submitted along with seminar registration form. New member fee is=20 $35.00 ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V6 #322 **************************************** To unsubscribe from this digest, eskrima-digest, send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com in directory pub/eskrima/digests. 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